Died For Our Sins ?

[Zhakir]

I agree with all eight points that you have posted Zhakir.

I'm happy to know that .

I wouldn't know about that. I don't believe I am capable of saving anybody's soul. I am capable, however, of sharing the good news of Christ's restored gospel and giving people the opportunity to accept it if they wish.

The term "saving souls" is very common among the christian missonaries though,probably they have an explaination.

Yes, to the extent that through Him all will be resurrected and most will actually go to Heaven. (The truth is a bit more involved than my answer implies, but very few people will end up in Hell. My religion teaches that Heaven is big enough for all of us.)

Becuse there are over 162 references in the NT which warn of Hell,please refer to post #17.

 

[Katzpur]

I'm happy to know that .

With a few minor qualifications, I believe those things too. DavyCrockett and I believe alike.

 

[DavyCrocket2003]

Becuse there are over 162 references in the NT which warn of Hell,please refer to post #17.

I believe in Hell. But I don't think it's the Hell many people believe in.

 

[Zhakir]

I believe in Hell. But I don't think it's the Hell many people believe in.

This would mean that jesus didn't die for those people's sins.
Is there any criteria for those people ? new idiology for christianity i see.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Peace be unto you all
I have few questions about that subject.
1.Does the Bible say that jesus died for the sins of all humans ? If so, then does that include those who don't believe in Jesus (pbuh) as a messenger and atheists ? Though the Bible states that athiest and porn stars etc. will go to Hell .
2.Why do christian missonaries call there job as "saving souls" and "get people out of Hell torment to heaven" etc.,because if jesus (pbuh) died for all humans to let them enter heaven (Which we Muslims strongly disagree with).then why calling that as 'saving souls" as long as they are already saved ?.

Here is the simple answer. Jesus died for everone's sin. The requirement for entry into heaven is found here in the book of John chapter 3:

[16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
[17] For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

The only requirement for condemnation or eternal life in heaven is the belief (or non-belief) in Christ.

 

[sojourner]

Oh please, you westerners think you're so awesome... keep in mind that the Muslims were far more advanced than Europe for a large portion of history, and most of the things that Europeans are credited for inventing were invented first centuries before by Muslims...

What happened? I don't notice easterners with a space program, or advanced medicine, or advanced education, or equal rights, or democratic society. Not that we're "better" than you, but we have adpoted and taken to the next level things that you, yourselves could have taken advantage of, but have neglected to.

 

[sojourner]

Thank you
Cristians only then.One of the christians here in RF said that he doesn't even believe that I will go to Hell Looks like we have many ideologies of salvation,that leads us to my first
question.What does the Bible say about it ?(if it does say somthing about it) Or is it something made up.

The question isn't, "what does the Bible say about it?" The question is, "What does Christ say about it?" Since the Church (the assembly of believers) is the Body of Christ, I think we have to look at all angles, including, but not exclusively, the Bible. Xy is a many-faceted religion -- not as absolute as you may think -- or as some may lead you to believe.

 

[slave2six]

1.Does the Bible say that jesus died for the sins of all humans ?

2 Cor. 5:21 "God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God." The idea is more about becoming righteous or being reconciled to God ("God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them").

The idea that a bloody human sacrifice (or in the Judeo faith the sacrifice of animals) is necessary for the remission of sins seems to me beyond stupid.

Of course, the whole idea of original sin is nonsense, irrational, and can be proven to be false so the question itself is meaningless.

 

[slave2six]

What happened? I don't notice easterners with a space program, or advanced medicine, or advanced education, or equal rights, or democratic society. Not that we're "better" than you, but we have adpoted and taken to the next level things that you, yourselves could have taken advantage of, but have neglected to.

True. Frubals for that! However, the fact that they have not progressed has allowed them to maintain the same religion without much variance or digression for a very long time whereas Christianity has not been able to do the same simply because it has to also reconcile reason with its religious beliefs (to a greater degree than Islam at any rate). I'm not saying that this is good. Just making an observation.

 

[ayani]

Zhakir ~

to answer you first question, friend, belief in Jesus is the prerequiste for His dying on the cross meaning anything spiritually or eternally to that person. this means faith in the Jesus of the Gospels, who is the Son of God, who died on a cross, and who is bodily risen from the dead. Jesus died for the benefit of everyone, but this death and sacrifice is only meaningful in light of faith, and a relationship between the person and Christ.

people are not already saved, friend. being saved from hell and from eternal (and present) seperation from God means you have heard the good news about Jesus, accepted it by faith, have been changed by God's grace, and now follow Jesus in the Holy Spirit. it's not a message everyone will understand or accept, but it's a message worth sending out, and giving people the option to understand and respond to.

