Didn't Satan Give Us Freewill?

[Gjallarhorn]

How did you come up with that comparison?

Free will is a joke. Either your life is determined by rules (determinism) or your life is not bound by rules (free will ). Random refers to anything lacking a pattern or rules. Free will therefore means completely random.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

The serpent was a serpent. It is as simple as that. The idea of Satan did originate until hundreds of years later.

So that just changes the question a bit; shouldn't we thank the serpent for freewill?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Free will is a joke. Either your life is determined by rules (determinism) or your life is not bound by rules (free will ). Random refers to anything lacking a pattern or rules. Free will therefore means completely random.

I agree, but this is hypothetical. I don't believe in the garden of eve either.

 

[Renji]

Christians always say Freewill is a gift from God, which confuses me, because if I remember correctly, it came from the Devil, not God, and God didn't want man to have freewill. If it came from the Devil, isn't it kind of disrespectful to your God to say it is a 'gift'?



Why Satan gave us freewill? In the Garden of Eden, he came as a serpent and tempted Eve to eat the apple, God didn't want her to and told her not to. She took the apple. Without the temptation, the will to eat the apple would not have happened.

Free will, as defined by the Church is the freedom to do whatever that is good according to his own determination/will, as opposed to what some would define it as the freedom to do anything. It would fit what St. Thomas Aquinas said: "Allow man to do good and he'll do it for the rest of his life. Allow him to do evil and he'll do evil." Since the devil wants mankind to fall (according to the Scriptures and the very reason why the Son of Man came), he won't give it. Would you give freebies to someone that you hate so much especially if you know that it would "benefit" that person?

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Free will, as defined by the Church is the freedom to do whatever that is good, as opposed to what some would define it as the freedom to do anything. It would fit what St. Thomas Aquinas said: "Allow man to do good and he'll do it for the rest of his life. Allow him to do evil and he'll do evil."

Hmm, I was told somewhere that it was the freedom to deny God.

 

[fallingblood]

So that just changes the question a bit; shouldn't we thank the serpent for freewill?

No. The serpent only asked a question. There is no suggestion that it imparted free will. Plus, it would have been a creation of God anyway. god created the serpent.

 

[Renji]

Hmm, I was told somewhere that it was the freedom to deny God.

It is different. There is a different term for that, I just forgot what it is.

 

[zenzero]

Friend SoA,

Agree with you!
Since man never had to make choices before Satan arrived and they used their free will to choose to eat the apple from the tree of knowledge.
Besides since God created everything, logically even Satan should be HIS creation?

Love & rgds

 

[Daviso452]

Free will is a joke. Either your life is determined by rules (determinism) or your life is not bound by rules (free will ). Random refers to anything lacking a pattern or rules. Free will therefore means completely random.

Not necessarily. What about a person setting rules for his/herself? That person is then bound by rules, but they are rules of self, so isn't that still free will?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Not necessarily. What about a person setting rules for his/herself? That person is then bound by rules, but they are rules of self, so isn't that still free will?

Very few people can say the truly live by their own rules. And those that do typically have a particular brain structure that allows them to do so.

 

[The Sum of Awe]

Not necessarily. What about a person setting rules for his/herself? That person is then bound by rules, but they are rules of self, so isn't that still free will?

They don't set rules for his or herself, well you'd have to define 'him or herself' basically, but it's all in the hands of their neurons' movement.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

Not necessarily. What about a person setting rules for his/herself? That person is then bound by rules, but they are rules of self, so isn't that still free will?

What led to the formation of these self-imposed rules if not something else? "Will" isn't without a cause.

 

[dawny0826]

Christians always say Freewill is a gift from God, which confuses me, because if I remember correctly, it came from the Devil, not God, and God didn't want man to have freewill. If it came from the Devil, isn't it kind of disrespectful to your God to say it is a 'gift'?



Why Satan gave us freewill? In the Garden of Eden, he came as a serpent and tempted Eve to eat the apple, God didn't want her to and told her not to. She took the apple. Without the temptation, the will to eat the apple would not have happened.

I don't think so, because the "floorplan" for sin was laid before the serpant entered the garden. Adam and Eve were instructed not to eat from the tree of knowledge. They were advised to keep away. They had the choice to keep away or eat from it.

 

[idav]

Christians always say Freewill is a gift from God, which confuses me, because if I remember correctly, it came from the Devil, not God, and God didn't want man to have freewill. If it came from the Devil, isn't it kind of disrespectful to your God to say it is a 'gift'?



Why Satan gave us freewill? In the Garden of Eden, he came as a serpent and tempted Eve to eat the apple, God didn't want her to and told her not to. She took the apple. Without the temptation, the will to eat the apple would not have happened.

How can Satan or Man go against Gods will? God would have to allow it.

 

[cablescavenger]

I am going for a Richard the Third, if you can tell me who decided that for me, let me know because I would like to thank them personally.

 

[Pegg]

Christians always say Freewill is a gift from God, which confuses me, because if I remember correctly, it came from the Devil, not God, and God didn't want man to have freewill. If it came from the Devil, isn't it kind of disrespectful to your God to say it is a 'gift'?

