Discussion of Thunder: The Perfect Mind

[gnostic]

but then again, I dont view things like everyone else.

Who does?

I expresses lots of view that people would find strange and unconventional.

To me, all those words you've mentioned are interchangable, and mean the same thing...

You mean "psyche" and "self"?

Yes, they are exactly the same thing, but not everyone are familiar with the word "psyche", so I had included "self" for clarification, so to speak.

 

[gnostic]

Though I love both Plato and Socrates... why is this relevant to Thunder?

Nuthin'.

I was merely replying to Comet from his comment on the previous page.

I didn't get response from him, but I did get a few from you.

 

[Comet]

I don't.

I am firm believer of to "know thyself", but I don't think that "god" or "gods" really come into the equation with this statement.

Socrates' "Know Thyself", called upon to think for themselves - to question conventional belief and conventional wisdom, and to challenge them (wisdom and belief) if they are bad. So, instead of accepting things on blind faith, he encourage people to seek the answers.

I actually agree. I did say the "mind of god", not god. I too have some beliefs that are unconventional. As I said in my other post: it is a calling to explore things and to not be in fear of them. Challenge and explore: YES INDEED! Blind faith has nothing to do with my posts, frankly I find that sad in a way (blind faith).

So far we are talking of wisdom. You must explore and challenge to truly find the "light of wisdom". For many people they only understand certain concepts in the way of "god".... Sorry, I've learned to talk in other people's language so they understand my stance a bit better. If you remove the word "god" from this conversation, I think many would be put off and I don't wish to do that.

Addition: Thunder: the perfect mind. The only perfect mind from a human standpoint would be "the mind of god"/godhead/gnosis..... Many only get to that place by a belief is god/gods, etc... That may not be my way, but few others walk my path in life. I'm glad you felt a need to responce to me, I think we may see a bit more eye to eye on things than you think.

 

[gnostic]

Addition: Thunder: the perfect mind. The only perfect mind from a human standpoint would be "the mind of god"/godhead/gnosis..... Many only get to that place by a belief is god/gods, etc...

Yes, but the Gnostic myth also show that nothing is perfect. Not even god or goddess.

Some Gnostics view that the One is perfect, but he is not the only one. The other aeons are extension of the One, sort of like emanations. Each emanation is less perfect than the original aeon (the One). Wisdom or Sophia is one of these aeons, and she is revealed to be less perfect, and she produced a worse being - a Demiurge, the chief Archon, whom we known as Yaldabaoth. Yaldabaoth is seen as a god, and certainly not as perfect one.

The difference between Wisdom and Demiurge is that Sophia no longer has the disllusion that she is as great as the three perfect aeons.

I understand the gnostic concept of the 3 perfect aeons - the One (father), Barbelo (mother) and Autogenes (son), but I am not gnostic, and my agnosticism say that nothing is perfect, because perfection is only subjective. But we can come close to perfection, or that we can strive to come closer to perfection, and thus we try to reach gnosis (or the Buddhism "Enlightenment"), in our own way.

I actually agree. I did say the "mind of god", not god. I too have some beliefs that are unconventional. As I said in my other post: it is a calling to explore things and to not be in fear of them. Challenge and explore: YES INDEED! Blind faith has nothing to do with my posts, frankly I find that sad in a way (blind faith).

I just thought that using "know thyself" with "god" was out of context from Socrates' teaching as revealed by Plato's dialogues. Socrates was more concern with lifting man's wisdom, out of the current thinking of Athenians at that time, not that of the god's wisdom.

But I concur that the "know thyself" have its place in Gnosticism, because the gnosis is essentially that of "know thyself".

 

[Halcyon]

Yes, but the Gnostic myth also show that nothing is perfect. Not even god or goddess.

I understand the gnostic concept of the 3 perfect aeons - the One (father), Barbelo (mother) and Autogenes (son), but I am not gnostic, and my agnosticism say that nothing is perfect, because perfection is only subjective. But we can come close to perfection, or that we can strive to come closer to perfection, and thus we try to reach gnosis (or the Buddhism "Enlightenment"), in our own way.

I think it depends on your definition of perfection. Typically we see perfection as being all good, or created without a flaw - like a perfect diamond.

