Discrimination in the Catholic Church

[Falcon]

What a silly answer. Jesus was a Jew , He formed a religion called Christianity, there were mostly Jews only in that geograpical area back then.

 

[Songbird]

What a silly answer. Jesus was a Jew , He formed a religion called Christianity, there were mostly Jews only in that geograpical area back then.

And women weren't allowed to be religious leaders back then. See my point?

 

[sojourner]

From what you write ,then we must conclude that you are also saying that Jesus is a chauvinist,why? Because He is the Chief Shepherd of His Church. and He only appointed men as the nucleus of His Church. I believe this , if it was good enough for Jesus and His Church , then it's good enough for me and it should be good enough for you. If some can't accept the ways of Jesus , then tough luck,go join the other guy's church, there are many others to pick from.

It's not "good enough," precisely because it fails to consider the equality presented by the cultures in which it now finds itself. To hang on to cultural "norms" just because "that's what Jesus did" is not what Jesus would do.

 

[sojourner]

No women there with any kind of authority . The only "teaches with authority".

Yeah, but in this culture there are plenty of women with all kinds of authority...

 

[sojourner]

E. Nato,you wrote: "If women can't be ordained, they can't be members of the actual clergy. They can't be priests, bishops, cardinals, popes, or any authority figure in the Church hierarchy.

And the above can't give birth to children. Accept the way God made things , and quit bellyaching.You could always become a nun and if you want authority , strive to become a Mother Superior . God set everything up the way He wants it , not the way we want it. Accept it and please stop complaining about God's earthly Church.

I don't buy that. Discernment and implementation of God's will is the church's purview, and the church is fallible.

 

[sojourner]

E. Nato, only because the Protestants had and have the wrong interpretation of Scripture.There is only "one " interpretation of Scripture.

bull ****!

 

[sojourner]

Ah, I mean any other calling. When you said a call works according to a three-fold formula, being first issued by God, the first thing I thought of was that people feel called by God to do various things. I didn't realize you meant specifically a ministry call. The church confirming a man's call but not a woman's to priesthood is still discriminatory.

How? Ordination isn't a right to be trampled on. It's not even a privilege...

 

[sojourner]

Again, I say to you that if you are calling His Church [ Jesus said " my church " in Matt. 16 18-19 ] discriminatory, then you are calling Jesus discriminatory. Jesus is the Founder of His Church. That is the way He set it up . So, either you accept His One True Church or you do as some of the earlier followers of Jesus did , which was , to walk no more with Him [ John 6 : 41- 71 ]. Many men ,not liking the way Jesus formed His Church , went away from His Church and formed their own cafeteria -style [ take what you want and leave the rest ] churches tha continue to split to this day with everyone of them having their own interpretation of Scripture so as to fit into their own personal religious agenda. There is only "One Interpretation " and only 'One " Church has had it down through the ages from the time Jesus formed His Apostolic ,Universal Church at Pentecost with the infusion of His Holy Spirit. No other Church can claim this but "one " [ meaning all Apostolic Churches that can trace their religious lineage directly back to Jesus and His Apostles/ Successors and all with the same 'Doctrine " ] and that is just the way Jesus formed it , take it or leave it. Jesus doesn't lie or make mistakes. God isn't the inventor of confusion , mere man is, that's why there are so many conflicting confused churches along with their brain-washed [ even more so confused ] cults.

Some have called the church careless with the safety of children...
Is the same paradigm in effect for that eventuality?

 

[Falcon]

Yes Songbird, I see your point, but you don't understand God's point.It is God's Church, remember. God only formed His One Church and it isn't an easy church to understand at times, I guess that is one of the reasons why mere men decided to go off and start all the different denominational and non- denominational churches and cults that exist today . God only gave us One Church , read Matt. 16 ; 18-19 , that Church is the only Church that Jesus left us with , all the other different churches and cults were and still are being invented by mere men and women.

 

[sojourner]

Songbird, you are mistaken, pick up your Bible and read verse Matt 16: 18-19. Jesus said He will build His Church on earth and always provide a shepherd for us ,until the real "Shepherd " returns. Jesus said : " my church ' [ singular form ] not churches .

then why do you insist on using the term when talking about Protestant arms of "the church???"

 

[sojourner]

It is God's Church, remember.

then why does your branch insist upon excluding fully one half of God's people from ordained ministry?

God only formed His One Church and it isn't an easy church to understand at times, I guess that is one of the reasons why mere men decided to go off and start all the different denominational and non- denominational churches and cults that exist today .

Either there is "church," or there are "churches." Which is it, falcon? "Mere men" started "the church" in the first place -- under inspiration from God. Why is it so unthinkable that the branches were begun in the same way? Perhaps part of maturing in faith is recognizing that there is no such thing as a corner on the spiritual market...

