Discrimination in the Catholic Church

[Songbird]

Songbird, the Catholic Church verifys it's Doctrine alongside the Holy Bible, I gave you a very good verse in one of my past posts to prove that God wants only men ordained . The Church is only going with the way God wants His Church to function , as He formed it , not as some of you protesters against His Church want it.
Jesus formed only a Church and that Church is the only Church that has the correct interpretation .
Even the Bible is humble in it's Holy Words to say that : " This, then, you must understand first of all , that no prophecy of Scripture is made by private interpretation " 2nd Peter 1v20.

" There are certain things difficult to understand , which the unlearned [ not understanding how to understand with the correct "one only " interpretation ] and the unstable [ many of the cult leaders that brought on devestation to their groups for an example ] , just as they do the rest of the Scriptures also ".

Ack, no you didn't. All you proved is that the way it appears to have been is the way it's interpreted to be applied for all time. Heck, there's a clearer verse instructing slaves on their behavior, and by your reasoning we should strive to adhere to that because that's how it was done then.

Except...at some recent point the Church decided slavery wasn't okay. So why was that changed?

 

[Songbird]

A call is never "just" or "merely" anything. A call is a powerful and mostly scary thing, for it requires one to give up one's life. A call is a sacrifice. A call is submission. A call is abject obedience. I wouldn't call that a privilege, for it places the ordinand at the bottom of the community food-chain.

That's why I clarified that I didn't mean "merely". I meant just as in only one descriptor word, since I didn't how you'd describe it.

The second part of what you said....Wouldn't any call be that? A call to ministry alone doesn't come with all of that by default.

 

[Songbird]

You may as well pray for al quaida to be reasonable...

BTW, what kinda nominal obeisance you lookin for?

 

[sojourner]

That's why I clarified that I didn't mean "merely". I meant just as in only one descriptor word, since I didn't how you'd describe it.

The second part of what you said....Wouldn't any call be that? A call to ministry alone doesn't come with all of that by default.

Any call is a call to ministry. Not all ministry is ordained ministry. A priest/pastor's ministry arises out of her/his ministry to which (s)he was called in baptism. (s)he is ordained for that specific ministry.

 

[sojourner]

BTW, what kinda nominal obeisance you lookin for?

Cross my palms with cheese...
:cheese:

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

However, religions often manage to acquire public resources, as when separate schools receive state funding. If the religions then discriminate in ways that would otherwise be illegal, I do not see why they should not be cut off from public support.

A publicly-funded Catholic school system near where I live has decided to disallow anti-gay-bullying activities by students. I think that the province should now defund that school system.

The government does not have the right to punish religions for their personal beliefs. Separation of church and state.

 

[E. Nato Difficile]

The government does not have the right to punish religions for their personal beliefs. Separation of church and state.

Maybe not for their beliefs, but the government can prohibit their behavior if it's dangerous or discriminatory.

-Nato

 

[Falcon]

Songbird, Answering your post # 361

Papal condemnations of slavery were repeated by Popes Gregory XIV (1591), Urban VIII (1639), Innocent XI (1686), Benedict XIV (1741), and Pius VII (1815). In 1839, Pope Gregory XVI and Pope Leo XIII (1890) both wrote condemning slavery, as did the Second Vatican Council (1965).

 

[Songbird]

Songbird, Answering your post # 361

Papal condemnations of slavery were repeated by Popes Gregory XIV (1591), Urban VIII (1639), Innocent XI (1686), Benedict XIV (1741), and Pius VII (1815). In 1839, Pope Gregory XVI and Pope Leo XIII (1890) both wrote condemning slavery, as did the Second Vatican Council (1965).

Right. We should get to ameliorating the priesthood now.

 

[Falcon]

Songbird, I was just proving to you that the Catholic Church was always against slavery.Which I have .
Care to tell be your Protestant affiliation?

 

[Songbird]

Songbird, I was just proving to you that the Catholic Church was always against slavery.Which I have .

You proved that popes condemned it since the 1500s.

But in 1639 Pope Urban VIII bought slaves. And several other popes endorsed slavery prior to and after the 1500s.

BTW, if you click on "quote" in the bottom right corner of my post, you can quote in your reply, if you want.

 

[Looncall]

The government does not have the right to punish religions for their personal beliefs. Separation of church and state.

While they accept public resources, their beliefs are no longer private. If they use those resources to promote bigotry, the resources should be withdrawn.

 

[Falcon]

Songbird, Popes Gregory XIV (1591), Urban VIII (1639), Innocent XI (1686), Benedict XIV (1741), and Pius VII (1815). In 1839, Pope Gregory XVI and Pope Leo XIII (1890) both wrote condemning slavery, as did the Second Vatican Council (1965) all condemned slavery. But not the Protestant churches.so, why not state your church affilliation ?

 

[E. Nato Difficile]

Songbird, I was just proving to you that the Catholic Church was always against slavery.

Except when it wasn't:

Slavery itself, considered as such in its essential nature, is not at all contrary to the natural and divine law, and there can be several just titles of slavery and these are referred to by approved theologians and commentators of the sacred canons.... It is not contrary to the natural and divine law for a slave to be sold, bought, exchanged or given.

[SIZE=-1]Pope Pius IX (Instruction 20 June 1866 AD). J.F.MAXWELL, ‘The Development of Catholic Doctrine Concerning Slavery’, World Jurist 11 (1969-70) pp.306-307

And once again, the fact of the matter is that Protestant Britain was the first nation to abolish slavery.

-Nato
[/SIZE]

 

[Songbird]

Songbird, Popes Gregory XIV (1591), Urban VIII (1639), Innocent XI (1686), Benedict XIV (1741), and Pius VII (1815). In 1839, Pope Gregory XVI and Pope Leo XIII (1890) both wrote condemning slavery, as did the Second Vatican Council (1965) all condemned slavery. But not the Protestant churches.so, why not state your church affilliation ?

They may have written things condemning slavery, but that sure didn't stop at least one of them from participating in the slave trade. This is all beside my points, which is that church tradition doesn't equal the word of God, and that the church discriminates.

Here's an article on the papal history and slavery:

Slavery and religion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Page down to the Christianity section.

I have no church affiliation.

 

[Falcon]

Jesus did say that there would be "good and bad " in His Church, but it never can ever change the Church Doctrines which came to us directly from Jesus via his Apostles and continuing down through their successors [ teachers with the authority to teach the Fullness of the Christian faith ] Regardless if any member [ clergy or layperson ] messes -up doesn't change any Teaching/ Doctrine, the Teaching / Doctrine are both infallible and unchangeable. Matt. 13: 24-30; Matt 5:13-16; Matt. 13: 1-9.

 

[Songbird]

Jesus did say that there would be "good and bad " in His Church, but it never can ever change the Church Doctrines which came to us directly from Jesus via his Apostles and continuing down through their successors [ teachers with the authority to teach the Fullness of the Christian faith ] Regardless if any member [ clergy or layperson ] messes -up doesn't change any Teaching/ Doctrine, the Teaching / Doctrine are both infallible and unchangeable. Matt. 13: 24-30; Matt 5:13-16; Matt. 13: 1-9.

The infallibility of the teaching and doctrine are irrelevant if the church doesn't embrace them.

Who's to say who's right? The teachings keep changing.

 

[Falcon]

Songbird, please name one Doctrine that has ever changed [or rejected ,once accepted] from beginning at 1st. century to this day and until the end of time.

 

[Songbird]

Songbird, please name one Doctrine that has ever changed [or rejected ,once accepted] from beginning at 1st. century to this day and until the end of time.

Uh, slavery. The thing we were just talking about.

I don't mean scripture. I mean as taught papally.

 

[Falcon]

Songbird,any Pope is just human and a sinner [ just ask and he will say so ]
Anyways, a Pope only is infallible when it deals with the Christian faith ,not personal affairs, albeit most popes have been very good Christians, there is a big difference between impeccability and infallibility.