My definition, and perhaps the one used by the writer of Thunder, is that perfection is "completeness". A perfect thing being absolutely complete, lacking nothing. In this case God would be perfect, as It lacks nothing, it contains everything - good and bad; beautiful and ugly; virginal and defiled.

 

[Comet]

Yes, but the Gnostic myth also show that nothing is perfect. Not even god or goddess.

Yes, why I am a Monist now....

But I concur that the "know thyself" have its place in Gnosticism, because the gnosis is essentially that of "know thyself".

Part of why I still claim to be a gnostic....

I understand the gnostic concept of the 3 perfect aeons - the One (father), Barbelo (mother) and Autogenes (son), but I am not gnostic, and my agnosticism say that nothing is perfect, because perfection is only subjective. But we can come close to perfection, or that we can strive to come closer to perfection, and thus we try to reach gnosis (or the Buddhism "Enlightenment"), in our own way.

I do not disagree here.... but like the Yin-Yang: I view not from a triad perspective. Thus part of the reason I became a Monist.

My definition, and perhaps the one used by the writer of Thunder, is that perfection is "completeness". A perfect thing being absolutely complete, lacking nothing. In this case God would be perfect, as It lacks nothing, it contains everything - good and bad; beautiful and ugly; virginal and defiled.

Ahh Halcyon.... you always had a way with words. More so why I am a Monist.

 

[gnostic]

If "M" stands for "monist" and "G" stands for "gnostic", then what does the "A" stands for, Comet?

 

[Buttons*]

If "M" stands for "monist" and "G" stands for "gnostic", then what does the "A" stands for, Comet?

if you flip back a couple of posts, he has already explained it.... please try to stay on topic.

 

[Comet]

if you flip back a couple of posts, he has already explained it.... please try to stay on topic.

YEAH Gnostic! en:

Hey Buttons! When do we get the next verse??????? How about this weekend since I have to work a weird shift Monday!!!!! HUH, HUH, HUH??????? anda:

 

[Buttons*]

YEAH Gnostic! en:

Hey Buttons! When do we get the next verse??????? How about this weekend since I have to work a weird shift Monday!!!!! HUH, HUH, HUH??????? anda:

okay, since you asked so nicely

I think i'll do this every three days instead.. if anyone has a problem with it, PM me okay?

Why do you who hate me love me
and hate those who love me?
You who deny me confess me,
and you who confess me deny me.
You who tell the truth about me lie about me,
and you who lie tell the truth.
You who know me,
be ignorant of me, and those who have not known me,
let them know me.

 

[YmirGF]

Thunder: the Perfect Mind

I was sent out from the power
and have come to you who study me
and am found by you who seek me.
Look at me, you who study me,
and you who hear, hear me.
You waiting for me, take me into yourselves.
Don't banish me from your vision.
Don't let hatred enter your voice against me
or let anger enter your hearing.
In no place, in not time, be unknowing of me.
Be alert. Don't be ignorant of me.

To me, this is clearly talking about what I call the "inner self". The key phrase is
In no place, in not time, be unknowing of me. To me, this is saying that you are There to learn or observe, not quanitify or instruct. That fits my ideal of the fabled "inner self" to a "T".

 

[Bishka]

Why do you who hate me love me
and hate those who love me?
You who deny me confess me,
and you who confess me deny me.
You who tell the truth about me lie about me,
and you who lie tell the truth.
You who know me,
be ignorant of me, and those who have not known me,
let them know me.

That's a really powerful part of the poem Ashley. I'm glad I caught it before I actually went to bed (I know, I said I'd go to bed hours ago)

To me this is just saying, if you really say you know it, you don't really know of it. For example if you claim to know it, you don't, if you advertise that you have it, you don't. It's those who humbly and quietly, without realizing it, have it.

It's sort of like the idea of "killing the Buddha". In which, if you think you've reached enlightenment or "Buddhahood", kill it immediatley, because you haven't reached it.