Jesus has commanded us to tell others about Him, and to make disciples of all nations. no one can force faith, but Christians can share the Gospel, tell others about Jesus, and let them know how to be reconciled to God through Jesus, and saved.

 

[Katzpur]

The only requirement for condemnation or eternal life in heaven is the belief (or non-belief) in Christ.

And if a non-repentant murderer or rapist believes in Christ? Seriously, I would love to see some biblical support for the notion that a "believer" can live any way he wishes and still end up in Heaven and that someone like Gandhi (who obviously acknowledged the existance of Jesus Christ but did not believe that Jesus Christ was his Savior) is going to end up condemned to an eternity in Hell.

I hope you realize, Zhakir, that not all Christians think this way.

 

[Katzpur]

The reward for sin, is death. Now, all men the bible says have sinned and therefore all recieve their reward for it. Death. No after life in a different place other than earth after death.

So if you sin you die.... Its obvious, you sin you die. The poor the rich the miserable, the happy, nobody escapes death. Nobody until jesus.... Anyway....so all gentiles sinned, all gentiles died. No afterlife in a better place then earth. This planet is where all men die, and their bodies are buried here which means this earth in its entirety is like a grave.

Heneni, how do you get around 1 Corinthians 15:22, which states, "For as inAdam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive"? If death is universal, so is the resurrection. I don't believe it is taught anywhere in the Bible that for some, death is final.

 

[MSizer]

Oh please, you westerners think you're so awesome... keep in mind that the Muslims were far more advanced than Europe for a large portion of history, and most of the things that Europeans are credited for inventing were invented first centuries before by Muslims...

And, eh, to answer the OP...
1.) I think, yes, that Jesus did die for the sins of all humans, but one has to acknowledge that he did to receive salvation. Otherwise it's like a present that you never open, or something like that.
2.) They are "saving souls" because they are informing the people about what Christ did for them. Unfortunately, ignorance of how to obtain salvation is not an excuse when it comes with God, as far as I know D=.

I want to defend the thing about science and Islam not going together. They don't. Nor does christianity, nor hinduism, nor any religion. They're all based on superstions, and science is not. It has nothing to do with western conciet, and everthing to do with the fact that men don't fly on horses from Mecca to Jerusalem overnight, nor do they resurrect after being crucified.

 

[sojourner]

I want to defend the thing about science and Islam not going together. They don't. Nor does christianity, nor hinduism, nor any religion.

I agree.

They're all based on superstions, and science is not.

Religion isn't "based on superstition." it's based in a world view in which Deity is the Source.

In fact, science was, for many years, itself, based upon such a world view. That's why science produced the flat earth theory.

 

[Heneni]

Heneni, how do you get around 1 Corinthians 15:22, which states, "For as inAdam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive"? If death is universal, so is the resurrection. I don't believe it is taught anywhere in the Bible that for some, death is final.

1 Cor 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

The scripture says that IN adam all die. The entire human race, was IN adam created IN adam so that as IN adam all would die.

That means we were all created IN adam, which is why IN adam, we all died.

In order to be brought to life, you needed a new father. You had to be taken OUT of adam, and put IN to christ, so that he could be your new father. Everybody that was placed IN christ, will be made alive again. Each in his own turn. On this earth.

Everybody that was created IN adam, were born onto this earth spiritually dead. Everybody that was recreated IN christ, must therefore be born onto this earth too, spiritually alive. That is what it means to be born again.

When was your spirit recreated in christ jesus? On the cross. As a child of adam, you had to die with christ, so that the second adam, jesus would give you new birth spiritually. But just like all that were born from adam was born onto this earth, in the same way all that were placed IN christ have to be born onto this earth. Each in his own turn.

The bible says that the natural man, comes before the spiritual man. The natural man, had a spirit that was dead, created IN adam, and therefore died with adam, spiritually when he sinned. The spiritual man has a spirit that is alive, made alive by the son of god, yet they have a body that is dead. (even though it looks alive)

As a human race all of us were created in adam, and died with adam when he died. But we were only born later. As a human race many (not all) were recreated in christ jesus, and died with him, so that when he rose from the dead, we would be raised with him, transferred out of the kingdom of darkness and into the kingdom of light. But we too, have to be born IN TURN onto this earth, just like all who died in adam, had to be born onto this earth.

 

[Peggy Anne]

jesus didn't die for me and my sins. He died because the people chose Barabas. I will pay for my own sins. I don't need to be washed in the blood of the lamb.

 

[Katzpur]

jesus didn't die for me and my sins. He died because the people chose Barabas. I will pay for my own sins. I don't need to be washed in the blood of the lamb.

Peggy Anne, I hope this question won't take this thread too far off track, but since there aren't all that many deists on the forum, I thought I'd just take the opportunity to ask you if you could give me some idea of what it is you believe about God. I'm wondering if most deists basically believe in a God that would roughly approximate the Abrahamic God, but without the ties to one of the Abrahamic religions, or to something more along the lines of one of the eastern religions' deities?