God only gave us One Church , read Matt. 16 ; 18-19 , that Church is the only Church that Jesus left us with , all the other different churches and cults were and still are being invented by mere men and women.

Obviously, you're grossly mistaken, because there is only one Church with many facets.

 

[Falcon]

Sojourner, it isn't bull.
Read what Jesus said in Romans 16: 17-18 "........ in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; ....... " Read it Sojourner ---- doctrine they received "Then " . not later in the 16th or later age. One Interpretation.
How often do you hear a Shepherd given all different commands to each individual sheep in His flock ?

 

[Songbird]

How? Ordination isn't a right to be trampled on. It's not even a privilege...

I don't understand enough of Catholic culture to know how priests feel, but that seems to be very subjective. Pastors have often described their calling as a privilege. What would you call ordination? Just a call? I don't mean "just" as in "merely"; what other description?

How is ordaining women trampling ordination?

 

[Songbird]

Yes Songbird, I see your point, but you don't understand God's point.It is God's Church, remember. God only formed His One Church and it isn't an easy church to understand at times, I guess that is one of the reasons why mere men decided to go off and start all the different denominational and non- denominational churches and cults that exist today . God only gave us One Church , read Matt. 16 ; 18-19 , that Church is the only Church that Jesus left us with , all the other different churches and cults were and still are being invented by mere men and women.

I don't contend that it's God church (in this argument, anyway.)

I contend the church's interpretation of ordination. It's not difficult to understand. Men decided what it was.

I understand your need to believe that the church's interpretation is synonymous with God's dictum. Well, I don't understand it, but I understand that's your belief. What happens if you try on the idea that maybe the Church could change and God would be okay with it?

 

[sojourner]

Sojourner, it isn't bull.
Read what Jesus said in Romans 16: 17-18 "........ in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught; ....... " Read it Sojourner ---- doctrine they received "Then " . not later in the 16th or later age. One Interpretation.
How often do you hear a Shepherd given all different commands to each individual sheep in His flock ?

Jesus didn't say anything in Romans.
what is the teaching referred to? Certainly not all teaching. Paul has something specific in mind here. What do you think that something is? Paul is writing specifically here.

 

[sojourner]

I don't understand enough of Catholic culture to know how priests feel, but that seems to be very subjective. Pastors have often described their calling as a privilege. What would you call ordination? Just a call? I don't mean "just" as in "merely"; what other description?

How is ordaining women trampling ordination?

A call is never "just" or "merely" anything. A call is a powerful and mostly scary thing, for it requires one to give up one's life. A call is a sacrifice. A call is submission. A call is abject obedience. I wouldn't call that a privilege, for it places the ordinand at the bottom of the community food-chain.

 

[sojourner]

...the idea that maybe the Church could change and God would be okay with it?

You may as well pray for al quaida to be reasonable...

 

[Falcon]

Songbird, the Catholic Church verifys it's Doctrine alongside the Holy Bible, I gave you a very good verse in one of my past posts to prove that God wants only men ordained . The Church is only going with the way God wants His Church to function , as He formed it , not as some of you protesters against His Church want it.
Jesus formed only a Church and that Church is the only Church that has the correct interpretation .
Even the Bible is humble in it's Holy Words to say that : " This, then, you must understand first of all , that no prophecy of Scripture is made by private interpretation " 2nd Peter 1v20.

" There are certain things difficult to understand , which the unlearned [ not understanding how to understand with the correct "one only " interpretation ] and the unstable [ many of the cult leaders that brought on devestation to their groups for an example ] , just as they do the rest of the Scriptures also ".

 

[Falcon]

Sojouner, my bad , I meant the Word of God .

In John 17: 20 -21 , Christ's " High Priestly Prayer " contains the unity of Christians as its central intention: " Father ... I do not pray for these only , but also for those who believe in me through their word, that they may all be one; even as thou, Father , art in me, and I in thee , that they also may be in us , so that the world may believe that thou has sent me. "
To accomplished this goal , Jesus instituted His Teaching Church which contains the Fullness of the Christian Faith.

 

[sojourner]

Sojouner, my bad , I meant the Word of God .

In John 17: 20 -21 , Christ's " High Priestly Prayer " contains the unity of Christians as its central intention: " Father ... I do not pray for these only , but also for those who believe in me through their word, that they may all be one; even as thou, Father , art in me, and I in thee , that they also may be in us , so that the world may believe that thou has sent me. "
To accomplished this goal , Jesus instituted His Teaching Church which contains the Fullness of the Christian Faith.

And that fullness is to be found in all facets of the church.