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Disproving god with the laws of logic
- Thread starter freethinker44
- Start date
Curious About Astronomy: Is the universe expanding faster than the speed of light?
There are many more out there but in essence either it is expanding faster or we are wrong about many things.
You ask a good question, one whose answer lies in the subtle difference between expansion that is faster than the speed of light and the propagation of information that is faster than the speed of light. The latter is forbidden by fundamental physical laws, but the former is allowed; that is, as long as you are not transmitting any information (like a light pulse), you can make something happen at a speed that is faster than that of light. The expansion of the Universe is a "growth" of the spacetime itself; this spacetime may move faster than the speed of light relative to some other location, as long as the two locations can't communicate with each other (or, in terms of light rays, these two parts of the Universe can't see each other). According to the theory of inflation, the Universe grew by a factor of 10 to the sixtieth power in less than 10 to the negative thirty seconds, so the "edges" of the Universe were expanding away from each other faster than the speed of light; however, as long as those edges can't see each other (which is what we always assume), there is no physical law that forbids it.
Curious About Astronomy: How can the Universe expand faster than the speed of light during inflation?
There are many more out there but in essence either it is expanding faster or we are wrong about many things.
You ask a good question, one whose answer lies in the subtle difference between expansion that is faster than the speed of light and the propagation of information that is faster than the speed of light. The latter is forbidden by fundamental physical laws, but the former is allowed; that is, as long as you are not transmitting any information (like a light pulse), you can make something happen at a speed that is faster than that of light. The expansion of the Universe is a "growth" of the spacetime itself; this spacetime may move faster than the speed of light relative to some other location, as long as the two locations can't communicate with each other (or, in terms of light rays, these two parts of the Universe can't see each other). According to the theory of inflation, the Universe grew by a factor of 10 to the sixtieth power in less than 10 to the negative thirty seconds, so the "edges" of the Universe were expanding away from each other faster than the speed of light; however, as long as those edges can't see each other (which is what we always assume), there is no physical law that forbids it.
Curious About Astronomy: How can the Universe expand faster than the speed of light during inflation?
freethinker44
Well-Known Member
I'm not sure I understand what you mean. A cause is a cause regardless of where it came from, especially if we are talking about a "first cause"
Correct.
Not exactly. You can't send energy or information faster than the speed of light, but a variety of things move faster.
For instance, a light shining on a screen, that light spot on the screen can go far faster than the speed of light. Another example is a wave breaking almost perfectly horizontally on the shore, that breaking point can go far faster than the speed of light. Same with a pair of scissors, you can cut paper far faster than the speed of light. And finally, mundane stuff like the phase angle of the electromagnetic wave in a waveguide, if memory serves is always between the speed of light and twice the speed of light.
But none can send information or energy.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
So....
An item at rest will remain at rest...until 'something' causes it to move.
An item in motion will continue in a straight line until 'something' causes a deflection.
Look up. There's a cause for all of that movement....and none of it is in a straight line.
That effect had to be dealt a split moment of 'time', before the big bang.
Science can't go there. How about you?
An item at rest will remain at rest...until 'something' causes it to move.
An item in motion will continue in a straight line until 'something' causes a deflection.
Look up. There's a cause for all of that movement....and none of it is in a straight line.
That effect had to be dealt a split moment of 'time', before the big bang.
Science can't go there. How about you?
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freethinker44
Well-Known Member
Could you link a source.
Science goes before the Big Bang. I mean, it always has, but the current darling (for now) Membrane Theory's latest trick is looking back before the Big Bang to the Big Bang before it, infinitely going back in time. Seems the end is the beginning.
And science has plenty of effect without cause. Modern science is full of uncertainty, no reason to think the universe always being here violates anything in science. But popping out of nothingness violates the hell out of the Conservation Laws. QT has to ignore GR and vice versa to work, but neither dares ignore the Conservation Laws.
Plus, it eliminates all those "then who created God" saws, and confirms what the historical Jesus in the Gospel of Thomas knew all along, the end is the beginning.
And science has plenty of effect without cause. Modern science is full of uncertainty, no reason to think the universe always being here violates anything in science. But popping out of nothingness violates the hell out of the Conservation Laws. QT has to ignore GR and vice versa to work, but neither dares ignore the Conservation Laws.
Plus, it eliminates all those "then who created God" saws, and confirms what the historical Jesus in the Gospel of Thomas knew all along, the end is the beginning.
freethinker44
Well-Known Member
That pretty much sums up exactly what I said as far as objects expanding away from each other. The only way something can travel faster than the speed of light is by cheating it.
You don't need a source for that. Think about it. Is there anything that prevents you from spinning a laser very fast? Ok, suppose you move a screen further and further away. As you move it further and further away, the spot moves faster and faster without limit. Seems that should be intuitive, but I could do a geometry proof. There's a very real world astronomy example, where some explosion hitting something like a screen, had that impact point move faster than the speed of light.
freethinker44
Well-Known Member
Oh yes obviously it confirms historical jesus, as does the sweet goodness of a jello pudding pop and frozen monkey poop also confirm this very obvious FACT. I don't know how I missed it before. Man, what was I thinking?
If all of the contents were read you would find that it supports Kurt31416 post
Kurt31416 said:
Beaudreaux
Well-Known Member
Are you saying that the universe cannot be eternal and have always existed because it had to have been started by something? Are you saying that the something that started the universe is God?
The Neo Nerd
Well-Known Member
Here's one for the phase velocity, apparantly it can go faster than twice the speed of light. I could swear it couldn't...oh well...
Since (as we've seen) the phase velocity is w/k, this implies that the (dominant) phase velocity in a waveguide with cutoff frequency w0 is
Hence, not only is the phase velocity generally greater than c, it approaches infinity as w approaches the cutoff frequency w0. However, the speed at which information and energy actually propagates down a waveguide is the group velocity, which (as we've seen) is given by dw/dk.
Phase, Group, and Signal Velocity
Since (as we've seen) the phase velocity is w/k, this implies that the (dominant) phase velocity in a waveguide with cutoff frequency w0 is
Phase, Group, and Signal Velocity
It's a FACT that the historical Jesus of the Gospel of Thomas, just like I said, didn't believe in creation. Now, you can say it's a lucky guess, with everyone else guessing otherwise, but you can't alter that FACT.
Time distortion anyone?
OMG
As a matter of fact, it's elementary physics that a variety of things travel faster than the speed of light, (but never transmit energy or information faster.)
Someone on one side of the screen would never be able to use the system to send and information about the weather to the other side of the screen.
Here's your chance to learn the basics.
Or not.
And of course, the famous Alain Aspect quantum enganglement experiment to explain the EPR thought experiment, where you can send a random number to the other side of the Galaxy instantly. It's not information about the weather, but it would make a swell secret encryption key.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
And did you read the 'relativity of light' in the same website you offered?
It speaks of light having two separate meanings, Day One as compared to Day Four.
And are you aware that recent experiments of extreme cold have shown the speed of light reduced to that of a bicycle? Energy equals mass times the velocity of light squared?
And are you actually disproving God with any of this?
It speaks of light having two separate meanings, Day One as compared to Day Four.
And are you aware that recent experiments of extreme cold have shown the speed of light reduced to that of a bicycle? Energy equals mass times the velocity of light squared?
And are you actually disproving God with any of this?
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