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Difficult questions for Jews and Christians.

Simplelogic

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
"If we are willing to humble ourselves and admit that something is definitely wrong and lacking with the faith of our fathers, then there is hope. We who were raised in the Christian tradition must ask the question: why doesn't God openly endorse Christianity with spectacular miracles the way He did for Yahshua? Yahshua clearly said that his followers would do much more of the same. Could it be that Christianity hasn't followed him the way he intended? And the Jew must ask: Why were my ancestors dispossessed of the land of Israel a second time and why for so long? The nation of Israel was dispersed the first time for only seventy years for its sins, like sacrificing children to pagan idols. What could have been done to warrant a nearly two-thousand-year second dispersion? These are painful questions that are seldom asked.

In the end, I hope it will be evident that what each religion has desperately needed is first; a better understanding of Elohim/God, and secondly; each needs exactly what it has rejected from the other. The last thing the Jew needs is Christianity. Christianity needs Judaism... the Law. What the Jew could certainly benefit from is the knowledge of his Messiah." -Scott Nelson Yeshua/Jesus and Judaism versus Paul and Christianity
 
Brickjectivity

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Simplelogic said:
We who were raised in the Christian tradition must ask the question: why doesn't God openly endorse Christianity with spectacular miracles the way He did for Yahshua?
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It doesn't work that way. Miracles create nothing permanent. That has always been true and always will be, and so miracles are not required. No matter how strong the miracle appears you can always doubt it. Deuteronomy 13:31 affirms this, and for Christians so does Luke 16:31 . What remains of value is love, faithfulness and mercy, and these are superior in power and effect to any miracle. Miracles have no lasting value. People who claim otherwise are selling something, and usually what they're selling is your life.
 
Simplelogic

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
Brickjectivity said:
It doesn't work that way. Miracles create nothing permanent. That has always been true and always will be, and so miracles are not required. No matter how strong the miracle appears you can always doubt it. Deuteronomy 13:31 affirms this, and for Christians so does Luke 16:31 . What remains of value is love, faithfulness and mercy, and these are superior in power and effect to any miracle. Miracles have no lasting value. People who claim otherwise are selling something, and usually what they're selling is your life.
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I agree with the basic premise of your response.however it is still true that Yeshua said that his followers would perform miracles like he did.
 
Brickjectivity

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
Simplelogic said:
And the Jew must ask: Why were my ancestors dispossessed of the land of Israel a second time and why for so long?
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It is viewed as just more of the same. There is precedent for it (which Outhouse would say was written after the fact) in Deuteronomy and Exodus about this nation Israel which would fall away and then be brought back multiple times. Its a cyclical concept. In the opening chapter of Ecclesiastes the cyclical life of generations of Israel is compared to the water cycle. Israel as a country was always getting invaded, much like the modern little country of Latvia. The cycles of oppression were like the water cycle, and it may have seemed endless to an Israeli looking back at History. The author of Ecclesiastes is actually speaking encouragement in chapter one when he says that despite the water cycle, Earth remains. That is generally how all of the periods of exile are viewed I suspect, as just more cycles. It would be similar to how modern Latvians view all of their past invasions. The invaders came, ruled for a while, but they washed away while the Earth remained.
 
Tarheeler

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
Simplelogic said:
" And the Jew must ask: Why were my ancestors dispossessed of the land of Israel a second time and why for so long? The nation of Israel was dispersed the first time for only seventy years for its sins, like sacrificing children to pagan idols. What could have been done to warrant a nearly two-thousand-year second dispersion?
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While they are sometimes difficult for us to ask ourselves, we discuss them often.
And the answers have absolutely nothing to do with Jesus.
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Simplelogic said:
"If we are willing to humble ourselves and admit that something is definitely wrong and lacking with the faith of our fathers, then there is hope. We who were raised in the Christian tradition must ask the question: why doesn't God openly endorse Christianity with spectacular miracles the way He did for Yahshua? Yahshua clearly said that his followers would do much more of the same. Could it be that Christianity hasn't followed him the way he intended? And the Jew must ask: Why were my ancestors dispossessed of the land of Israel a second time and why for so long? The nation of Israel was dispersed the first time for only seventy years for its sins, like sacrificing children to pagan idols. What could have been done to warrant a nearly two-thousand-year second dispersion? These are painful questions that are seldom asked.

