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Disproving god with the laws of logic

V

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
rageoftyrael said:
Thief, you don't understand, we don't need to disprove god. We cannot actually disprove god, no matter how unlikely he actually is, because he was made suitably undisputable. All we need to do is point out the fact that there is no proof for his existence, that there are obvious logical inconsistencies dealing with your god. That should be enough for intelligent people to stop believing. Unfortunately, that does not seem to be the case for a lot of people.
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He just tries to wiggle around it by saying God is not subject to logic.

It's asinine. He ascribes properties to God without any justification and then just says we can't disprove it when he has been repeatedly told God is not a concept one can definitively disprove.

However, if you want to waste energy with him, I commend you. I think I'm done with him for sure now. He not only ignores facts, but he's arguing on the back of a huge strawman.
 
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saltandlight

saltandlight

Football Fan
How can logic of the natural world and of our own human capacity, disprove something that is supernatural and something that is God and who isn't restricted to our laws?
 
V

Vile Atheist

Loud and Obnoxious
saltandlight said:
How can logic of the natural world and of our own human capacity, disprove something that is supernatural and something that is God and who isn't restricted to our laws?
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Very true. And I'll even add to that.

How can you possibly know that a supernatural world exists when you are restricted to the laws of the natural world? And I think I'll go postal if you say "faith"...
 
F

freethinker44

Well-Known Member
saltandlight said:
How can logic of the natural world and of our own human capacity, disprove something that is supernatural and something that is God and who isn't restricted to our laws?
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Logic isn't a natural law, it is an objective concept independent of human ideology. Either way, by interacting with the natural world, a concept puts itself in the position of being subjected to logic.

For example, I will use Kurts favorite post. The sentence "this statement is a lie" is completely conceptual and cannot be proven or disproven, but if this statement were applied to something non conceptual, like saying "this liar has never lied", by intereacting with a physical concept the same unprovable statement can now be proven false rather easily.

The same applies to any kind of creator god or any god that interacts with the universe, a deists could probably squirm his or her way out of this argument because their god doesn't actually do anything, but certainly the abrahamic god is completely bound by the laws of logic.
 
McBell

McBell

Admiral Obvious
freethinker44 said:
I wouldn't even give faith that much credit. Its like landing face first on the ground and claiming a net caught them.
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Awww.
Depends upon your PoV.
For Thief, faith is the ultimate safety net.
The meta cop out.

As I stated in post #447, Thief is the perfect of example of:
Faith is a device of self-delusion, a slight of hand done with words and emotions founded on any irrational notion that can be dreamed up.
Faith is the attempt to coerce truth to surrender to whim.
It is trying to breathe life into a lie by trying to outshine reality with the beauty of wishes.
Misery, iniquity, and utter destruction lurk in the shadows outside its full light, where half-truths snare the faithful disciples, the deeply feeling believers, the selfless followers.
Faith and feelings provide no boundary to limit any delusion, any whim.
They are a virulent poison, giving the numbing illusion of moral sanction to every depravity ever hatched.

​
He has taken "Faith" to such new levels of asininity that I dare say reality is no longer an option for him.

There are a couple others here on RF who have done the same.
 
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A

Archer

Well-Known Member
Humanistheart said:
Because churches don't uphold the ideals your comfortable with the state needs to get involved and remove tax exempt status. What a ludicrous statment.
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It is not me it is the Bible itself. Read it, Gay marrige is a state issue not a religious issue and I really dont care it they are married or not, but I do agree with a lot of the complaints the Gay community makes.

Yes, tax exempt status should be removed from any entity that proclaims to follow the Bible yet in practice they are a social club.

A person who is Gay and admits that it is a sin and they are on the rebound is ok to lead a Church, but one who says there is nothing wrong with it although the teachings of the Bible ARE STRICTLY AGAINST IT.

There is nothing wrong with a woman preaching a sermon but the leaders should br men as laid out by Paul!! I can understand that women step up when there is a need and the fact is, it is not their fault as a male's willing to stand up for God these days is somewhat lacking and in a round about way I do commend them.

Humanistheart said:
You talk to an imaginary friend. So much for rational.
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You imagine that there is no God when I know this to be false so I guess neither of us is rational:)
 
F

freethinker44

Well-Known Member
The bible plainly states that women are not allowed to talk in church.

1 Timothy
2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

And also


1 Corinthians
14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law. 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.


But what am I telling you for, its your bible after all right?
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
You guys! Still slipping off topic I see.

Would anyone like to reaffirm that God does not exist?
At this point the discussion is sadly amusing.

Logic cannot be used to disprove God.
 
F

freethinker44

Well-Known Member
Thief said:
The premise puts the labor of argument on you...not me.
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Ok and I've supported what I have to say. If you object to it you need to say why and support it with something otherwise you might as well be saying nothing at all. Why don't you take any points I have made and analyze them and say why they are wrong as myself and every other atheist on here have done for you. You can't just say its wrong and thats it, if its wrong say why and explain your reasoning why you feel that way. If you want to use this void in your argument explain EXACTLY what it is and how it fits into your argument. Simply saying "the void exists, logic fails, god is" is not an explanation, it might mean something to you but unless you explain it, it is meaningless to anyone else.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I did explain it....you just won't let it be.

Now that you've made your commitment....dust you are...dust you shall be.
Not to be mean or resentful.
It's cause and effect.
 
F

freethinker44

Well-Known Member
You gave a vague reference to some posts you made some 200 posts ago and then when I quoted them and offered explanation or asked you to explain in more detail you completely ignored me and went off on some other topic.
 
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