Did Jesus say obviously " I am a God" in Gospel?

[~Amin~]

Can i start?

 

[rocketman]

Surely, he would not have taken from the glory of God and accepted worship from anyone.

How about John 9:38 then?

You hear people, even today, when surprised, say "Oh my God."

This is known as a chronological fallacy. Historical issues can't necessarily be judged by today's ideas. For the record, the Jews were very serious about how they used words such as those, and using them frivolously without purpose (as opposed to praising or asking for protection) was simply not done.

And Thomas may well have been ecstatic, but that does not change scripture which clearly says Thomas said it TO Jesus, not into thin air as an exclamation. But hey, I respect the opinion of anyone who says they could be wrong.

It just doesn't fit in with the Jesus that I read about in the Bible and Quran.

Have you compared Ex 3:14 with John 8:58 lately?

 

[rocketman]

Can i start?

:areyoucra When you understand what the trinity means. Otherwise I can't bear to sit through more of this..

Oh sorry, you weren't asking me...

 

[~Amin~]

:areyoucra When you understand what the trinity means. Otherwise I can't bear to sit through more of this..
Oh sorry, you weren't asking me...

Okay you to REMEMBER freindly no books.
I Point at a time.

 

[rocketman]

Okay you to REMEMBER freindly no books.
I Point at a time.

Oh, you were talking to me too? If so, then I'm not interested in a drawn out repeat of what has already been going on.

You make stuff up about Christianity as you go without a willingness to learn what most of them actually believe. That isn't debating, it's stating your opinion, which is a very different thing. This is a debate thread. You're not ready yet.

Sorry if I come across as being unfreindly.

 

[~Amin~]

Oh, you were talking to me too? If so, then I'm not interested in a drawn out repeat of what has already been going on.

You make stuff up about Christianity as you go without a willingness to learn what most of them actually believe. That isn't debating, it's stating your opinion, which is a very different thing. This is a debate thread. You're not ready yet.

Sorry if I come across as being unfreindly.

Fair enough

 

[~Amin~]

Ill start anyway.
Jesus answered him,"The first of all
commandments is: 'Hear, o israel, the Lord OUR God,
the Lord is ONE. Mark 12,29.
wasnt this the perfect time for him to convey
the trinity?
And also he didnt say ive been sent to the whole
world from his mouth did he?

 

[!Fluffy!]

Muslims believe that Jesus was the Messiah.

I doubt their version of Messiah has anything to do with Christ's version. And frankly at this point i don't care what the muslims believe. Based on the opening post this thread is not about what muslims believe, it is about what Jesus said about his divinity.

They just believe what the Jews believe - that a human who is also God is impossible and that the Messiah would not be divine. being the Messiah and the Son of God are 2 seperate things.

Not according to John or any of the other witnesses who wrote the Gospels, and not according to Christ the Rabbi and Messiah. Please provide sound biblical scholarship for your opinions if they are to remain credible.

it's funny how a lot of Christians don't even know that the Messiah wasn't going to be a God and that by doing so blatantly contradicts the predictions that Christianity was founded upon.

it's funny how we are expected to accept baseless rhetoric as truth...

There's also the whole thing about how in the original Koine Greek the gospels were written in, son and servant meant the exact same thing...

Now THAT is blatantly false. The concepts of son and servant were distinct. The word pais is to be thought of in the same way as the English word bear. If you don't understand the language you could confuse a large hairy animal with the act of carrying a load. Confusing son and servant in koine only works when one bends over backwards to ignore thematic structure and context, IOW bad scholarship.

 

[~Amin~]

How about John 9:38 then?

Theres two ways of explaining this,
1.In the court house the judge is refered to as your honour,
or your worship, this doesnt mean his God.

2.This verse is only in the trinitarian version,
but there are many other translations which the
verse is different, so lets use verses ALL christians use.:yes:

 

[!Fluffy!]

Ill start anyway.
Jesus answered him,"The first of all
commandments is: 'Hear, o israel, the Lord OUR God,
the Lord is ONE. Mark 12,29.
wasnt this the perfect time for him to convey
the trinity?
And also he didnt say ive been sent to the whole
world from his mouth did he?

I'm sorry Amin i am of the same opinion as rocketman. You're just not there yet.

I'm afraid it wouldn't do any good to respond to someone who hasn't extended the same courtesy to my posts yet. No sense going off on another tangent when you haven't addressed my points.

Also we are not discussing the trinity, we are discussing Christ's claims to divinity.

So far there has been nothing but baseless rhetoric from the anti-biblical folks, so there's not much to discuss.