Does any of what I said make sense? :cover:

 

[YmirGF]

I cant wait until Monday... so here's the next bit:

I am the first and the last.
I am the honored and the scorned.
I am the whore and the holy.
I am the wife and the virgin.
I am the mother and daughter.
I am the members of my mother
and the barren one with many sons.
I have had a grand wedding
and have not found a husband.
I am a midwife and do not give birth.
I am the solace of my labor pains.
I am bride and groom,
and my husband produced me.
I am the mother of my father
and sister of my husband,
and he is my offspring.

I am a slave of him who prepared me
and ruler of my offspring.
He produced me earlier yet on my birthday.
He is my offspring to come,
and from him is my power.
I am the staff of his power in his youth
and he the rod of my old age,
and whatever he wants happens to me.
I am silence incomprehensible
and an idea remembered often.
I am the voice of those whose sound is manifold
and word whose apperance is multiple.
I am the utterance of my name.

(To me this still is talking about the inner self, again, to me, the innner self is multidimensional in nature (read as: All incarnations are simultaneous, existing within their own unique present in a "spacious" present.) so that it can for example be the father, the daughter, the grandchild all at the once!)

 

[YmirGF]

Why do you who hate me love me
and hate those who love me?
You who deny me confess me,
and you who confess me deny me.
You who tell the truth about me lie about me,
and you who lie tell the truth.
You who know me,
be ignorant of me, and those who have not known me,
let them know me.

Maybe I am missing something but I am getting something like an "artful dodger" in prose. I still think it is abstract riddles symbolic of the inner self. I suppose that may translate into something in gnosticism I am unaware of, but I haven't read much Gnostic stuff.

It also occurred to me that it could also be "nothing" or something "unknown".
(Sorry I skipped over everyone's posts so I wouldn't get influenced by their thinking.)

 

[Comet]

Why do you who hate me love me
and hate those who love me?
You who deny me confess me,
and you who confess me deny me.
You who tell the truth about me lie about me,
and you who lie tell the truth.
You who know me,
be ignorant of me, and those who have not known me,
let them know me.

*sits and ponders why the Jesus tales were taken into the Bible and the Nag Hamadi texts were surpressed.....*

 

[Halcyon]

That's a really powerful part of the poem Ashley. I'm glad I caught it before I actually went to bed (I know, I said I'd go to bed hours ago)

To me this is just saying, if you really say you know it, you don't really know of it. For example if you claim to know it, you don't, if you advertise that you have it, you don't. It's those who humbly and quietly, without realizing it, have it.

It's sort of like the idea of "killing the Buddha". In which, if you think you've reached enlightenment or "Buddhahood", kill it immediatley, because you haven't reached it.

Does any of what I said make sense? :cover:

Makes sense to me Becky.

I think it's speaking of divine Wisdom again. Those who claim to have it don't - compare it to Jesus's views on the Pharisees.

 

[gnostic]

if you flip back a couple of posts, he has already explained it.... please try to stay on topic.

YEAH Gnostic!

Oops!

Must have missed that! I have been sick with a fever, throat-infection, dehydration and lightheadedness, since Thursday. And my memory hasn't been too good of late. Anything, even an unicorn :unicorn:, could have slipped pass me, and I wouldn't have notice.:cover:

 

[Bishka]

Makes sense to me Becky.

I think it's speaking of divine Wisdom again. Those who claim to have it don't - compare it to Jesus's views on the Pharisees.

I'm glad someone understood my blabber.

 

[Buttons*]

That's a really powerful part of the poem Ashley. I'm glad I caught it before I actually went to bed (I know, I said I'd go to bed hours ago)

To me this is just saying, if you really say you know it, you don't really know of it. For example if you claim to know it, you don't, if you advertise that you have it, you don't. It's those who humbly and quietly, without realizing it, have it.

It's sort of like the idea of "killing the Buddha". In which, if you think you've reached enlightenment or "Buddhahood", kill it immediatley, because you haven't reached it.

Does any of what I said make sense? :cover:

We're Gnostic... we can make sense out of anything... or nothing

but your post was really good, dont worry about it. trust me, we all know what you mean.

*nods* and I agree with you, on all accounts

 

[Bishka]

We're Gnostic... we can make sense out of anything... or nothing

but your post was really good, dont worry about it. trust me, we all know what you mean.

*nods* and I agree with you, on all accounts

Thanks. :hug: