Different Opinions....Who is right?

[gnostic]

Our metaphysics is based on ideas and abstractions just like our language. We can easily spell it out since it is simply "observation > experiment". Every part of this is conceptualized in language and abstraction and some individuals have put great thought into the nature of our metaphysics;

https://www.hrstud.unizg.hr/_downlo...etaphysical_Foundations_of_Modern_Science.pdf

But ancient metaphysics was invisible to Homo Sapiens (wise men) who still survived at that time. It was invisible because it was language itself. Science was "observation > logic". These people didn't even "think" and had no words to express "thought" or any abstraction at all. How could an individual who didn't think even know that science and metaphysics underlie all progress and invention? Complex language is the ladder used to climb onto the shoulders of giants but if you lack abstraction then you lack the ability to see this. Even we modern people tend to believe that human success is based on opposable thumbs, fire, the printing press, internet, genius, or "science" rather than the complex language and abstractions used to study nature and frame it in models even the dim witted or babies can understand. We are Homo Omnisciencis and don't need no stinkin' shoulders because we have already lifted ourselves up by the boot straps. We see what we believe and ancient people could see only what they understood. We see reality in terms of belief and they saw it in terms of all human knowledge (which was limited at that time). It is this that separates man from animals, from nature, and from "God". We are a confused version Homo Sapiens who believe people were once superstitious but we're all better now. When God confused the language it STAYED confused and it is still confused.

No, cladking.

You stated repeatedly (back in Ancient Reality thread) that there were no literal word that explicitly say BELIEF before 4000 years ago or 2000 BCE (the supposed date of your Tower of Babel), therefore no “religious belief” exist, no superstitions, no cults, no religions.

If that’s true, then the literal word “metaphysics” don’t exist before 4000 years ago, then METAPHYSICS don’t exist. Metaphysics was a word coined for the 4th century BCE Greek philosophy, by Aristotle, literally meaning “beyond physics”.

And since you continued to use Old Kingdom (OK) Egyptian hieroglyphs of Pyramid Texts (PT) as example of this Ancient Language, there are no hieroglyphic word of “metaphysics” anywhere in PT.

You keep telling us, that the Ancient Language is literal, the context is literal, but no one understand the Ancient Language, therefore the Pyramid Texts cannot be translated.

I find it ironic that you tell me that translators cannot use the Egyptian hieroglyphs and (Koine) Greek translations of the decrees written on stone stelae during the Ptolemaic dynasty (eg Decrees of Canopus, Raphia Decrees, Rosetta Stone Decrees, plus copies), used to translate texts of Old Kingdom, Middle Kingdom, New Kingdom and Late Period hieroglyphs.

And yet, you used words that never existed ANYWHERE in 3rd millennium BCE, like Genesis “Tower of Babel” and “Nephilim” that don’t exist until 7th century BCE or later, or like Greek “metaphysics” in the 4th century BCE.

The Genesis was allegedly attributed to Moses the Lawgiver, who supposed freed the Hebrews around 1397 BCE, as its author. The only Robles with that, there are no evidence (literary evidence, such as finding scrolls, parchments, stone or clay tablets) that writings of Genesis and Exodus existed in the late 2nd millennium BCE, not in Late Bronze Age in Egyptian hieroglyphs, Canaanite cuneiform or Hebrew alphabets.

In fact, Hebrew alphabets don’t exist until 10th century BCE (eg Zayit Stone and Gezer Calendar). Genesis and Exodus were probably never written until King Josiah’s reign in mid to late 7th century BCE.

So if Genesis was only written in the mid 1st millennium BCE, then how would you know that the Nephilim and Tower of Babel exist in the Early Bronze Age (prior to 2000 BCE).

If we really go by your logic, if we cannot use Greek translation of Egyptian hieroglyphs to translate Old Kingdom Pyramid Texts, then by that same logic, we should be able to use 1st millennium BCE Nephilim and Tower of Babel in Old Kingdom Pyramid Texts.

What you are doing is basically anachronistic. Words that exist only in later period, you are trying to make exist in older periods (Old Kingdom Egypt) when none of these words (metaphysics, Nephilim, Tower of Babel).

So basically it is double standard, in which you can make any silly excuses to support your personal opinions.

 

[cladking]

Rather than addressing the meaning of what others say you are still addressing the meanings of the individual words. You are making semantical arguments rather than arguments based on logic and evidence relevant to the actual argument.

What you are doing is basically anachronistic. Words that exist only in later period, you are trying to make exist in older periods (Old Kingdom Egypt) when none of these words (metaphysics, Nephilim, Tower of Babel).

It is quite the opposite. You and archaeologists are taking later ideas and pounding them into older times. Since later people are just like everyone else and superstitious (Homo Omnisciencis) you are assuming earlier people must have been superstitious just as we are. So you ignore the fact that their language had no words for "thought" or "belief" and no abstractions at all!!!! How can this be ignored??? We know everyone is exactly alike and everyone operates on their beliefs so we assume this must apply to ancient people as well despite the fact the only writing appears to us as gobbledty gook!!! Anatomically there is no visible difference detected in the bodies of pyramid builders and the authors of the "book of the dead" so of course they must be exactly the same species and the older ones are just a little bit smaller, dumber, and more superstitious than we. Every one knows the fit survive and evolution proceeds at a glacial pace so IT'S SIMPLY IMPOSSIBLE THAT PYRAMID BUILDERS WERE SUBSTANTIALLY DIFFERENT.

All of modern science fits together like a well oiled machine where ancient science fit like a hand in a glove. Our science fits not our hand or our individual natures (God) but rather it fits our definitions and axioms. It fits the metaphysics whereby it was invented. It is reductionistic in a world where not even the lab can really be removed from reality and all the forces that operate on everything all the time. These forces must simply be canceled out by well crafted experiment design. But when "laws" are discovered we each forget that none of these laws operate alone and that we don't know all the laws. We can't even see the most fundamental truths like that all life is individual and consciousness is foundational. We don't notice that all progress originates in individual ideas and it is language that lies at the root of human or animal progress.

If it conflicts with our beliefs we can't even see that all change in life, in species, in individuals is sudden and happenstance is far more critical to success or failure of individuals or groups than is "fitness".

We are blind to everything but our beliefs because we each individually and collectively know everything. Homo Omnisciencis.