 

[~Amin~]

I'm sorry Amin i am of the same opinion as rocketman. You're just not there yet.

I'm afraid it wouldn't do any good to respond to someone who hasn't extended the same courtesy to my posts yet. No sense going off on another tangent when you haven't addressed my points.

Also we are not discussing the trinity, we are discussing Christ's claims to divinity.

So far there has been nothing but baseless rhetoric from the anti-biblical folks, so there's not much to discuss.

Is it not true that even the christian's admit that the trinity is a
mystery?
with my love for both of you i think your trying to get away
from such POWERFULL biblical verses excepted by ALL
christians not a particular sect.

 

[!Fluffy!]

sorry i can't help it, i just had to respond.

And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him. King James Version 1611, 1769
NKJV - Jhn 9:38 -Then he said, "Lord, I believe!" And he worshiped Him. New King James Version © 1982 Thomas Nelson
NLT - Jhn 9:38 -"Yes, Lord," the man said, "I believe!" And he worshiped Jesus. New Living Translation © 1996 Tyndale Charitable Trust
NIV - Jhn 9:38 -Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.
New International Version © 1973, 1978, 1984 International Bible Society
ESV - Jhn 9:38 -He said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.
The Holy Bible, English Standard Version © 2001 Crossway Bibles
NASB - Jhn 9:38 -And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him. New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman Foundation
RSV - Jhn 9:38 -He said, "Lord, I believe"; and he worshiped him. Revised Standard Version © 1947, 1952.
ASV - Jhn 9:38 -And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him. American Standard Version 1901 Info
Webster - Jhn 9:38 -And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshiped him. Noah Webster Version 1833 Info
HNV - Jhn 9:38 -He said, "Lord, I believe!" and he worshiped him. Hebrew Names Version 2000 Info
Vulgate - Jhn 9:38 -at ille ait credo Domine et procidens adoravit eum Jerome's Latin Vulgate 405 A.D. Info

 

[~Amin~]

sorry i can't help it, i just had to respond.

And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him. King James Version 1611, 1769
NKJV - Jhn 9:38 -Then he said, "Lord, I believe!" And he worshiped Him. New King James Version © 1982 Thomas Nelson
NLT - Jhn 9:38 -"Yes, Lord," the man said, "I believe!" And he worshiped Jesus. New Living Translation © 1996 Tyndale Charitable Trust
NIV - Jhn 9:38 -Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.
New International Version © 1973, 1978, 1984 International Bible Society
ESV - Jhn 9:38 -He said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.
The Holy Bible, English Standard Version © 2001 Crossway Bibles
NASB - Jhn 9:38 -And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him. New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman Foundation
RSV - Jhn 9:38 -He said, "Lord, I believe"; and he worshiped him. Revised Standard Version © 1947, 1952.
ASV - Jhn 9:38 -And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him. American Standard Version 1901 Info
Webster - Jhn 9:38 -And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshiped him. Noah Webster Version 1833 Info
HNV - Jhn 9:38 -He said, "Lord, I believe!" and he worshiped him. Hebrew Names Version 2000 Info
Vulgate - Jhn 9:38 -at ille ait credo Domine et procidens adoravit eum Jerome's Latin Vulgate 405 A.D. Info

Dear fluffy i was laughing so much my family think im nuts.
I already answered this verse, But as a jewish rabbi, or a
christian preist, or a muslim imam, KNOW that you cannot
isolate a single verse. Because,
"But the hour is coming, and now is, when the TRUE worshippers
will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is
SEEKING SUCH TO WORSHIP HIM"(father).
And Also Jesus worshiped the Father,
he went a little farther and fell on his face and
WORSHIPED, saying, "O My Father. Mathew 26,39
he didnt worship himself did he?

 

[The Great Architect]

Did Jesus bring himself back from the dead? Or did God the Father resurrect him?


Wouldn't prove anything.

Islam never claims that Mohammed is a savior; only a messenger. In Islam, it is the Qur'an, the message of God, that saves. Also, Muslims would agree with you that there is something special about Jesus. Of all the people who have ever existed, only Adam and Jesus were formed by God's own hands. And only Jesus will return to judge us.

thank you for ending painlessly what could possibly have been a long and enragingly repetitive debate.

Anyway, if Jesus did not say he was God, explicitly, it was certainly implied by the Bible itself, and by His mission and actions.

 

[~Amin~]

Anyway, if Jesus did not say he was God, explicitly, it was certainly implied by the Bible itself, and by His mission and actions.

In other words he didnt Say Im God,
Thank you for the straight forward answer.

Okay is the word trinity in the Bible?
please give staight forward answer.

