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Diocese says it must end all state-funded adoption, foster services

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
They hold to traditional values that a child is raised by a man and woman. Do you honestly think that is a bad thing?
And would you honestly force someone to do something that they feel is wrong?

well if you would, then you are against human rights.
Nobody's forcing anyone to do anything they don't want to do.

Catholic Charities of Rockford is completely free to take this odious stance. In response, the state government effectively said "okay, but we won't place children through you any more." ... and they went their separate ways, with everyone's rights intact.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
well if you would, then you are against human rights.
I think it's against human rights to deny child in need of a healthy, happy home based solely on irrational bigotry that's rooted in superstition and other such unsubstantiated drivel.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
I think it's against human rights to deny child in need of a healthy, happy home based solely on irrational bigotry that's rooted in superstition and other such unsubstantiated drivel.

How I wish it were.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Nobody's forcing anyone to do anything they don't want to do.

Catholic Charities of Rockford is completely free to take this odious stance. In response, the state government effectively said "okay, but we won't place children through you any more." ... and they went their separate ways, with everyone's rights intact.


exactly,

and yet it seems a lot of people are not happy about it :sarcastic
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
I think it's against human rights to deny child in need of a healthy, happy home based solely on irrational bigotry that's rooted in superstition and other such unsubstantiated drivel.

what has superstition got to do with upholding a childs right to have both mother and father?
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
what has superstition got to do with upholding a childs right to have both mother and father?

The Catholic churches assertion that both a mother and father are a right or even necessary is based upon it`s dogma which is based upon superstition.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
what has superstition got to do with upholding a childs right to have both mother and father?

"Right to"? How are the dangly bits of a parent even relevant, much less a necessity? Superstition has a lot to do with it because it isn't grounded in any evidence or logic.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
The Catholic churches assertion that both a mother and father are a right or even necessary is based upon it`s dogma which is based upon superstition.

I wouldn't go that far. A bit naive.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
"Right to"? How are the dangly bits of a parent even relevant, much less a necessity? Superstition has a lot to do with it because it isn't grounded in any evidence or logic.


i dont think this argument has any relevance to whether someone should be forced to do something contrary to their own conscience.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
i dont think this argument has any relevance to whether someone should be forced to do something contrary to their own conscience.

Of course they shouldn't be forced to, but they also shouldn't be in that line of work, either. Imagine if there was a doctor who refused to help people because of their race? Even if he was following his conscience should he still be a doctor?
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Of course they shouldn't be forced to, but they also shouldn't be in that line of work, either. Imagine if there was a doctor who refused to help people because of their race? Even if he was following his conscience should he still be a doctor?

racsism has nothing to do with conscience.

What is 'right and wrong' is what conscience dictates...not which nationalities are the best. Dont blur the lines of morality with unfounded racism and nationalistic pride.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
racsism has nothing to do with conscience.

What is 'right and wrong' is what conscience dictates...not which nationalities are the best. Dont blur the lines of morality with unfounded racism and nationalistic pride.

But racists believe themselves to be morally justified, just like homophobes and misogynists believe themselves to be morally justified. Why exactly should I differentiate? It's all irrational bigotry, and thus I shall regard it all the same.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
But racists believe themselves to be morally justified, just like homophobes and misogynists believe themselves to be morally justified. Why exactly should I differentiate? It's all irrational bigotry, and thus I shall regard it all the same.

i'll agree to disagree :)
 

kepha31

Active Member
CATHOLIC FOSTER CARE IN D.C. FORCED OUT
February 17, 2010

As reported in today’s Washington Post, Catholic Charities in the Archdiocese of Washington has ended its foster-care program. At issue was the right of the archdiocese to reject gay marriage and remain a city contractor; a bill legalizing same-sex marriage recently passed in the District.

Catholic League president Bill Donohue supports the archdiocese:
Archbishop Donald Wuerl is a man of principle and prudence: he did not want to end the foster-care program, but he was left with no realistic option. District lawmakers could have granted the kind of religious exemptions that would have ensured a continuation of services, but instead they sought to create a Catch-22 situation for the archdiocese. Surely they knew that Archbishop Wuerl was not going to negotiate Catholic Church teachings on marriage, yet that hardly mattered to them. The real losers are the children who were served by the Catholic Church.

