Different Opinions....Who is right?

[cladking]

If you compare a human brain to a computer then you have no concept of biology.

Are you aware that nearly every neuron in the brain is either on or off and this is how computers work too?

 

[cladking]

It's the same thing, just using different words.
You could also say "best adapted" or whatever.

Once a circular argument is created most people then defend it with semantics.

How is it circular?

Every individual is fit. Killing a lot based on some arbitrary parameter is more akin to murder than evolution. Can you show nature suddenly begins killing large numbers of a species arbitrarily? Of course not and it is highly illogical to propose this happens.

Wait a second.... So on the one hand you say that you don't understand what consciousness is and that we can't model it, but on the other hand you keep claiming it plays a role in evolutionary mechanisms?

Give that man a cigar!

No idea what you are refering to.

The "theory" of evolution is not based in science/ experiment.

All individuals are equally fit.

But we can still assure billions starve to death in order to save a million old sick people.

Everything we do has consequences There was a time (think before Freud) that leaders were concerned with the greatest good and were responsible for consequences. Now days they believe there are too many people in the world and they are only responsible for being "politically correct"; they must say the right things.

If you ever read someone else's posts you might see the facts and evidence that show you are wrong but I'm not typing it out over and over so you can just ignore it. "Everyone is fit, change is sudden". Maybe I should make this my sig line until you address it.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Are you aware that nearly every neuron in the brain is either on or off and this is how computers work too?

Are you aware that computers aren't organic biological entities that reproduce with variation and therefor aren't subject to the laws and processes of bio-chemistry, like evolution?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Once a circular argument is created most people then defend it with semantics.

No semantics. I was giving you a synonym.

Every individual is fit.

False, but go on...

Killing a lot based on some arbitrary parameter is more akin to murder than evolution

Killing? Murder? What are you talking about?

Can you show nature suddenly begins killing large numbers of a species arbitrarily?

Of course not and it is highly illogical to propose this happens.​

I don't even understand what you are asking.
You're going to have to clarify a bit. A bit much.

I asked you how natural selection is "circular" or whatever.
You didn't even address the question. I have no clue what you are responding to.
Probably some strawman.

Care to try again?
What are you claiming is circular and then explain how it is circular.

Give that man a cigar!

A reword for exposing your argument from ignorance and bare assertion?

The "theory" of evolution is not based in science/ experiment.

1. the quotes around the word theory, puts you firmly in the camp of the scientifically illiterate

2. it is based on science, which includes -and is not at all limited to- experiment.

All individuals are equally fit.

They are not.

But we can still assure billions starve to death in order to save a million old sick people.

Has nothing to do with biological fitness in context of evolution

Everything we do has consequences There was a time (think before Freud) that leaders were concerned with the greatest good and were responsible for consequences. Now days they believe there are too many people in the world and they are only responsible for being "politically correct"; they must say the right things.

Has nothing to do with biological fitness in context of evolution

If you ever read someone else's posts you might see the facts and evidence that show you are wrong but I'm not typing it out over and over so you can just ignore it. "Everyone is fit, change is sudden". Maybe I should make this my sig line until you address it.

It's wrong.
Change is not sudden.
Fitness is not at all equal for all individuals.

The more you speak on this subject, the more you show that you simply don't comprehend what fitness in context of evolution is all about.

 

[Nimos]

Well there is "them" and "us"...who do you think "they" are? Watch the videos.....

Well hadn't watch that interview with Snowden, thought it was the original one regarding the leaks. Anyway have watched it now.

I understand his concerns, but this is not really anything new, surveillance have been there for a long time to track where people are. That it can be done through the phone is obviously something that is made possible because of how they work. But you are already being tracked on the internet and have been for a long time, whenever you go and buy something with your credit card, police can get access to that and see where you used it. I don't like all this tracking either and obviously there need to be rules regarding how it can be used etc.

But it is not something new, the scale of it might be, as a result of the mobile phones.

So Im still not sure who they are, assume that its the varies governments and companies which see a need for this information, but these employ normal people as well, new politicians are joining and so forth. So im not really sure who you want to point fingers at, because its the system that is broken, but again it have been for a long time, I will be the first one to back that up.

But I think he is greatly mistaken if he think that all countries are turning totalitarian due to this.

What you are saying sort of make it sound like there is this small group of people hiding in secret somewhere pulling the strings, trying to take over the world. When the fact is that politics, probably ain't a lot different from what our discussion is here. They are people as well, with different ideas, believes, goals etc. Why do you think they have such a hard time working out a solution to solve the climate change, despite almost 100% of all climate related scientists telling them that we are heading for something really bad. How of Earth do you think that they will ever agree to one unified rule under the UN?

The single world government that is coming, will be given power and authority by all the nations on earth.

