Disproving god with the laws of logic

[Rogue Cardinal]

Okay Tumbleweed....
Speculation is what to you? Eye witness account I suppose.

We all look up at one time or another.
We know the entire universe is moving.....and not in straight lines.
Science would have you believe, that reversing all of the movement results in a singularity.

At the moment of expansion....
The singularity is rotating...or it isn't.
If not...the result would be an ever increasing hollow explosion.
No rotation.

If rotation is present...the result would be what you see over head.

At the point of singularity...."what" induced the rotation?
For a singularity to be truly singular...secondary points are not allowed.
Geometry, as we know it cannot exist.
But "something" initiated the movement....the big bang.
If not..... the singularity would remain at rest.
( a law of motion)
"Something" got it started.....with rotation.


I call Him the Almighty.

Gravity.....there is no reason to not believe that when things were originally set into motion that they didn't have some sort of rotation. throw a ball and it rotates from the first movement. I think you are also looking at initial object with a bit much singularity. You have to look at galaxies as a group of things moving together and affecting each other and yet all moving further and further away from the beginning.

Also the things within those galaxies are getting ever so slightly closer to each other all the time.....thanks to gravity. The tides on this planet move due to gravity. The gravity of the sun affects all the planets within our solar system.

Just because you can't fathom what set something in motion doesn't mean you have to automatically assume God did.

 

[tumbleweed41]

And even a Deist would not call his/her faith in the Prime Mover a fact.
It is a reasonable conclusion, that can be just as reasonably dismissed.

 

[Thief]

So the laws of motion mean nothing?

 

[nonbeliever_92]

The universe isn't rotating. Physicists have deduced that the total rotation of the universe is approximately 0.

 

[tumbleweed41]

So the laws of motion mean nothing?

Typical, throw the baby out with the bathwater....

You have made assumptions, and conclusions, and suppositions. But you have proven as factual nothing.
No matter how logical (or illogical) the assumption is...it is still just an assumption.

 

[Thief]

So you really think so.....
There is no manner or method to approach a belief in God?

 

[Rogue Cardinal]

So you really think so.....
There is no manner or method to approach a belief in God?

Not yet........still waiting. The second you get some good hard evidence....even a shred of it....I'll be all ears.)(

 

[tumbleweed41]

So you really think so.....
There is no manner or method to approach a belief in God?

Belief is one thing.
Stating something as a fact is another.

 

[Thief]

Can you hold your tongue as well?

By regression....all things return to a point of origin....genesis.

At some "point" or another....there was only one...."point".
Perfectly still...unmoving.

That point would remain at rest until 'something' causes it to move.
From that one point....outward....is the only way to go.
An Explosion.

Without an influence the outward motion would result in a hollow expansion,
no rotation.
The singularity would need to be rotating before the expansion begins.
There was an influence.
Cause and effect.

I call the Cause the Almighty.
Do you have a term you prefer?

 

[Rogue Cardinal]

Can you hold your tongue as well?

By regression....all things return to a point of origin....genesis.

At some "point" or another....there was only one...."point".
Perfectly still...unmoving.

That point would remain at rest until 'something' causes it to move.
From that one point....outward....is the only way to go.
An Explosion.

Without an influence the outward motion would result in a hollow expansion,
no rotation.
The singularity would need to be rotating before the expansion begins.
There was an influence.
Cause and effect.

I call the Cause the Almighty.
Do you have a term you prefer?

Hmmmm.....this doesn't look like cause and effect. IT looks like "Close eyes and throw darts".

A hand grenade does not move. Something from INSIDE...not outside....causes the explosion and all sorts of pieces get hurled in rotating motions in all different directions. Think shrapnel....so using your logic....God is a hand grenade?

 

[tumbleweed41]

Can you hold your tongue as well?

By regression....all things return to a point of origin....genesis.

At some "point" or another....there was only one...."point".
Perfectly still...unmoving.

That point would remain at rest until 'something' causes it to move.
From that one point....outward....is the only way to go.
An Explosion.

Without an influence the outward motion would result in a hollow expansion,
no rotation.
The singularity would need to be rotating before the expansion begins.
There was an influence.
Cause and effect.

I call the Cause the Almighty.
Do you have a term you prefer?

Yes, I call it the First Cause, or Prime Mover....
But neither you nor I can prove it.
There does not necessarily have to be a cause, we do not know the exact circumstances, we can only speculate.
The atheist has just as much chance at being correct as I do.

 

[Thief]

If you prefer to call Him.....Grenade....fine.
I can live with that.

In the old testament He preferred to say of Himself..."I am!"
The big bang would be that pronouncement.

 

[Thief]

Hey Tumbleweed.
Cause and effect cannot be separated.
For every cause there is and effect.
For every effect there is a cause.

The stars above are the effect.

 

[nonbeliever_92]

yeah... still no universal rotation, only the distancing of celestial objects has been observed, nothing suggests a uniform spin with the universe.

 

[Rogue Cardinal]

If you prefer to call Him.....Grenade....fine.
I can live with that.

In the old testament He preferred to say of Himself..."I am!"
The big bang would be that pronouncement.

The fact is you have contradicted yourself. You said

The singularity would need to be rotating before the expansion begins

And yet we observe that a hand grenade is not rotating before it explodes and yet it sends particles rotating immediately after the explosion.

 

[Thief]

I never said the rotation had to be uniform.

 

[nonbeliever_92]

yeah, but you suggested that the universe is rotating, it's not.

 

[Rogue Cardinal]

I never said the rotation had to be uniform.

That's beside the point. You said that in order for anything to be rotating the initial site of explosion would also have to be rotating. I have proven you are wrong with a rather easy example from the observable universe....you should concede.

 

[darkendless]

I never said the rotation had to be uniform.

Universal rotation is unobservable considering we do not know the extent of the universe, You're speculating once again.

There is no influence. Stop making things up and talking as if they were true.

 

[Thief]

So the laws of motion are of no concern.

An object at rest will remain at rest until "something" moves it.

An object in motion will move in a straight line until 'something' gets in the way.

Without an influence...all things would be expanding from the point of origin...from the genesis...in straight lines.

However,the galaxies pinwheel. The Earth rotates on it's axis. The planets orbit their suns. Electrons circumvent their nuclei.

Of course....under complete regression.....all of this returns to the singularity.
Most of what we know...doesn't function at that one "point".