Those who say that Wuerl is throwing the kids overboard are phonies. If Planned Parenthood were told that as a condition of public funding it had to refer Catholic women having second thoughts about abortion to a crisis pregnancy center, it would scream violation of church and state, refuse the money and end this program. Well, Archbishop Wuerl isn’t about to allow the state to run roughshod over Catholic doctrine, and that is why he is being forced to drop the foster-care program.
Prudent lawmakers interested in balancing church and state interests and servicing children would not seek to impose secular views on sectarian institutions. But that’s not what D.C. legislators opted to do, leaving Archbishop Wuerl with no realistic alternative. Catholic League: For Religious and Civil Rights

That says it all.
 

GabrielWithoutWings

Well-Known Member
racsism has nothing to do with conscience.

What is 'right and wrong' is what conscience dictates...not which nationalities are the best. Dont blur the lines of morality with unfounded racism and nationalistic pride.

So, let me make sure I understand you clearly...

It's okay for the Catholic Church to have their stance on gay folks because that's a 'decision of conscience' but it's somehow different for southern Protestant churches to tell people that race mixing is wrong and that blacks and Jews are subhuman, even if they feel that it's a matter of right and wrong?
 

kepha31

Active Member
In seeking to understand the traditional family, Christians should keep in mind that not only are individual persons created in the image of God, but so is the family itself. The human family is the closest analogy that mankind will ever come to concretely understanding the Blessed Trinity.

The creeds teach that while there is one God, He exists in three distinct persons. The bible, on the other hand, reveals that man is made in the 'image of God'. From these two truths, therefore, we can acknowledge that the complete image of God is found in the Triune understanding of Him.

This understanding of His Triune nature is reflected by the human family whose personal relationships approach the likeness of the Trinity. There are multiple demonstrations of this truth.

Consider the unity of the Trinity which is reflected in the unity of the family. Or the "family of persons" which is found in both. The persons of the Trinity share the 'same substance ' while a human family becomes one flesh: wife with husband and parents with children.

There is also another element in the Trinity that lends itself to human likeness. The Nicene Creed professes this about the Trinity: "We believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life who proceeds from the Father and the Son."

In Catholic theology, the Holy Spirit is said to proceed from the will of both the Father and the Son, or in other words, through the activity which they engage in, otherwise known as "love".

The Holy Spirit is poured forth through the exchange of love between the Father and the Son. This is why perhaps Jesus says to the Apostles: " Unless I go away, the Counselor will not come to you; but if I go, I will send him to you." (John 16:7)

In the eternal economy of the Trinity, therefore, a person 'proceeds' from the love between two other persons. And so, the Holy Spirit is love 'proceeding' or 'coming from' the first two persons of the Blessed Trinity.

The human family has a rather striking parallel to this dynamic. The ultimate act of intimacy in a marriage mirrors the eternal exchange of love between the first two persons of the Trinity.

And like the eternal or continual procession of the Holy Spirit in the Trinity, the act of love between a man and a woman causes a 'procession' of another human person (i.e. the birth of a child).

Thus, it is precisely because the homosexual sex act is not ordered to the procession of another person, that it can never be a Trinitarian reflection of the divine essence.

Indeed, the sexual act itself, which is supposed to be a reflection of the Trinitarian relationship, becomes, through the homosexual act, a blasphemy against God since it ends up distorting the Trinitarian image of Him.

The human sexual act either affirms God's image or it distorts it. This is why all forms of contraceptive sex, including the homosexual act, are serious sins: they seek to create God in another image. It is anti-Trinitarian.
http://catholic-legate.com/articles/antitrinity.html
 

kepha31

Active Member
So, let me make sure I understand you clearly...

It's okay for the Catholic Church to have their stance on gay folks because that's a 'decision of conscience' but it's somehow different for southern Protestant churches to tell people that race mixing is wrong and that blacks and Jews are subhuman, even if they feel that it's a matter of right and wrong?

The issue is not "the stance on gay follks", it's the right of Catholic institutions to comply with the teachings on marriage. Racist Protestant cults are in serious error, and they have nothing to do with the topic.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
The issue is not "the stance on gay follks", it's the right of Catholic institutions to comply with the teachings on marriage. Racist Protestant cults are in serious error, and they have nothing to do with the topic.

i agree

the situations are completely dissimilar.
 

GabrielWithoutWings

Well-Known Member
The issue is not "the stance on gay follks", it's the right of Catholic institutions to comply with the teachings on marriage. Racist Protestant cults are in serious error, and they have nothing to do with the topic.

Don't tell me they're in serious error. Tell Pegg that. They're just following their conscience after all, even if she somehow thinks they're dissimilar, which they aren't.
 
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