The UN is not going to rule the world, The success of the UN is fairly limited to be honest, except when it comes to humanitarian help.

As long as you have 5 countries that can throw down veto whenever they feel like it, it is not very effective. Do you honestly think that the US, Russia and China can agree on anything?

We will lose all the freedoms that anyone has ever fought for.

What freedom are you talking about? Free speech? Do you imagine that the US is going to be like North Korea or something?

We are facing a crisis with unprecedented impact on the whole world....a pandemic that has brought the world to its knees in so many ways. Life has been altered for everyone.

Economically it have been rough that's for sure, total death count so far is not really that high in comparison to so many other things. But it is a crisis and one that our global system is ill equipped to handle, because it doesn't, and never have been prioritizing human wellbeing over anything else. But there is not a single person behind this, it have evolved into this over a very long time, with no one really caring to try to change it, well the socialists tried, until the capitalists got that thrown in the gutter.

Its not just about companies getting hacked....it is about our personal privacy being invaded in the worst ways. Our activities being monitored and our contacts being scrutinized and used against us. Big Brother is rising up....with the technology he has been waiting for.

Big brother is already here and have been for a long time, its nothing new.

Killing off God suits their agenda...and its plain to see that God is dying in the hearts and minds of so many.

This has nothing to do with God or religion, its about money, resources and power. It doesn't matter if God is alive or not, look how convinced people are of their religion and their beliefs, why not simply use that to control them, it doesn't cost anything, you just have to convince them? And for the majority of them they don't even care about proofs
Why wouldn't a politician go all in on the religious agenda, rather than trying to ruin God, its far easier to pretend to be a believer than it is to convince a believer that they might be mistaken. In fact its very difficult to convince anyone of anything if they are not objectively interested in examining the evidence, doesn't need to have anything to do with religion.

 

[SkepticThinker]

The long replies are a tactic to overwhelm, since you have no substance that holds up. They are not in response to other long posts. They are your standard overload.

I expect believers to be honest. I keep hoping that those opposed to science based on evidence will realize their need to be too.

The good old Gish Gallop.

 

[cladking]

Are you aware that computers aren't organic biological entities that reproduce with variation and therefor aren't subject to the laws and processes of bio-chemistry, like evolution?

Are you aware that if they were biological organisms they's each be a little different and that all of a given type and manufacture would be equally fit?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Wow, what a desperate roll of responses there @Wild Fox ......All protestations...but where's your "evidence"?

Because we can't accept suggestions or assertions as facts....please give us your personal proof that what you believe is actually true. We're all ears....no maybe's....just cold hard facts that are substantiated by real evidence that life came out of the primordial soup and transformed itself into all the living things we see on planet Earth, both past and present......not suggestions based on science's wishful thinking, and of course, identifying all those "common ancestors" that appear to be in hiding at present. Not even needing to touch abiogenesis.

IMO, the theory of evolution is of itself, a misrepresentation of the evidence. If it doesn't fit...fudge it. Suggest something and make it sound like a fact.....but we all know that there are no facts....nothing concrete to bet your life on.

Just because someone immerses themselves in a subject doesn't mean that they have an objective grasp of that subject. In fact, it often works against having an objective view because of refusing to even examine any evidence to the contrary......it can also result in having a very biased, one-sided slant on things. Isn't that what evolutionists accuse us of doing? Are you guys guilty of the same offense?

I understand why evolutionists must believe that they are correct, because the opposing view may lead somewhere that they are not prepared to go....I wonder if they might be a bit apprehensive about that considering what happens if they are correct, (things continue on as they are and the world gets more and more secular and less and less moral) compared with what happens if the opposing view is correct......? (The Creator gets to exercise his power to correct all the things we have messed up down here, including dispatching all who oppose and disrespect him.)

"Methinks thou protesteth too much"....

More straw madam? Why yes indeed. Life did not transform itself. Nothing in science says this.

All this emotional appeal, long on words and short on logic, reason and evidence. How do you do it darling?

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Well there is "them" and "us"...who do you think "they" are? Watch the videos.....



The single world government that is coming, will be given power and authority by all the nations on earth. They will hold power over all of us....and we will have no say in the matter. We will lose all the freedoms that anyone has ever fought for. Totalitarian rulerships do not respect liberty and freedom.....only enforced compliance.

We are facing a crisis with unprecedented impact on the whole world....a pandemic that has brought the world to its knees in so many ways. Life has been altered for everyone.



The weapons do not have to be nuclear.....a club in the hand of someone in authority who does not respect your freedom is enough.....and a virus can also be used as a weapon. This will not be over any time soon. Continuing waves of this virus are predicted. It has already crippled the world....how will it survive...? Wait and see.



Its not just about companies getting hacked....it is about our personal privacy being invaded in the worst ways. Our activities being monitored and our contacts being scrutinized and used against us. Big Brother is rising up....with the technology he has been waiting for.



