So all the babies were evil?
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Did Sodom and Gommorah deserve to get zapped?
- Thread starter Desert Snake
- Start date
Ben Avraham
Well-Known Member
Not any one in particular but to the members of this forum.
I hope you'll understand if I wait until @Scuba Pete himself says what he meant. I think he has more insight into his thought processes than you do.
I'm not sure how to answer this. G-d evidently saw fit to destroy both cities and everything in them, that there weren't even 10 righteous there. I think a learned Jew would better be able to answer your question. Sorry I can't be of more help!
No. Firstly because of the arbitrariness of the term 'righteous' used in this context. Since we know from prior mass executions that 'not righteous' can simply mean 'does not worship the god of Abraham,' and I do not believe that warrants execution. Secondly because this is genocide, and sorry, but genocide isn't justified under any circumstances. It inherantly means punishing the blameless, eg. women who had no political power or authority to make change, or education to make informed decisions about change even if they had the power, members of society who couldn't even comprehend the dilemma let alone make a 'righteous' decision such as children, the mentally infirm, and people not in the city by choice. Political captives, slaves, et all. I highly doubt Lot was in any position to 'check on' every person in the city (including the detained) and I highly doubt the merit of his deduction as the story writers saw it.
So, in short, no.
In long. Noooooooooooooo.
So, in short, no.
In long. Noooooooooooooo.
There are really only two ways to answer the question:
- there were no babies in the city (or rather, therr were no more than 9 babies).
- there were babies in the city, but the babies were not "righteous".
Actually (and this is where a "learned Jew" might actually help), there might be a third: I see that the term is rendered "righteous person" in the translations I read, but I wonder it might have meant something closer to "righteous man" in the original text. This allows for a third possibility:
- there were an unknown number of non-evil women and children in the city, but God destroyed it anyway.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
The verses regarding divorce are in the context of divorcing, the act of divorcing /a spouse, and of course there can be reasons for divorcing as well; hence, no I don't think this is an equatable example. Only if you read the Bible in an illogical manner, would it seem to be.
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That's a very insightful reply that could be true. For instance, we Baha'is believe Noah's Ark was not a real event nor the crossing of the Red Sea. Also the creation in 7 days is not true scientifically, Christ walking on water and rising from the dead are not literal happenings according to our Faith.
There is so much we automatically assume is literal when it may be figurative.
Tell me more I enjoyed your explanation very much.
God is our protector.
Today, people have no qualms with drones bombing the hell out of Isis and no one cares how many are killed because we know their wickedness and evil.
God too knew and acted on wickedness in past ages for our own protection.
Speak for yourself. I care very much when civilian casualties (Such as babies, mentally inform, political prisoners et all) are killed in military strikes. I would not condone the wholesale slaughter of entire cities. That's genocide.
Incidentally, I would expect no civilian casualties from someone with the power to make universes. God's actions in the bible are nothing short of sloppy and careless.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
Then after Lot and his daughters left Gommorah they all got drunk and had an orgy, its there in the bible.
God is just. You can't apply today's laws to thousands of years ago. Things that were considered normal such as slavery at one time are now considered wrongful and evil.
You can't impose today's standards on thousand year old cultures. God would be in a far better position than any of us to judge what was best for us then and now.
The records may not even be wholly authentic as there are only I think two incidents throughout 8 religions which mention things like this but even then God makes it clear He is punishing people for evil and wickedness.
Servant_of_the_One1
Well-Known Member
The people of Lot deserved punishment because they were evildoers engaging in homosexual activities. But their biggest sin was Kufr(Disbelief).
Are people punished for their disbelief by God or themselves.?
For instance Christ taught to love one another and instead we hate one another and have two world wars and millions are killed. If we had obeyed Christ and loved each other would we have gone to war and caused all that suffering?
So isn't it us who bring upon our own suffering by turning against God's appeal to act noble and be good and love each other?
Servant_of_the_One1
Well-Known Member
Ironically Those who claim to love Prophet Jesus peace be upon him break the first commandment of Jesus which is worship God Alone.
Jesus is truly not responsible for the sins of the people of disbelief.
The Creator made simple rules, but for the breakers of the rules there is a day of reckoning.
God made hell as punishment for the breakers and the evildoers.
psychoslice
Veteran Member
I certainly don't see the story of Sodom and Gomorrah as literal, its a metaphor, its when we are in our lower carnal state, that we don't see what is truly within, when we are immersed in the senses of the body such as sex, we again forget our true inner Self, our connection to God.
Here's something I found regarding the Bahá'í views of the Old Testament.
“When ‘Abdu’l-Bahá states we believe what is in the Bible, He means in substance. Not that we believe every word of it to be taken literally or that every word is the authentic saying of the Prophet.”
Excerpt From: Hornby. “Lights of Guidance.”
“We have no way of substantiating the stories of the Old Testament other than references to them in our teachings, so we cannot say exactly what happened at the battle of Jericho.”
This also goes for Sodom and Gammorah and other stories. Can we substantiate these stories at all?
Excerpt From: Hornby. “Lights of Guidance.”
Psychoslice. I'll have a kilo of your wisdom please. Send it via express post!! Urgently required. Lol
Included is an extract from a tablet written by Abdu'l-Baha:
"As to thy question concerning the additions to the Old and New Testament: Know thou, verily, as people could not understand the words, nor could they apprehend the realities therein, therefore they have translated them according to their own understanding and interpreted the verses after their own ideas and thus the text fell into confusion. This is undoubtedly true. As to an intentional addition: This is something uncertain. But they have made great mistakes as to the understanding of the texts and the comprehending of the references and have therefore fallen into doubts, especially in regard to the symbolical verses."
Having said that there are verses about the infallible Divine inspiration of the apostles animating the sacred texts.
"As to thy question concerning the additions to the Old and New Testament: Know thou, verily, as people could not understand the words, nor could they apprehend the realities therein, therefore they have translated them according to their own understanding and interpreted the verses after their own ideas and thus the text fell into confusion. This is undoubtedly true. As to an intentional addition: This is something uncertain. But they have made great mistakes as to the understanding of the texts and the comprehending of the references and have therefore fallen into doubts, especially in regard to the symbolical verses."
Having said that there are verses about the infallible Divine inspiration of the apostles animating the sacred texts.