God gave mankind the ability to choose to obey or disobey...that is free will. It means they were not created like robots that did everything by instinct. They were told what they could and could not do and that is how free will exist. It exists because we have the ability to choose.

The devil used that free will against the man and woman by tricking them to choose something bad....something he knew would kill them. The woman said that if she ate from that tree she would die, but the devil assured her that she would not die, thus insinuating that God had lied to her.

Sadly she took his word for it and ate.

 

[Protester]

Christians always say Freewill is a gift from God, which confuses me, because if I remember correctly, it came from the Devil, not God, and God didn't want man to have freewill. If it came from the Devil, isn't it kind of disrespectful to your God to say it is a 'gift'?



Why Satan gave us freewill? In the Garden of Eden, he came as a serpent and tempted Eve to eat the apple, God didn't want her to and told her not to. She took the apple. Without the temptation, the will to eat the apple would not have happened.

First, one has to ask if God has the following three qualities:

OMNIPRESENT:

Omnipresent /Om`ni·pres´ent/ (?), a. [Omni- + present: cf.F. omniprésent.] Present in all places at the same time; ubiquitous; as, the omnipresent Jehovah. Prior.

OMNIPOTENT:

Omnipotent /Om·nip´o·tent/ (?), a. [F., fr.L. omnipotens, -entis; omnis all + potens powerful, potent. See Potent.] 1. Able in every respect and for every work; unlimited in ability; all-powerful; almighty; as, the Being that can create worlds must be omnipotent.
God's will and pleasure and his omnipotent power. Sir T. More.
2. Having unlimited power of a particular kind; as, omnipotent love. Shak.
The Omnipotent, The Almighty; God. Milton.

OMNISCIENT:

Omniscient /Om·nis´cient/ (?), a. [Omni- + L. sciens, -entis, p. pr. of scire to know: cf. F. omniscient. See Science.] Having universal knowledge; knowing all things; infinitely knowing or wise; as, the omniscient God. -- Om*nis"cient*ly, adv.
For what can scape the eye
Of God all-seeing, or deceive his heart
Omniscient? Milton. All of these definitions come from the Webster's 1913 Dictionary

Christians would say that. No one has free will but God, q.v.,Volition.

I would point this out to you from the Book of Job:

Job 1
6 Now it happened on the day when God’s sons came to present themselves before the LORD, that Satan also came among them. 7 The LORD said to Satan, “Where have you come from?”

Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, “From going back and forth in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.”

8 The LORD said to Satan, “Have you considered my servant, Job? For there is none like him in the earth, a blameless and an upright man, one who fears God, and turns away from evil.”

9 Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, “Does Job fear God for nothing? 10 Haven’t you made a hedge around him, and around his house, and around all that he has, on every side? You have blessed the work of his hands, and his substance is increased in the land. 11 But put forth your hand now, and touch all that he has, and he will renounce you to your face.”

12 The LORD said to Satan, “Behold, all that he has is in your power. Only on himself don’t put forth your hand.”---Hebrew Names Version

As you can see from what I emphasized, and from other parts of the Bible Satan doesn't have free will either, he can give but he doesn't have.

 

[1137]

Christians always say Freewill is a gift from God, which confuses me, because if I remember correctly, it came from the Devil, not God, and God didn't want man to have freewill. If it came from the Devil, isn't it kind of disrespectful to your God to say it is a 'gift'?



Why Satan gave us freewill? In the Garden of Eden, he came as a serpent and tempted Eve to eat the apple, God didn't want her to and told her not to. She took the apple. Without the temptation, the will to eat the apple would not have happened.

This story obviously is not literal first off. Since we are discussing a Christian POV and not Jewish, I will explain:

The story is not the serpent giving us free will, it is the Christian god taking it away. The serpent, tree of life / knowledge, all come from different spiritual systems, from ancient Egypt to Judaism. The Serpent is the Kundalini of Hinduism and Wadjet of Ancient Egypt. Christianity is pretty much the only system to take the serpent and make it purely evil. Other religions use serpents as good and evil (apep of Egypt gor example). Even in Judaism, Moses' staff turns into a serpent in Egypt. Only Christianity labels serpentine power as evil, and it is through this story. It is their god taking spiritual truth, freedom, knowledge, etc away from His followers and leaving them with with only Him.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

In the Garden of Eden example, Eve and later Adam required free will in order to choose not to do as god commanded, however just because the snake (whom I do not believe was Satan, otherwise the bible would say so) required them to exercise that free will does not mean that he gave it to them.

Mind you, in order to have free will, you have to be able to choose your actions, if you are 'free' to choose your actions, that means you free to act in such a way that contradicts god's desires for you. If that is the case, then you are either free to knowingly do so, which would require that we know what god intends (few people other than me would be so arrogant as to assume that) and choose not to do so; or else we would not know what god intends and therefore along with free will, God's real gift was ignorance (which given my name, I have to say that yes, I truly am a gift to all mankind)

 

[blackout]

Free will based on "Do as Mommy/Daddy tells you"... 'or else',

is not the same as Decisions made Based on Deeper and more Extensive Knowledge and Personal Understanding.