Discrimination in the Catholic Church

[Falcon]

sojourner, you wrote : "Why are you so afraid to admit that unity is found in diversity -- not in uniformity?"
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That would be ok with me, but some of us realize that we can't have everything we want when it comes to dealing with God and His Church . Jesus is in charge , not mere men . Jesus only wants us to keep with the Doctrine that was infused/ received into His Church , which was and still is Apostolic , including as you noted along with the Copts and EOC. these Churches,along with the Roman Catholic Church all believe in the very same Doctrinal teachings as handed down from Jesus to His Apostles .
How can I prove this , directly from the Bible , and yes sojourner , to your chagrin , the Catholic Church encourages its members to read and study the Holy Bible. Let this Catholic show you what Jesus said about your wish on unity through diversity ---
Romans 16: 17-18, " I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of bthose who create dissensions and difficulties , in opposistion to the doctrine bwhich you have been taught; ......" take note : " in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught... get it ? "Then " not different interpretations of His Teachings hundreds of years after the fact, not what has happened since the Protestant Reformation.

1 Cor. 1 v 10 , " I appeal to you , brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. "

If you claim to be a Sola Scriptura subscriber, why do you only " pick and choose / cherry pick only those verses that agree with your personal religious agenda. [ your personal man-made church ]

 

[Me Myself]

sojourner, you wrote : "Why are you so afraid to admit that unity is found in diversity -- not in uniformity?"
__________________
That would be ok with me, but some of us realize that we can't have everything we want when it comes to dealing with God and His Church . Jesus is in charge , not mere men . Jesus only wants us to keep with the Doctrine that was infused/ received into His Church , which was and still is Apostolic , including as you noted along with the Copts and EOC. these Churches,along with the Roman Catholic Church all believe in the very same Doctrinal teachings as handed down from Jesus to His Apostles .
How can I prove this , directly from the Bible , and yes sojourner , to your chagrin , the Catholic Church encourages its members to read and study the Holy Bible. Let this Catholic show you what Jesus said about your wish on unity through diversity ---
Romans 16: 17-18, " I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of bthose who create dissensions and difficulties , in opposistion to the doctrine bwhich you have been taught; ......" take note : " in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught... get it ? "Then " not different interpretations of His Teachings hundreds of years after the fact, not what has happened since the Protestant Reformation.

1 Cor. 1 v 10 , " I appeal to you , brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. "

If you claim to be a Sola Scriptura subscriber, why do you only " pick and choose / cherry pick only those verses that agree with your personal religious agenda. [ your personal man-made church ]

You can provide no evidence that "your " church has been the only one with true apologetic succesion.

The problem with all these is that Paul contradicts Jesus all the time.

 

[E. Nato Difficile]

If you claim to be a Sola Scriptura subscriber, why do you only " pick and choose / cherry pick only those verses that agree with your personal religious agenda. [ your personal man-made church ]

My irony meter just exploded.

-Nato

 

[Falcon]

Good, just revamp it , to a more unbiased meter.

 

[Me Myself]

Good, just revamp it , to a more unbiased meter.

Now mine exploded too!

 

[kepha31]

I'll be the first to say I'm not an expert on this issue, Kepha, but I don't think you need to be an expert to reason that telling slaves to obey their masters, as Paul clearly did, amounts to condoning slavery. In fact, I think to see it any other way, you need to tie reason in knots, for nothing was stopping Paul from, say, being silent on the issue of slavery -- had he not actually wished to condone it. And, since, it seems Paul condoned slavery, and the later Church did not, that there has indeed been fundamental changes in Church doctrine.

Are you suggesting that all of Christendom should have held on to slavery for the sake of consistency? Do you expect that early Christian societies instantly switch from tolerating to banning slavery in a matter of days? George Washington was a slave owner, and noboody harps about George Washington. Why the discrimination against Catholics for teaching against slavery???

 

[sojourner]

That would be ok with me,

No, I don't think it would, judging from the increasingly hostile tenor to your posts. I believe the mere thought of diversity threatens your sense of what the church is.

but some of us realize that we can't have everything we want when it comes to dealing with God and His Church .