 

[The Great Architect]

I doubt their version of Messiah has anything to do with Christ's version. And frankly at this point i don't care what the muslims believe. Based on the opening post this thread is not about what muslims believe, it is about what Jesus said about his divinity.



Not according to John or any of the other witnesses who wrote the Gospels, and not according to Christ the Rabbi and Messiah. Please provide sound biblical scholarship for your opinions if they are to remain credible.


it's funny how we are expected to accept baseless rhetoric as truth...



Now THAT is blatantly false. The concepts of son and servant were distinct. The word pais is to be thought of in the same way as the English word bear. If you don't understand the language you could confuse a large hairy animal with the act of carrying a load. Confusing son and servant in koine only works when one bends over backwards to ignore thematic structure and context, IOW bad scholarship.

well, as it says in the Bible, 'oh no, you didn't! Slam!'

 

[The Great Architect]

In other words he didnt Say Im God,
Thank you for the straight forward answer.

Okay is the word trinity in the Bible?
please give staight forward answer.

not as far as I know, but Christ has only found me relatively recently. I'm not as learned as some of the others here. We might have to ' Google it'!:highfive:


Wait, you are from the Gold Coast! Let us not fight!

 

[!Fluffy!]

Originally Posted by rocketman
How about John 9:38 then?

Theres two ways of explaining this,
1.In the court house the judge is refered to as your honour,
or your worship, this doesnt mean his God.

2.This verse is only in the trinitarian version,
but there are many other translations which the
verse is different, so lets use verses ALL christians use

Originally Posted by !Fluffy!
sorry i can't help it, i just had to respond.

And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him. King James Version 1611, 1769
NKJV - Jhn 9:38 -Then he said, "Lord, I believe!" And he worshiped Him. New King James Version © 1982 Thomas Nelson
NLT - Jhn 9:38 -"Yes, Lord," the man said, "I believe!" And he worshiped Jesus. New Living Translation © 1996 Tyndale Charitable Trust
NIV - Jhn 9:38 -Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.
New International Version © 1973, 1978, 1984 International Bible Society
ESV - Jhn 9:38 -He said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.
The Holy Bible, English Standard Version © 2001 Crossway Bibles
NASB - Jhn 9:38 -And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him. New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman Foundation
RSV - Jhn 9:38 -He said, "Lord, I believe"; and he worshiped him. Revised Standard Version © 1947, 1952.
ASV - Jhn 9:38 -And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him. American Standard Version 1901 Info
Webster - Jhn 9:38 -And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshiped him. Noah Webster Version 1833 Info
HNV - Jhn 9:38 -He said, "Lord, I believe!" and he worshiped him. Hebrew Names Version 2000 Info
Vulgate - Jhn 9:38 -at ille ait credo Domine et procidens adoravit eum Jerome's Latin Vulgate 405 A.D. Info

Dear fluffy i was laughing so much my family think im nuts.
I already answered this verse, But as a jewish rabbi, or a
christian preist, or a muslim imam, KNOW that you cannot
isolate a single verse.

Then stop doing it. And NO, you didn't answer it.

please review my posts #107 and #114 and respond by quoting whatever it is you disagree with. IN CONTEXT.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him. King James Version 1611, 1769
NKJV - Jhn 9:38 -Then he said, "Lord, I believe!" And he worshiped Him. New King James Version © 1982 Thomas Nelson
NLT - Jhn 9:38 -"Yes, Lord," the man said, "I believe!" And he worshiped Jesus. New Living Translation © 1996 Tyndale Charitable Trust
NIV - Jhn 9:38 -Then the man said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.
New International Version © 1973, 1978, 1984 International Bible Society
ESV - Jhn 9:38 -He said, “Lord, I believe,” and he worshiped him.
The Holy Bible, English Standard Version © 2001 Crossway Bibles
NASB - Jhn 9:38 -And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him. New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman Foundation
RSV - Jhn 9:38 -He said, "Lord, I believe"; and he worshiped him. Revised Standard Version © 1947, 1952.
ASV - Jhn 9:38 -And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him. American Standard Version 1901 Info
Webster - Jhn 9:38 -And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshiped him. Noah Webster Version 1833 Info
HNV - Jhn 9:38 -He said, "Lord, I believe!" and he worshiped him. Hebrew Names Version 2000 Info
Vulgate - Jhn 9:38 -at ille ait credo Domine et procidens adoravit eum Jerome's Latin Vulgate 405 A.D. Info

And multiple instances of a verse penned by an unknown apologist more than half a century later proves what?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

To assert that the "New Testament" accurately reflects the position of the Jerusalem sect or its early leader(s) is a baseless faith claim.