Religion is hand in glove with politics....rotten to the core...a very unholy alliance. But it will be seen as an impediment to control and dispensed with. Killing off God suits their agenda...and its plain to see that God is dying in the hearts and minds of so many.



The change that is coming will be the last human rulership on this earth. That is what the Bible predicts. It is amazing to watch prophesy being fulfilled....

Thank you for that recap of one step beyond.

Anything here that has to do with the OP?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Corrected...? When was there a correction? Did I miss it?

I saw no irrefutable evidence offered to support the validity of your theory, so where was the correction....?
A disagreement is not a correction......You crack me up...

So.
Many.
Corrections.
Over.
And.
Over.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Wow, what a desperate roll of responses there @Wild Fox ......All protestations...but where's your "evidence"?

Because we can't accept suggestions or assertions as facts....please give us your personal proof that what you believe is actually true. We're all ears....no maybe's....just cold hard facts that are substantiated by real evidence that life came out of the primordial soup and transformed itself into all the living things we see on planet Earth, both past and present......not suggestions based on science's wishful thinking, and of course, identifying all those "common ancestors" that appear to be in hiding at present. Not even needing to touch abiogenesis.

IMO, the theory of evolution is of itself, a misrepresentation of the evidence. If it doesn't fit...fudge it. Suggest something and make it sound like a fact.....but we all know that there are no facts....nothing concrete to bet your life on.

Just because someone immerses themselves in a subject doesn't mean that they have an objective grasp of that subject. In fact, it often works against having an objective view because of refusing to even examine any evidence to the contrary......it can also result in having a very biased, one-sided slant on things. Isn't that what evolutionists accuse us of doing? Are you guys guilty of the same offense?

I understand why evolutionists must believe that they are correct, because the opposing view may lead somewhere that they are not prepared to go....I wonder if they might be a bit apprehensive about that considering what happens if they are correct, (things continue on as they are and the world gets more and more secular and less and less moral) compared with what happens if the opposing view is correct......? (The Creator gets to exercise his power to correct all the things we have messed up down here, including dispatching all who oppose and disrespect him.)

"Methinks thou protesteth too much"....

That is hilarious. This entire thread is an emotional protest based on nothing with posts that are way too much in size, content and effort. Well, not too much on facts and evidence. All a protest based on the doctrine of a sect and one interpretation of a book that can be and is interpreted in many ways.

It is rich that you point your bill at others and claim they are doing what your entire OP is based on. Rich. Ironic. Hypocritical. Take your pick. All apply.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Good grief. ...you missed the point entirely....its got nothing to do with nuclear weapons.
If you have strong religious believers in the world, they will fight for God to the last drop of their blood. No weapon will scare them into submission if they believe that God is on their side....look at the religious wars of the past centuries. God is a supreme power in the minds of those who believe in him...man is puny by comparison. They are way more afraid of God than of man.

But when you destroy God, you destroy HIS power. That means that there is nothing but man's power to threaten them. They will introduce their totalitarian rulership and the whole world will be subject to their rigid laws and cruel enforcement. Our every move will be monitored as well as our communications. This is already happening....we have been warned about this for some time now, by those who should know. Have you ever listened to interviews with Edward Snowden?

Little wonder...it had nothing to do with what I was talking about.....please watch the videos if you really want to understand.....

Well, we've already seen what believers do when they are in charge. I'll take logic and reason over that, any day of the week. A few hundred years ago you'd be claiming that I was a heretic and murdering me for it. No thanks!

 

[cladking]

Killing? Murder? What are you talking about?

What do you mean, what am I talking about.

If you keep adding a chemical to an environment until half of a species is dead what you get are those individuals more resistant to the effects of that poison. This is not evolution; it is murder.

I asked you how natural selection is "circular" or whatever.

I said you belief in evolution is a circular argument.

2. it is based on science, which includes -and is not at all limited to- experiment.

There can be no theory without experiment.

This is the nature of our science. You can't change this by consensus, observation, logic, or decree. It is a simple fact and no experiment has ever shown a gradual change in species caused by "survival of the fittest". You will ignore every single idea here and concentrate instead on semantics and word play. I suppose you can't understand me. I suppose once you order your beliefs in some way it becomes almost impossible to see new evidence or understand new logic.

QUOTE="TagliatelliMonster, post: 6659934, member: 65929"]They are not.[/QUOTE]

See my sigline.

Nature does not intentionally create sick, weak, and lame. These are events rather than conditions. Like everything in life they occur suddenly. Yiou just ignore facts and every observation that fails to fit your beliefs.

Has nothing to do with biological fitness in context of evolution

Humans no longer are "evolving". At least not in any natural way. We are becoming slower, dim witted, and less able to think.

