Did Jesus say obviously " I am a God" in Gospel?

[~Amin~]

1.So when the high priest says in Matt 26:65: "He has uttered blasphemy ... you have now heard his blasphemy" that was just for show huh? Everyone standing there including any public witnesses, including whoever recorded the event for us, were just supposed to pretend it was blasphemy even though it really wasn't?


2."Who is this who speaks blasphemies? Who can forgive sins but God alone?" Luke 5:21

3."It is not for a good work that we are going to stone you but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God." John 10:33

1.were not the jews according to the New Testament
always trying to get Jesus in trouble with With FALSE
accusations? Well this was there False charge not
affirming christ claiming divinity.

2. you see in Islam we believe Muhammad also
informed certain people that they will be in
paradise, in other words they were forgiven,
not that Jesus, or Muhammad, forgave them but
that God Almighty revealed to the prophets who
was FORGIVEN.

3. If the viewers look at the next 3 verses they
will know what this means .

PLEASE STOP CHOPPING UP THE HOLY BIBLE AND LOOK
AT THE CONTEXT.

 

[~Amin~]

Can anyboby show us ANYWERE in the
Holy Bible ANY prophet from Abraham,
Moses, Joseph, Noah, David, Jesus,
were THEY said that God is three
person's in one Godhead.

Clear verses not obsecure, because this
shows the weakness of the trinity stand
point.

 

[blackout]

1.were not the jews according to the New Testament
always trying to get Jesus in trouble with With FALSE
accusations? Well this was there False charge not
affirming christ claiming divinity.

2. you see in Islam we believe Muhammad also
informed certain people that they will be in
paradise, in other words they were forgiven,
not that Jesus, or Muhammad, forgave them but
that God Almighty revealed to the prophets who
was FORGIVEN.

3. If the viewers look at the next 3 verses they
will know what this means .

PLEASE STOP CHOPPING UP THE HOLY BIBLE AND LOOK
AT THE CONTEXT.

Are we hinging our take on (the) "truth",
(of Y'shua's "GodHood" or not)
on the "accusations" of a brood of vipers?
(truth twisters with double forked tongues?)

Also....

Off the top of my head,
I think the translations I have read anyway,
all quote Y'shua saying things like....
"your sins are forgiven"
"your sin has been forgiven you".... etc

not "I have forgiven you, your sins".

Am I wrong about this?

What does it all really matter anyway?
He pointed the way....
for entry into the kingdom of God ...
here and now....
for eyes that see.

In the Kingdom of God...
we are ALL "little God's"....
in our birthright as co-creators.
Sons and Daughters of the Most High!

ALL ONE WITH THE FATHER,
as Jesus and The Father are one.

So instead of arguing to death
the "CAPITOL and lower caseness"
of our ONENESS in "G/god hood/head"....
I think it would simply be in everyone's best interest
to take Jesus' at his word,
and start moving some mountains.

ya know?

 

[~Amin~]

.

Off the top of my head,
I think the translations I have read anyway,
all quote Y'shua saying things like....
"your sins are forgiven"
"your sin has been forgiven you".... etc

not "I have forgiven you, your sins".

Am I wrong about this?

What does it all really matter anyway?
He pointed the way....
for entry into the kingdom of God ...
here and now....
for eyes that see.

In the Kingdom of God...
we are ALL "little God's"....
in our birthright as co-creators.
Sons and Daughters of the Most High!

ALL ONE WITH THE FATHER,
as Jesus and The Father are one.

So instead of arguing to death
the "CAPITOL and lower caseness"
of our ONENESS in "G/god hood/head"....
I think it would simply be in everyone's best interest
to take Jesus' at his word,
and start moving some mountains.

ya know?

Very Very Very True.

 

[rocketman]

1.were not the jews according to the New Testament always trying to get Jesus in trouble with With FALSE accusations? Well this was there False charge not affirming christ claiming divinity.

If it were a false charge they would not have had to use the set-up question. It may have been the answer they were hoping for, but the answer stands regardless.

2. you see in Islam we believe Muhammad also informed certain people that they will be in paradise, in other words they were forgiven, not that Jesus, or Muhammad, forgave them but that God Almighty revealed to the prophets who was FORGIVEN.

Read on: Jesus healed the paralyzed man to prove that he had the AUTHORITY to forgive sins. The OT is clear that only God can do that. Why else do you think the Jews called it blasphemy to say otherwise? The old prophets would sometimes announce that God had forgiven a sin, but Jesus was different in that he made no such announcement. Which of the prophets had authority to forgive sin? Jesus was more than a prophet then. He forgave the sins of the others because of their faith, BEFORE any sacrifice was made at the temple! If you know the Jewish law of the day, you will know that this was one extrordinary authority to claim as one's own.

3. If the viewers look at the next 3 verses they will know what this means .

You simply don't understand the non-negotiable monotheistic culture of the day. In the next few verses He did not deny it. He went on to justify it. If he was a regular prophet the first thing he would say if people thought he was claiming to be God would be "I AM NOT GOD!" in no uncertain terms. I think we can all agree on that.

Those who take Jesus explanation as merely meaning that we are all 'gods' of a type and that it was therefore just a storm in a teacup seem to overlook the next verse where they tried to get him again. They were mad because they knew what he was claiming. Nothing in his explanation reduced his claim of divinity. He went on to say that he was the Son of God, which meant 'God in the flesh' in that monotheistic arena. In John 3:16 why does he say he is God's only 'begotten' (born of a woman) son? Aren't we all born of a woman, except Adam who came from dust? Think about it.

Back to John 10, so yeah, he went on to say that the Son of God was one who was "sanctified, and sent into the world" v36. He often spoke of his life before he was sent into the world where he actually shared God's glory eg: John 17:24, which was also a serious no-no if he was just a regular prophet, (eg: Isaiah 42:8). The non-negotiable monotheistic culture of the day IS the context. But I guess you don't understand the context...

PLEASE STOP CHOPPING UP THE HOLY BIBLE AND LOOK
AT THE CONTEXT.

You call it Holy. Do you accept it as God's word? Or do you say it is corrupted?

 

[rocketman]

Can anyboby show us ANYWERE in the
Holy Bible ANY prophet from Abraham,
Moses, Joseph, Noah, David, Jesus,
were THEY said that God is three
person's in one Godhead.

Clear verses not obsecure, because this
shows the weakness of the trinity stand
point.

How does it show weakness? You need to explain.

Many of the old names for God were plural-yet-singular in nature. God says 'us' and 'our' in Genesis. When God was walking in the garden of eden who do you think was running the universe? God has always been able to be everywhere and anywhere he likes at one time. He is God after all. This is old news. Do you think we will get to know God in one simple briefing? Do you comprehend God completely? He still has many mysteries that you do not know. 'Trinity' is just a word after all. The central truth of the trinity is that God is one. You'd know that if you seriously studied the material that others have put up for you. If you want to get into a big discussion on the trinity start a new thread. Here's some more links to get you thinking 1 2

Ok, as it all relates to the OP, hopefully...

Micah 5:2 Predicts that the saviour born in Bethlehem would be divine in origin. "But you, Bethlehem ...though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from days of eternity."

Prov 30:4 Suggests that God is plural "Who has gone up to heaven and come down?... Who has established the ends of the earth? What is his name, and the name of his son? Tell me if you know!"

God swaps pronouns in Zechariah 12:10

In Isaiah 63:8-10 Reveals the personality of the Holy Spirit, who is 'grieved' by disobedience. The verb there is always used in conjunction with persons and not inanimate objects.

Isaiah 9:6 says that the "son born to us" will be called "..Mighty God, everlasting Father.."

The prophet Jesus layed out many basic concepts which were later caled 'trinity' by some.

Jesus says they all have the same name, not names, (this is extremely important, see Is 42:8) Matt 28:19 "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit." Three titles, one name. The name of-course is found in Ex 3:14 and again in John 8:58.

Jesus calls the spirit a 'he', not an it: John 16:8 "When he comes, he will convict the world of guilt.."

Jesus says the three of them work together: John 16:15 "All that belongs to the Father is mine. That is why I said the Spirit will take from what is mine and make it known to you."

Jesus is the holy spirit. John 14:16 says the Father would send another Comforter, the Holy Spirit, but in John 14:18 Jesus said, "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." So the spirit is Jesus in a different form, spirit not flesh.

And so on and on.

And yet Jesus said there is only one God: Mark 12:28-32.

So God fills heaven and earth and relates to us his way. Most christians believe that includes an up close and personal friendship with a man born in Bethlehem who history records ascended into heaven, who called himself by the divine name in John 8:58.

Here is some more reading for you.

Peace brother.

PS. Hey Amin, I thought you were supposed to be away for ten days?

 

[look3467]

Missing the whole point! Arguing things that do not pertain to the reason why it was elected that Jesus be accused as written.
The whole point is that Jesus had to be offered up, unbeknown to the high priests, who had the authority to rule over such matters.
The Gentiles were unwilling to sentence an innocent man to death, but were pressured by the high priests and the people that they should rather crucify Jesus over Barabbas.

All this was prophesied and had to be fulfilled to the letter.

