Disproving god with the laws of logic

[nonbeliever_92]

universe is not rotating!

 

[darkendless]

So the laws of motion are of no concern.

An object at rest will remain at rest until "something" moves it.

The laws of motion apply but cannot be accurately applied. Did you not read my post?

Everything moves, all atoms move, the vibrate.

An object in motion will move in a straight line until 'something' gets in the way.

Not always, it depends on the shape and magnetic dipoles of the compound.

Without an influence...all things would be expanding from the point of origin...from the genesis...in straight lines.

Nope, thats retarded. You should stop, your understanding of science and chemistry in particular is typical of that of a fundamentalist religionist with no clue what they're on about. Usually, you're all to ignorant to accept when you are wrong also.

However,the galaxies pinwheel. The Earth rotates on it's axis. The planets orbit their suns. Electrons circumvent their nuclei.

The earth rotates off its axis actually. It does not rotate at 0 degrees, rather about 12.6 degrees..... lol. Electrons cannot be proven to orbit their nuclei in a perfect circle at a given height either, they are too small to observe. Thats why we have Quantam physics.

Of course....under complete regression.....all of this returns to the singularity.
Most of what we know...doesn't function at that one "point".

Please cite 1 example.

 

[Rogue Cardinal]

So the laws of motion are of no concern.


An object in motion will move in a straight line until 'something' gets in the way.

Without an influence...all things would be expanding from the point of origin...from the genesis...in straight lines.

This is absolutely ridiculous. Ever seen a curve ball thrown? IT doesn't exactly go in a straight line does it?

So it stands to reason that there was an influence...and that was the way that the ball was put into motion. Something about the way it was put into motion caused it to curve. AT the moment it is free from the hand there is a motion that makes the ball spin. There is drag and the ball curves and does not travel in a straight line.

Thus it stands to reason that something could have caused an object to start spinning at the moment of explosion not prior to and could have gotten the same results. Moving out but not in a straight line.

Now space is a bit different. It's a vacuum with no air so the drag thing doesn't quite work out. Never the less....gravity is the drag factor. Proximity to other object influences those objects and allows them to rotate and move.

 

[darkendless]

This is absolutely ridiculous. Ever seen a curve ball thrown? IT doesn't exactly go in a straight line does it?

So it stands to reason that there was an influence...and that was the way that the ball was put into motion. Something about the way it was put into motion caused it to curve. AT the moment it is free from the hand there is a motion that makes the ball spin. There is drag and the ball curves and does not travel in a straight line.

Thus it stands to reason that something could have caused an object to start spinning at the moment of explosion not prior to and could have gotten the same results. Moving out but not in a straight line.

Now space is a bit different. It's a vacuum with no air so the drag thing doesn't quite work out. Never the less....gravity is the drag factor. Proximity to other object influences those objects and allows them to rotate and move.

Don't forget the affects of planet/moon magnetic fields on each other. Why do you think the earth doesn't rotate nice and perfectly like a 7 year old/ christian fundamentalist is led to believe

 

[McBell]

Hey mesty.....
Post #779 is filled with substance.
An entire universe (one word) of substance.

But maybe you prefer not to say more about cause and effect.

The universe is rotating.
God did it.

Without His influence, the big bang would be no more than an ever increasing hollow explosion...no rotation.

Nothing but more unsubstantiated opinion.

Since you are now merely pulling nonsense out of your arse....

 

[Thief]

Apparently I am making discussion you people haven't seen.

I've been watching the singularity 'banged' back and forth for decades.

You people keep adding to the discussion with everyday tangible items as if they apply to the genesis.

They do not.

At the point of singularity all of the basic formulas and discussion, dissipate.
Electromagnetism, gravity, the weak and strong forces,....all of it.

The 'rules' don't apply at that fine line between the void and that first glimmer of light.
Discussion with everyday items in mind clearly indicates you're not up for this.

Laboratory experiments cannot be applied.
No gets to put God under the microscope.

You have to focus.
Put yourself there, at that moment when it all begins.
You have to do it. No one but you can take your thoughts there.

Terminology fails. For the singularity to be the item it is reported to be....
No geometry. No height, no length, no width, no time.
No movement.
Complete perfection....complete uniformity....no deviation.

Then....bang.

God said "I am!"

When Moses inquired what name to give the people...
God said, "Tell them, 'I am', and they who understand will know whose law this is."

 

[freethinker44]

Apparently I am making discussion you people haven't seen.

I've been watching the singularity 'banged' back and forth for decades.

You people keep adding to the discussion with everyday tangible items as if they apply to the genesis.

They do not.

At the point of singularity all of the basic formulas and discussion, dissipate.
Electromagnetism, gravity, the weak and strong forces,....all of it.