In the end, I hope it will be evident that what each religion has desperately needed is first; a better understanding of Elohim/God, and secondly; each needs exactly what it has rejected from the other. The last thing the Jew needs is Christianity. Christianity needs Judaism... the Law. What the Jew could certainly benefit from is the knowledge of his Messiah." -Scott Nelson Yeshua/Jesus and Judaism versus Paul and Christianity
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Xianity does not need the 'law' in that form. It's a different religion, there are reasons that Esu taught against strict adherence to various laws (specific ones to be exact), it has to do with the theology inherent in Xianity, how we relate to Esu, the incarnated form of the 'father' ie JHVH.
 
Levite

Levite

Higher and Higher
Simplelogic said:
"If we are willing to humble ourselves and admit that something is definitely wrong and lacking with the faith of our fathers, then there is hope. We who were raised in the Christian tradition must ask the question: why doesn't God openly endorse Christianity with spectacular miracles the way He did for Yahshua? Yahshua clearly said that his followers would do much more of the same. Could it be that Christianity hasn't followed him the way he intended? And the Jew must ask: Why were my ancestors dispossessed of the land of Israel a second time and why for so long? The nation of Israel was dispersed the first time for only seventy years for its sins, like sacrificing children to pagan idols. What could have been done to warrant a nearly two-thousand-year second dispersion? These are painful questions that are seldom asked.

In the end, I hope it will be evident that what each religion has desperately needed is first; a better understanding of Elohim/God, and secondly; each needs exactly what it has rejected from the other. The last thing the Jew needs is Christianity. Christianity needs Judaism... the Law. What the Jew could certainly benefit from is the knowledge of his Messiah." -Scott Nelson Yeshua/Jesus and Judaism versus Paul and Christianity
Click to expand...

First of all, they're not seldom asked. The Rabbis and their successors have asked such questions and discussed possible answers many times. These sorts of questions are asked throughout Rabbinic literature, and it is typical ignorance of Jewish Thought to presume they are novel or unasked questions.

Second of all, everyone could benefit from knowledge of the messiah. We'll all be interested to learn from him whenever he finally gets here, since he manifestly has not yet arrived.
 
A

Adstar

Active Member
Simplelogic said:
"If we are willing to humble ourselves and admit that something is definitely wrong and lacking with the faith of our fathers, then there is hope. We who were raised in the Christian tradition must ask the question: why doesn't God openly endorse Christianity with spectacular miracles the way He did for Yahshua? Yahshua clearly said that his followers would do much more of the same.
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His followers did do the same. The apostles also did miracles. It was never stated by Jesus that His followers would do the signs forever. Only that they would do the signs. And they did do the signs.. But people Add to the word of God subconsciously by adding "always" or "forever"..


Simplelogic said:
Could it be that Christianity hasn't followed him the way he intended?
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Well there has always been many false christians but the lack of miracles and signs being performed is not necessarily an indication of this. Actually in Christian prophecy it reveals that in the end times one will come doing lying signs and wonders and will deceive many. So seeing someone doing signs and wonders is no guarantee that they are messengers of God.


Simplelogic said:
In the end, I hope it will be evident that what each religion has desperately needed is first; a better understanding of Elohim/God, and secondly; each needs exactly what it has rejected from the other. The last thing the Jew needs is Christianity. Christianity needs Judaism... the Law. What the Jew could certainly benefit from is the knowledge of his Messiah." -Scott Nelson Yeshua/Jesus and Judaism versus Paul and Christianity
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You sound like a full member of the Hebrew roots movement Simplelogic..
 
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