Disproving god with the laws of logic

[Archer]

As you have clearly demonstrated, the application of logic can definintely be severely flawed.

Why do we not seek real logic and follow what it dictates. ie. I am an alpha male in all respects and logically should have many wives yet we do not follow this logic which is even presented in the Bible.

Why do we not execute the miscreants as outlined in the Bible as it is logical.

Science has proven pork is bad! The Old Testament backs up that and would it not be logical not to eat it?

There are many more examples of truth and philosophy in the Bible that are true and logical yet we cant follow that logic.

It is just illogical how we can call ourselves a developed and rational species and not focus on the important things in life and waste time and money on satellites and trips to space while the world goes hungry and disease runs rampant.

Illogical, Illogical, Illogical, Illogical does not compute.

 

[GiantHouseKey]

AHHH!!! God is on trial in this thread, therefore the burden of proof is on those who wish to disprove God! Can my post be disproved? I think not. Therefore logic can not disprove God as logic is flawed.

Your use of logic is flawed, not logic itself.
Regardless of whether or not God is on trial, it doesn't mean it's my place to try and prove it. Otherwise I could claim the existence of any invisible phenomenon and you would be forced to disprove it. As you can't, it would exist, which is why logic dictates the the burden of proof is on you in this situation.

Logic dictates many things but we do not follow logic and the fact is human nature is illogical!! Love is illogical!!! Monogamy is illogical. Homosexuality is illogical. Curiosity is illogical. All of the thing that make us what we are are also illogical.

No no no... You're not talking about logic here you're talking about whether or not they are beneficial for a specific purpose: To reproduce. As most people don't agree that reproduction is the only direct point of life, it's perfectly logical, as there are other reasons that these traits can be even useful, let alone logical. Monogamy, to take just one example, is necessary if you want to keep the ladies happy. Polygamy is not a particularly good act for the purpose of keeping a long-term partner and monogamy is only illogical for the purpose of making as many children as possible in the shortest amount of time.

Logic dictates that survival of the species be our only concern.

Nope, logic doesn't dictate anything of the sort. Sorry.

How can we apply logic when we try to define what is logical? Survival of the fittest yet we spend billions on keeping the old and useless alive.

That's not illogical - That's 2 conflicting philosophies that have to attempt to coexist. It doesn't defy logic, it just denies either of the philosophies you have pointed out.

We imprison threats and pay to keep them alive and perhaps even have better lives than those not interned.

What's your point? Sadly, it's human rights (Although I agree that it isn't fair)

I propose logic is flawed and therefore it is illogical not to believe in God.

I propose that, because as I have clearly demonstrated the moon is made of gouda cheese, that we should all bathe in the blood of a virgin tonight! Do you understand the problem with my reasoning here?

GhK.

 

[Archer]

Your use of logic is flawed, not logic itself.
Regardless of whether or not God is on trial, it doesn't mean it's my place to try and prove it. Otherwise I could claim the existence of any invisible phenomenon and you would be forced to disprove it. As you can't, it would exist, which is why logic dictates the the burden of proof is on you in this situation.

No no no... You're not talking about logic here you're talking about whether or not they are beneficial for a specific purpose: To reproduce. As most people don't agree that reproduction is the only direct point of life, it's perfectly logical, as there are other reasons that these traits can be even useful, let alone logical. Monogamy, to take just one example, is necessary if you want to keep the ladies happy. Polygamy is not a particularly good act for the purpose of keeping a long-term partner and monogamy is only illogical for the purpose of making as many children as possible in the shortest amount of time.

Nope, logic doesn't dictate anything of the sort. Sorry.


That's not illogical - That's 2 conflicting philosophies that have to attempt to coexist. It doesn't defy logic, it just denies either of the philosophies you have pointed out.

What's your point? Sadly, it's human rights (Although I agree that it isn't fair)

I propose that, because as I have clearly demonstrated the moon is made of gouda cheese, that we should all bathe in the blood of a virgin tonight! Do you understand the problem with my reasoning here?

GhK.

Nope it is logic. Following instincts is logical!!! People complain about taxes? some are minimum wage workers that pay no tax except FICA and SS? If they have kids thay probably get a humongous tax return at the expense of other tax payers.

Is there a logic to the above statement?

As to the definition, logically God can not be disproved.

1. The study of the principles of reasoning, especially of the structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method and validity in deductive reasoning.
2. a. A system of reasoning: Aristotle's logic.
b. A mode of reasoning: By that logic, we should sell the company tomorrow.
c. The formal, guiding principles of a discipline, school, or science.