The point is, do you realize that what you understand may not be what God wants? Why do you think there has been so much dissention in the church?

Jesus is in charge , not mere men .

Including the Pope, Patriarch, Presiding Bishop, etc.

Jesus only wants us to keep with the Doctrine that was infused/ received into His Church

How are you certain that doctrine has not changed/expanded as the church has expanded and moved into widely disparate cultures? That very thing happened when Paul insisted that Gentiles didn't have to be circumcised. Difference between you and the Jerusalem church is that they wer more accommodating of their Gentile brothers than you seem to be.

these Churches,along with the Roman Catholic Church all believe in the very same Doctrinal teachings as handed down from Jesus to His Apostles .

With the notable exception of
1) the Trinity
2) the Immaculate Conception
3) Celibacy of the priesthood
4) Celibacy of the episcopate
5) Purgatory
shall I go on?

How can I prove this , directly from the Bible , and yes sojourner , to your chagrin , the Catholic Church encourages its members to read and study the Holy Bible.

I never claimed that the Bible shouldn't be read. I was pointing out that you insist on Biblical proof, whereas I know for a fact that the RCC relies HEAVILY on Tradition, as well. Did you know that?

Let this Catholic show you what Jesus said about your wish on unity through diversity ---
Romans 16: 17-18, " I appeal to you, brethren, to take note of bthose who create dissensions and difficulties , in opposistion to the doctrine bwhich you have been taught; ......" take note : " in opposition to the doctrine which you have been taught... get it ? "Then " not different interpretations of His Teachings hundreds of years after the fact, not what has happened since the Protestant Reformation.

Let this Christian remind you that Jesus didn't say anything in Romans. Get it?
The Orthodox differs from the RCC in such basics as the Holy Spirit, and Mary, and what effects salvation. Yet you seem to accept them just fine. I'd like to know what the chip on your shoulder is concerning the Protestant branch of THE Church? Hell, you won't even acknowledge the Anglicans, even though they differ from you doctrinally far less than the Orthodox do!

1 Cor. 1 v 10 , " I appeal to you , brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree and that there be no dissensions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. "

"Same mind" and "same judgment" really have little to do with denominational difference. you're just ****** because we refuse to submit to Rome. Once again, who died and put Rome in charge??? Certainly not Jesus!

If you claim to be a Sola Scriptura subscriber,

I don't and never have claimed such.

why do you only " pick and choose / cherry pick only those verses that agree with your personal religious agenda. [ your personal man-made church ]

I'm not the one doing that in this case.
Could it be that you're the one with a "personal agenda" here? Could it be that your conception of "the Way Things Are" constitutes your very own "man-made church" under the guise of Roman Catholicism, because I'd be willing to bet that Roman clergy would not be nearly so hard-nosed about the rest of Christ's church as you're being.

 

[sojourner]

Falcon, if your POV is accurately representative of the RCC, then I recant my former statement that the RCC is not discriminatory.

[edit]
I have to say that I have had a very high regard for the RCC (used to be one, myself) and her adherents ... until you came along. You're not a very good ambassador of the Faith, IMO.

In a world that is increasingly demorcratic, non-imperial, diverse and getting smaller, at least a modicum of comeraderie and tolerance would serve you well.

 

[Falcon]

sojourner,you wrote : "In a world that is increasingly demorcratic, non-imperial, diverse and getting smaller, at least a modicum of comeraderie and tolerance would serve you well."


So ,if that is the way you feel about it, why did you leave the Catholic Church ? I mean it's probably none of my business, but you have said that you was once a Catholic, I never met a Catholic that knew the Catholic Faith and left it, unless he/she was excommunicated. I also left, but returned after I realized that in my search for Jesus , I had already found Jesus ,right there in His Church, but I wasn't ready for Him back then , so now I can say that twenty-five years ago I found Jesus and twenty-five years later I found his Church . Jesus died and put His Apostles in charge, not your pastor or any other non-Apostolic minister. Your above information is all false because it hasn't any Biblical support. Jesus left us with One Church as I pointed out with Biblical support . This unity that you write about was only ever found in and through Jesus that the Church manifests by not only the unity of its believers but also in the unity of doctrine, you haven't any understanding of Church doctrine. Christ delivered it all to His One Church [ not churches ] Matt. 28 : 18-20 ]

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

So you are fine with people mutilating their daughters in following their religion?