Fitness is not at all equal for all individuals.

Individuals are a basket of abilities and potentialities. Where some would succeed others will fail. In almost any situation some will flourish. When you say some are more "fit" you are talking about a given environment and not a single individual. You see "rabbits" rather than a single individual.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Corrected...? When was there a correction? Did I miss it?

I saw no irrefutable evidence offered to support the validity of your theory, so where was the correction....?
A disagreement is not a correction......You crack me up...

The corrections are to all the emotional appeals and straw man arguments that you throw out on here. I saw them. Others have too. We do not live in denial. It puts blinders on you.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Well, we've already seen what believers do when they are in charge. I'll take logic and reason over that, any day of the week. A few hundred years ago you'd be claiming that I was a heretic and murdering me for it. No thanks!

Once a certain level of fanaticism is reached, the latter is often the next and final step.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

It's the same thing, just using different words.
You could also say "best adapted" or whatever.

In short, those most likely to survive and reproduce, will most likely be the ones to survive and reproduce.
Kind of insane that it needs further elaboration and / or that such a rather obvious thing needs to be explained.



???

How is it circular?




What are you talking about?



Wait a second.... So on the one hand you say that you don't understand what consciousness is and that we can't model it, but on the other hand you keep claiming it plays a role in evolutionary mechanisms?

So what is its role, and how do you know?
I am especially interested in the "how do you know" part - especially since you've just acknowledged that you don't understand it nore can model it. Which kind of raises the questions how you could possible know it then.........


As I said before: if you think there are factors / variables not included in the evolutionary mechanism that SHOULD be included.... Then make your case. Don't just assert it. Name the things you think are factors AND demonstrate how they manifest and affect evolutionary mechanisms.



No idea what you are refering to.



No.
Some are more fit then others.
Some are less fit then others.

And that's what natural selection works on.




No, they aren't.



It has nothing to do with "evil" or "good" and everything with how well an organism thrives in a certain habitat as compared to its peers.

Why you bring up "murder" in this context is also a complete mystery.

An educated guess tells me that you really have no clue what "fit" actually means in this context.

The understanding of biological fitness is definitely missing. It is straw man arguments. Survival of the fittest is archaic and no longer used as a metaphor for fitness by biologists and has not been for nearly a century.

I took a ride on this train a long while back on different threads. It wasn't as fun as Ozzy's but pretty much is the same thing.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Indeed.

What it ends up in here, is a serious case of projection.

Like I said previously: they have to drag science down to their level of make-belief, just to be able to pretend as if both positions are on "equal footing".

I also love how they have a habbit of tell "evolutionists" that they believe evolution "on faith", as if that's a bad thing and a good reason why it shouldn't be taken seriously.

I off course agree that faith based beliefs are a bad thing and shouldn't be taken seriously.
The irony and projection though.... is amazing.

Something about glass houses and bricks, comes to mind.

One of the underlying themes here is based on the notion that science is at fault and responsible for how knowledge is used. It is a false connection, but one that is persistent in the eyes of deniers and conspiracy theorists.

The entire world view we are seeing supported here is based on people that accept claims without evidence and on belief alone. They are told Satan is a fat cat, cigar smoking CEO of the world, running government and large corporations and they accept that without review. From there, any conspiracy theory can be summoned up. To me it is the worst sort of behavior and condones the removal of responsibility for the directions taken in this world. We could get deep into that discussion, but it is sufficient to recognize that all the arguments here are simply assertions based on emotional reactions and sect doctrine and not on evidence.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Good grief. ...you missed the point entirely....its got nothing to do with nuclear weapons.
If you have strong religious believers in the world, they will fight for God to the last drop of their blood. No weapon will scare them into submission if they believe that God is on their side....look at the religious wars of the past centuries. God is a supreme power in the minds of those who believe in him...man is puny by comparison. They are way more afraid of God than of man.

But when you destroy God, you destroy HIS power. That means that there is nothing but man's power to threaten them. They will introduce their totalitarian rulership and the whole world will be subject to their rigid laws and cruel enforcement. Our every move will be monitored as well as our communications. This is already happening....we have been warned about this for some time now, by those who should know. Have you ever listened to interviews with Edward Snowden?

Little wonder...it had nothing to do with what I was talking about.....please watch the videos if you really want to understand.....

If their faith is strong, they would not have to resort to the tactics I see being employed here.

I have strong doubts that understanding can come from watching those indoctrination films, since I am not seeing understanding employed by you on this thread.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

The good old Gish Gallop.

It is a textbook example. For volume at least.

 

[dad]

Or pressures in Midgard, Middle Earth or Winterfell.
Or the pressures that existed before Last Thursday.

One would need some grasp on reality. Some folks stamp their feet and claim that unless we accept the beliefs of so-called science, we might as well accept nothing. We get it.