 

[darkendless]

I agree.

Religion isn't "based on superstition." it's based in a world view in which Deity is the Source.

I fail to see how this is much different to what was said above

I have always thought belief in God went hand in hand with special rules.

 

[Bick]

Peace be unto you all
I have few questions about that subject.
1.Does the Bible say that jesus died for the sins of all humans ? If so, then does that include those who don't believe in Jesus (pbuh) as a messenger and atheists ? Though the Bible states that athiest and porn stars etc. will go to Hell .
2.Why do christian missonaries call there job as "saving souls" and "get people out of Hell torment to heaven" etc.,because if jesus (pbuh) died for all humans to let them enter heaven (Which we Muslims strongly disagree with).then why calling that as 'saving souls" as long as they are already saved ?.

MY COMMENTS: Peace be unto you, Zhakir.

1. Yes, the Bible says that Jesus Christ died for the sin of the world (all humans).

In John 1:29, John the baptizer saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look! the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world." NIV.

We read in Romans 5:6-8, "For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ die for the ungodly.
For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." KJV.

"For Christ's love compels us, because we are convinced that one died for all, and therefore all died. And he died for all, that those who live should no longer live for themselves but for him who died for them and was raised again." 2 Cor. 5:14-15.

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come! All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation:
That God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them." 2 Cor. 5:17-19, NIV.

1. continuing: Yes, Jesus Christ died for the sin(s) of the world: which includes the worst vilest humans.
As for "athesists and porn stars going to hell"...where do you find that in a good literal translation?
Nowhere in a literal translation of the Bible does it state that.
Romans 6:23 states "For the wages of sin is death; but God's gift-of-favor is life age-abiding in Christ Jesus our Lord." Rotherham Emphasized Bible

All humans, the offspring of Adam, are dying. There will come a time when the dead will be resurrected to be judged for their deeds, some at different times and places:
the Church/body of Christ at the bema of Christ in the heavenlies;
Israelites alive at the end of the age when Christ returns to establish his Messianic Kingdom, judged on the earth;
the rest of the dead before Christ on his great white throne.

2. Unfortunately, missionaries and many preachers and theologians have been WRONGLY taught that while the soul is immortal, it can sin and needs to be saved. If not saved, it will spend eternity in hell.

It is my personal belief, based upon literal version of the Bible, that God is using the ages (epics) of time to show forth his purpose to redeem all mankind through the sacrifice of His Son, Jesus Christ. Read Ephesians the first three chapters; Philippians chapt. 2; Colossians 1:13-20; 1 Corinthians 15:22-28.

"The Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Genesis 2:7

NOTICE: A separate 'soul' was not joined to a prepared body. Man became a living soul when the breath of the spirit of life was breathed into his nostrils.
And so it is with every human being.

Since man is a living soul, a living being, he doesn't have some entity in him called a 'soul' which supposedly is 'eternal'.

The whole man needs to be saved, be made right; and when one believes in Christ and his dying for him, potentially his standing before God is that he is justified and has the righteousness of God.

 

[sojourner]

1 Cor 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. 23But each in his own turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him.

The scripture says that IN adam all die. The entire human race, was IN adam created IN adam so that as IN adam all would die.

That means we were all created IN adam, which is why IN adam, we all died.

In order to be brought to life, you needed a new father. You had to be taken OUT of adam, and put IN to christ, so that he could be your new father. Everybody that was placed IN christ, will be made alive again. Each in his own turn. On this earth.

Everybody that was created IN adam, were born onto this earth spiritually dead. Everybody that was recreated IN christ, must therefore be born onto this earth too, spiritually alive. That is what it means to be born again.

When was your spirit recreated in christ jesus? On the cross. As a child of adam, you had to die with christ, so that the second adam, jesus would give you new birth spiritually. But just like all that were born from adam was born onto this earth, in the same way all that were placed IN christ have to be born onto this earth. Each in his own turn.

The bible says that the natural man, comes before the spiritual man. The natural man, had a spirit that was dead, created IN adam, and therefore died with adam, spiritually when he sinned. The spiritual man has a spirit that is alive, made alive by the son of god, yet they have a body that is dead. (even though it looks alive)

As a human race all of us were created in adam, and died with adam when he died. But we were only born later. As a human race many (not all) were recreated in christ jesus, and died with him, so that when he rose from the dead, we would be raised with him, transferred out of the kingdom of darkness and into the kingdom of light. But we too, have to be born IN TURN onto this earth, just like all who died in adam, had to be born onto this earth.

I don't think this answers the question. If all are "in" Adam, then all are "in" Christ, as well.