The 'rules' don't apply at that fine line between the void and that first glimmer of light.
Discussion with everyday items in mind clearly indicates you're not up for this.

Laboratory experiments cannot be applied.
No gets to put God under the microscope.

You have to focus.
Put yourself there, at that moment when it all begins.
You have to do it. No one but you can take your thoughts there.

Terminology fails. For the singularity to be the item it is reported to be....
No geometry. No height, no length, no width, no time.
No movement.
Complete perfection....complete uniformity....no deviation.

Then....bang.

God said "I am!"

When Moses inquired what name to give the people...
God said, "Tell them, 'I am', and they who understand will know whose law this is."

None of this is true.

 

[darkendless]

Apparently I am making discussion you people haven't seen.

I've been watching the singularity 'banged' back and forth for decades.

You people keep adding to the discussion with everyday tangible items as if they apply to the genesis.

They do not.

At the point of singularity all of the basic formulas and discussion, dissipate.
Electromagnetism, gravity, the weak and strong forces,....all of it.

The 'rules' don't apply at that fine line between the void and that first glimmer of light.
Discussion with everyday items in mind clearly indicates you're not up for this.

Laboratory experiments cannot be applied.
No gets to put God under the microscope.

You have to focus.
Put yourself there, at that moment when it all begins.
You have to do it. No one but you can take your thoughts there.

Terminology fails. For the singularity to be the item it is reported to be....
No geometry. No height, no length, no width, no time.
No movement.
Complete perfection....complete uniformity....no deviation.

Then....bang.

God said "I am!"

When Moses inquired what name to give the people...
God said, "Tell them, 'I am', and they who understand will know whose law this is."

Are you ******* serious?

We cannot test Genesis because people like you constantly change the rules and are too arrogant or too stupid to accept that the laws of nature are ALWAYS TRUE and that GOD IS THE IDIOT's EXCUSE WHEN THEIR STUPID LITTLE STORIES CANNOT BE WITHSTOOD.

 

[Rogue Cardinal]

At the point of singularity all of the basic formulas and discussion, dissipate.
Electromagnetism, gravity, the weak and strong forces,....all of it.

The 'rules' don't apply at that fine line between the void and that first glimmer of light.
Discussion with everyday items in mind clearly indicates you're not up for this.

I'll just ignore the rest of the rubbish and focus on this above.

You have made an extraordinary claim....now you need to back it up.

If you cannot....then I will have no choice but to accept your concession on the grounds that all you are willing to do is throw around empty rhetoric and special pleading. See it's special pleading because you WANT us to believe your cries. But you have to SUPPORT what you say.

The TRUTH is that you need the laws of physics to be thrown right out the window to support your claim. But the fact is there ARE laws of physics. They exist and are proven. so what does that say about your claim? Well it says that your God claim is also unsupported and nothing less than filling gaps that you cannot account for in your own mind that is rather unable to be up to the task at hand.

 

[tumbleweed41]

Apparently I am making discussion you people haven't seen.

I've been watching the singularity 'banged' back and forth for decades.

 

[Thief]

Every so often a long standing axiom falls away, because someone discovers a circumstance wherein the axiom no longer functions.

Mathematicians are the source of such discussion.
They are some of the most extreme when displaying their viewpoints.

When the concept of a singularity came about, everyone rushed to explain it...with numbers.
The extreme numbers gave cause to abandon everyday perceptions.
But with no technology to demonstrate such extremes we are still waiting to see the full extent.
Ironically, some mathematicians are just now coming around to fessing up that numbers...when taken to the extreme.... also fail.

For the singularity to be truly singular....a secondary point is not allowed.
Without a secondary....no line from point 'a' to point 'b'.
Without the basic form...no measure...no distance...no direction...no movement....no vectors....
Only the void.

So if you're waiting for an equation to prove God as the creator....you will wait.

God is reported to be a spirit. People have been trying to photo ghosts of any kind....at great effort....and with a lot of different high tech.
But it would seem that catching God in front of a lens won't happen.

A lot of people have made claim to have seen Him...having conversed with Him...One on one.
But of course, non-believers call that hearsay.
Not likely such things will come your way.

So what's left?

Cause and effect.

The stars are there, above us. Been there a long time.
"Something" caused it to happen.
I call Him...the Almighty.

 

[McBell]

*throws out rubber raft*

*Hops on pontoon*

 

[Rogue Cardinal]

Every so often a long standing axiom falls away, because someone discovers a circumstance wherein the axiom no longer functions.

Mathematicians are the source of such discussion.
They are some of the most extreme when displaying their viewpoints.