Peace>>>AJ

 

[*Paul*]

Can anyboby show us ANYWERE in the
Holy Bible ANY prophet from Abraham,
Moses, Joseph, Noah, David, Jesus,
were THEY said that God is three
person's in one Godhead.

Clear verses not obsecure, because this
shows the weakness of the trinity stand
point.

IF you read the bible intelligently there can be no other conclusion. Tell me who is the one speaking in this verse:

Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

The one who is speaking has been there since the time of the beginning (from the time that is was there am I) This one who is from the beginning is being sent by The Lord God, Jehovah and by His Spirit. Read back a few verses and you will see that creation is the context the very beginning.(verse 13)

Tell me who is this one who is speaking and who has been there from the beginning but and is sent by Jehovah and His Spirit?

Let me give you a clue::

St. John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

1st John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

 

[Popeyesays]

Amin is having trouble reading that verse intelligently? The verse clearly establishes Jesus and God as separate.

"IF you read the bible intelligently there can be no other conclusion. Tell me who is the one speaking in this verse:

Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me."

Please note the blue typeface is yours and the red type face is mine.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Sola*5]

Pope eyes we trinitarians do believe the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit to be three seperate Persons there is no contradiction between that belief and our monotheistic trinitarian profession that these Three are One. So in that verse God the Father and God the Holy Spirit sent God the Son.

 

[Popeyesays]

Pope eyes we trinitarians do believe the Father the Son and the Holy Spirit to be three seperate Persons there is no contradiction between that belief and our monotheistic trinitarian profession that these Three are One. So in that verse God the Father and God the Holy Spirit sent God the Son.

That's a nice equivocation, but this was dialogue in a stressful situation, not carefully drafted theology.

Trinity was a carefully negotiated theology that had no existence at the time of jesus trial before the Sanhedrin and the Romans.

Regards,
Scott

 

[Sola*5]

That's a nice equivocation, but this was dialogue in a stressful situation, not carefully drafted theology.

Trinity was a carefully negotiated theology that had no existence at the time of jesus trial before the Sanhedrin and the Romans.

Regards,
Scott

Just because people didn't know it doesn't mean that God was not saying it all along, they also thought messiah would come as a conquering king against their enemies and had no idea that He would come die rise again and then come again, yet it is in the scriptures the whole time providing you believe that God does not contradict Himself.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Just because people didn't know it doesn't mean that God was not saying it all along,

Maybe not, but I don't think it says much for His communication abilities if He couldn't get His point across.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Yes. When he brought himself back from the dead.

Can Mohammed do that?

Shucks, Jesus couldn't do it with outt the help of God. All power he had was "given" to him.....

And ......NO......Jesus was not God nor did he teach such a concept.


John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

If Jesus truly "is" God then please tell us what he meant by stating he ascends to his father, God?????

 

[Dirty Penguin]

John 10:17-18
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.




Sure it does. Nobody else has the power to bring themselves back to life. Is this a power of a God or of a man?

Matthew 9:6
But that ye may know that the Son of man hath power on earth to forgive sins, (then saith he to the sick of the palsy,) Arise, take up thy bed, and go unto thine house.

9:7 And he arose, and departed to his house.

9:8 But when the multitudes saw it, they marvelled, and glorified God, which had given such power unto men.

They glorified God....(NOT JESUS)......Whom they also aknowledge GAVE power to Jesus.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

If you actually read the bible, Jesus explains why he doesn't claim to be God with words, it is because he leaves a much more powerful testimony of his divinity with his actions.

What I don't understand is why muslims always think they understand the bible even though they don't read it.

Why do people assume divinity is the same as deity?????

You can be divine without being a deity......:sarcastic

 

[Dirty Penguin]

In John 10:36, Jesus said, "Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" ​

Obviously, Jesus was being accused of blasphemy for claiming to be God's Son. (in the previous chapter, John 9:35-38, where Jesus had just healed the man born blind, and the Pharisees cast the healed man out of the synagogue).​

"Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God? He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him? And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshiped him."​

Only God can accept worship. This is just one small example.

I just want to point out there have been threads like this one before, which reflect an abysmal lack of comprehension of the Gospel and, more often than not, an unwillingness to study or research the matter with any semblence of intellectual integrity. So sometimes I just assume this is disengenousness on the part of the original poster, an attempt to negatively prosyletize, though I could be wrong.

If one is prejudiciously convinced (as in pre-judgement, to come to a conclusion without seriously considering an opposing view) Jesus was not the Messiah, nothing will ever convince them that Jesus proclaimed he was the son of God, even if one would go to the trouble of reading or studying the texts in question, and there is little that can be said to change that.

However if anyone is asking the question looking for an honest answer I would suggest obtaining any red letter edition of the first four chapters of the New Testament, and just reading the words in red which are Jesus' words for yourself, as well as studying the Jewish traditions and Torah objectively.