No I am not. I will not say what I want to do to people who mutilate their daughters because I do not want to get in trouble. Besides, that is not religion, that is terrorism when people mutilate their daughters or when they hurt anyone else. Please know the difference between terrorism and religion.

 

[sojourner]

Jesus died and put His Apostles in charge, not your pastor or any other non-Apostolic minister.

And his apostles have systematically left Rome... Must be something going on, if authoritative apostles are leaving -- or being forced out...

Your above information is all false because it hasn't any Biblical support.

It has plenty of Biblical support. It's all right there. The problem is that you choose to not see it there.

Jesus left us with One Church as I pointed out with Biblical support .

And you are correct. it is the one church of which you and I are both part.

This unity that you write about was only ever found in and through Jesus that the Church manifests by not only the unity of its believers but also in the unity of doctrine,

As I've said before: Jesus doesn't call disciples to be right. he calls disciples to be saved.
Check your Bible. Jesus never once says, "Believe these particular things about me." He does say, "Go and do..."

you haven't any understanding of Church doctrine.

Yeah. Guess my 80 some-odd hours of graduate seminary studies didn't teach me anything about church history, church doctrine, theology, or bible...

Christ delivered it all to His One Church

And, again, that would be the one church of which you and I are both part.

The church is one, and you don't get to pick and choose who's in and who's out.

 

[Falcon]

Also many of your theologically educated ilk have crossed the Tiber
Wrong, I just quoted you Bible passages to support my stand with the Catholic Church, you have contributed zilch passages in support of your eisegesis theology .

 

[Sunstone]

Are you suggesting that all of Christendom should have held on to slavery for the sake of consistency? Do you expect that early Christian societies instantly switch from tolerating to banning slavery in a matter of days? George Washington was a slave owner, and noboody harps about George Washington. Why the discrimination against Catholics for teaching against slavery???

Of course I am suggesting nothing of the sort. You are making up words to put in my mouth.

 

[Songbird]

Are you suggesting that all of Christendom should have held on to slavery for the sake of consistency? Do you expect that early Christian societies instantly switch from tolerating to banning slavery in a matter of days? George Washington was a slave owner, and noboody harps about George Washington. Why the discrimination against Catholics for teaching against slavery???

The discussion wasn't about slavery itself but about how the Church changed its teaching throughout time.

 

[sojourner]

Also many of your theologically educated ilk have crossed the Tiber
Wrong, I just quoted you Bible passages to support my stand with the Catholic Church, you have contributed zilch passages in support of your eisegesis theology .

I thought you were in favor of theological education. At least that was one of the "Biblical criteria" you cited in support of your "position" a few posts back.

Or were you kidding?

I don't plan on posting scripture passages; it won't do any good, so it's not worth my effort. You'll play the "You can't be right -- you're not a Catholic" card.

Problem is, what you quoted don't support your position definitively, because Catholic doctrine and polity isn't as scripturally-based as you would like to have us believe.

I think you're trolling, because you don't sound a whole lot like a Catholic.

 

[Falcon]

Bible supports all Teachings of the Catholic Church, you can't post Biblical support because you haven't any for your religious affiliation. And by the way , you were never a Catholic .

 

[Songbird]

Bible supports all Teachings of the Catholic Church, you can't post Biblical support because you haven't any for your religious affiliation. And by the way , you were never a Catholic .

How do you know Sojourner wasn't a Scotsman - er, Catholic?

 

[IsmailaGodHasHeard]

Be nice people. If you get upset, you should take a break so that you do not get in trouble.

 

[Falcon]

I know sojourner was never Catholic [ even though he claims he was] because he knows nothing about the Catholic Faith.

 

[sojourner]

Bible supports all Teachings of the Catholic Church, you can't post Biblical support because you haven't any for your religious affiliation. And by the way , you were never a Catholic .

Whatever.
So far you've not displayed that you have any basis for what you're saying.
And by the way, nobody cares what you think.