When the concept of a singularity came about, everyone rushed to explain it...with numbers.
The extreme numbers gave cause to abandon everyday perceptions.
But with no technology to demonstrate such extremes we are still waiting to see the full extent.
Ironically, some mathematicians are just now coming around to fessing up that numbers...when taken to the extreme.... also fail.

For the singularity to be truly singular....a secondary point is not allowed.
Without a secondary....no line from point 'a' to point 'b'.
Without the basic form...no measure...no distance...no direction...no movement....no vectors....
Only the void.

So if you're waiting for an equation to prove God as the creator....you will wait.

God is reported to be a spirit. People have been trying to photo ghosts of any kind....at great effort....and with a lot of different high tech.
But it would seem that catching God in front of a lens won't happen.

A lot of people have made claim to have seen Him...having conversed with Him...One on one.
But of course, non-believers call that hearsay.
Not likely such things will come your way.

So what's left?

Cause and effect.

The stars are there, above us. Been there a long time.
"Something" caused it to happen.
I call Him...the Almighty.

I'll accept this as your concession since it is obvious you do not wish to debate.

There are none so blind as those who will not see.:tuna:

 

[rageoftyrael]

you do know the largest assumption of your entire argument, thief? it is that there must have been a beginning. which is hilarious, since you don't think god had a beginning, but apparently the universe must have had one. not only that, but who is to say that if there was a beginning, what caused it wasn't natural? it's quite simple to say that it was started in a way that we simply don't yet fathom, and has nothing to do with a supernatural being. the interesting part i see about what people say about god, is they tend to say that he is an incorporeal spirit. so why is he able to influence things? essentially, your beliefs are a bunch of made up stuff, with little logic applied.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

you do know the largest assumption of your entire argument, thief? it is that there must have been a beginning. which is hilarious, since you don't think god had a beginning, but apparently the universe must have had one. not only that, but who is to say that if there was a beginning, what caused it wasn't natural? it's quite simple to say that it was started in a way that we simply don't yet fathom, and has nothing to do with a supernatural being. the interesting part i see about what people say about god, is they tend to say that he is an incorporeal spirit. so why is he able to influence things? essentially, your beliefs are a bunch of made up stuff, with little logic applied.

The concept of a creator being is a by product of mans need to describe how we came about. EVERY single civilisation in history has come up with a story to explain this.

It is easier to believe that an eternal being from a spiritual realm created existence as infinite time and space in the physical realm is impossible to comprehend and therefore a disturbing thought.

Let's face it the concept for an eternal physical realm is more believable than a god as there is actually evidence of the physical realm.

-Q

 

[rageoftyrael]

and you know what's hilarious? that theists use the fact that there are so many religions out there, that there must be something to it, right? pshh... as far as i can tell, it says the opposite. here's the problem, little ones. there are many religions right? but only one can be correct, right? so that means that literally hundreds, if not thousands of religions were made up, by man. who's to say yours isn't?

 

[Troublemane]

well thats not true, theres alot of currencies out there but no "one true" currency. You can buy with each one only in the culture it comes from, and yes there are bigger, more powerful currencies, but they all do the same thing, really. Likewise most religions find a way to take your currency at some point! So they're all quite similar!:angel2:

 

[emiliano]

so, let me get this straight, emiliano, to have faith, you must have faith? you don't see the circular logic here?

Well, since you still sticking around I tell you; it is pretty straight forward, the godless the skeptic, the double mined cannot know God because God has not given them the gift of faith that is what enable the believer to inquire and know spiritual matters, and since God is a spirit the only way to know is if He in great Mercy and compassion is moved to give it to you, and this also implies that the reason that there creatures that don’t know God is because God has not help them yet and there chances many never will helped.

 

[emiliano]

From what i've read, he doesn't seem to see any form of logic.

GhK.

This was solved a long time ago, You cannot use logic to prove or disprove the existence of God because God is a spirit, as far idiotic answers what about blaming you parents for your failures at getting to know spiritual matter? And propose transforming and distorting the tenets of religion to accommodate the lack of self-control, and the inability to aspire to higher moral standards than that of irrational brutes, how logical is that?:ignore:

 

[Thief]

I for one have not conceded anything.
Cause and effect are basic to so many intellectual disciplines.

If you want a debate....then rebuttal.

You might try taking away the singularity idea.
Why not?
No one has ever seen it....could it's past existence be refuted?

Take away the laws of motion.
Why not?
At the point of singularity there is no up or down....no motion....no geometry...no number system for calculation.

Observation of a creation leads to the belief of a Creator.
Take away the creation, and the Creator goes with it.

(Discovering how something came to be...or how it functions...cannot take away faith. By definition...faith requires no proving).

To take away faith in God, you would need to definitively show how an item can be created....without machinery.
God didn't have machines at the point of genesis.
Only His willfulness.

Take away the will of God?
I think that's the devil's quest.