There are many scholarly resources on the subject available on the internet as well.

Did Jesus Claim to be God? contains an exhaustive study of Christ's claims to divinity, including the following individual studies:

• Jesus as the Wisdom of God
• The Son of Man Title
• Use of "Abba"
• Use of "I Say Unto You"
• The "I Am" claims
• "Son of God"
• Miscellaneous Claims

Respectfully offered for your consideration,
!Fluffy!

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


Please tell us Why Jesus will be ascending to his father, God???.....If he is God......


Well if they were worshipping Jesus (God as you assert)...Then who was Jesus worshipping?

Lu 22:42 saying, "Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me;
nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done."

Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

There's that "My God" again.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

In John 20:28 Jesus does not rebuke Thomas when Thomas calls Jesus "My Lord and my God".

Just another little thing to add...

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


Please tell us Why Jesus will be ascending to his father, God???.....If he is God......

20:17 is before 20:28. I suspect Thomas was not expressing it the way you're interperting it if Jesus has not ascended to (his father, God)...


Well if they were worshipping Jesus (God as you assert)...Then who was Jesus worshipping?

Lu 22:42 saying, "Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me;
nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done."

Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

There's that "My God" again.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

I would say absolutely, yes. The fact that he calls himself by the divine name in John 8:58 seals it for me. Anyone who understands the non-negotiable monotheism of Judaism will understand what he was saying.

Further thoughts..

The Jews of Jesus time had a very important scripture called the Shema,from Duet 6:4-9 which says: "Hear O Israel, the LORD our God is one LORD" Even in our time many Jews recite these words twice a day. It is hard to overstate how important this concept is to these people. Jesus would have known full well that any suggestion that he was even remotely of God would be interpreted as blasphemy. They didn't try to stone him for nothing.

Jesus had a chance to further explain/update or reject the shema but he did not. In Mark 12:29 when he was asked what the most important commandment is he says: "...Hear, O Isreal, the Lord our God, the Lord is one." So Jesus himself believed that there is only one God, (or at the very least that the 'parts' of God were in complete harmony.) Everything he said needs to be viewed from this perspective then.

The only 'begotten' son means the only one born of a woman, ie: the only instance of 'god in the flesh'. If the shema is right, and Jesus was bound by jewish law, then he equated himself with god, of which he believed there was only one.

In Matthew 26:64 Jesus directly admitted that he was the 'son' of god. If they were expecting the 'son' of god to be someone other than god, like, say, a carpenters son, then why did they then accuse him of blasphemy? (that instance of the term 'son of god' to those jews simply meant god-in-the-flesh; they only believed in one god remember)

In Luke 4:8 Jesus himself quotes Deut 6:13 which says 'worship the Lord your God and serve him only' - and yet later he allows Thomas to worship him. He also allows a another man to worship him in John 9:38. Remember, he is bound by the Shema.

In Luke 19:44 Jesus is quoted as saying "..they will not leave one stone on another because you did not recognise the time of God's coming to you." I don't think it gets plainer than that.

Another reason some say he had to be god is because whoever was to die in our place had to be both worth more than all of us put together and blameless, obviously - so the contract required someone from adams race, a race he entered into. Hebrews makes it clear he was not an angel in human form.

To the islamic gentleman who started this thread: sir, respectfully I say to you that many christians believe in only one god. They also believe that he was powerful enough to be able to be both fully man and fully god at the same time. Some find it insulting to god to suggest that he would allow himself to be human but we must accept that he invented humans in the first place, and that he fills heaven and earth, even the disgusting parts. Christians generally believe that god's character is such that he would do whatever it takes to save his children, even if that meant simulataneously becoming one of us.

The whole 'praying to himself' thing is not really an issue - it's 'what he would do if he were one of us'. Think about it.

In between Jesus deliberatley keeping his identity largely a secret throughout the gospels and our difficulty in comprehending how god could steer the ship and exist in a human body at the same time, no wonder this is a difficult subject.

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.


Please tell us Why Jesus will be ascending to his father, God???.....If he is God......


If he is God then who who was Jesus worshipping?

Lu 22:42 saying, "Father, if it is Your will, take this cup away from Me;
nevertheless not My will, but Yours, be done."

Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?

There's that "My God" again.

John 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Did you miss the part that He freely gave up His life that we may have life more abundantly?

Where in the 4 gospels does it show him doing this.

He went down praying, begging God to spare him from death. He ordered his followers to buy swords because he knew the soldiers were coming for him.

One of his disciples drew his sword and cut off the ear of a guard. It would apear the guards were too much of a force for he and his followers and only after all that Jesus went into custody......