3. Valid reasoning: Your paper lacks the logic to prove your thesis.
4. The relationship between elements and between an element and the whole in a set of objects, individuals, principles, or events: There's a certain logic to the motion of rush-hour traffic.
5. Computer Science a. The nonarithmetic operations performed by a computer, such as sorting, comparing, and matching, that involve yes-no decisions.
b. Computer circuitry.
c. Graphic representation of computer circuitry.

I like the blood bath thing and the reasoning I do understand. Open warfare you have no foot to stand on so you simply discount what you do not, can not or refuse to understand.

BTW: if you believe in pink sprites and pray to a pile of petrified dung I really don't care that is your business. The premise of this thread was disproving God with logic and that can not be done as we all have our own logic. The burden of proof is on the side of the OP logically speaking..

 

[freethinker44]

dark matter
dark energy
string theory
11th dimension
DMT effects on the brain and the perception of Alien abduction by people in the study.
Angels or suited men in cave drawings around the world as well as what appears to be space ships.

Please explain.

I would love to go into this, I really would but your just changing the subject without addressing what I first argued. Whatever "evidence" you bring forward (and your evidence is highly circumstantial btw), doesn't matter, because my argument dispves the concept of god, so if you can't refute my argument from the first post without using physical evidence as I have done, then you can't refute it. Even if you find a rock on mars and on the bottom it's stamped "made by god", that still wouldn't refute my argument because I argue that it is logically impossible for god to exist so whatever stamped that on the rock could not have been a god. So I ask again, can you logically prove god exists.

 

[Archer]

I would love to go into this, I really would but your just changing the subject without addressing what I first argued. Whatever "evidence" you bring forward (and your evidence is highly circumstantial btw), doesn't matter, because my argument dispves the concept of god, so if you can't refute my argument from the first post without using physical evidence as I have done, then you can't refute it. Even if you find a rock on mars and on the bottom it's stamped "made by god", that still wouldn't refute my argument because I argue that it is logically impossible for god to exist so whatever stamped that on the rock could not have been a god. So I ask again, can you logically prove god exists.

As above in 343 we all have our own logic so logically speaking you have proven as some of us do not accept your logic.

 

[GiantHouseKey]

Nope it is logic. Following instincts is logical!!! People complain about taxes? some are minimum wage workers that pay no tax except FICA and SS? If they have kids thay probably get a humongous tax return at the expense of other tax payers.

No, it really isn't. You're using logic in a completely different context. It isn't logical to follow instincts. I have a phobia of felt. If that's a logical instinct, to be afraid in every real way when I see or feel felt or pictures of felt, then we are obviously talking about a different sort of logic.

Of course it's logical for people that are on a low wage bracket to pay a lower tax rate. If you don't understand that people need enough money to live then you are very much misinformed about the state of the economy. If you earn lots of money, you pay more tax to support those who don't have lots of money. It's a left wing concept though, so I can understand why some people might not like it (Although I don't really if you see what I mean).

As to the definition, logically God can not be disproved.

I agree with the premise that you cannot logically disprove (or prove) God. There is a logical backing for both cases, but both can equally fall down under another logical scrutany.

But my point is that, luckily for me, I don't have to disprove it, because I don't hold the burden of proof. I'm not just saying that because it's beneficial for me, it's just the way it works. Sorry.

I like the blood bath thing and the reasoning I do understand. Open warfare you have no foot to stand on so you simply discount what you do not, can not or refuse to understand.

Sorry I don't get what you're trying to say. I assume you know nothing about my belief system. Not that I imagine you care - I'm wrong after all, right?

GhK.

 

[freethinker44]

I propose logic is flawed and therefore it is illogical not to believe in God.

Here I will help you out a little bit.

In order for this argument to have any merit, you must first agree that some things are logical. Then you must define what is logical and what is not logical. In this case you are trying to disprove the argument that something cannot be something and not something at the same time. My argument doesn't completely rest on this but it would definitely get you some cool points if you disprove it.

 

[freethinker44]

As above in 343 we all have our own logic so logically speaking you have proven as some of us do not accept your logic.

Nope, logic is objective. You can claim to have your own logic, but you would be wrong. And either way, my argument is true whether anyone is there to have an opinion about it or not. That is what objective means. You can't logically give a rock properties it doesn't possess just because you claim to have your own logic, you might have your own logic, but that just means you're wrong.

 

[Humanistheart]

I recently heard about TAG (transcendental argument for god), and it seems strange to me why christians would use this argument. Not only does TAG not prove god exists, but I find it to be strong proof that god CANNOT exist.

A rock will always be a rock even under a different name or if there no one there to label a rock it will still be a rock. So the logic is absolute, which would mean god cannot be an absolute being and still exist.

Is that the case? What if the rock is ground up to dust and mixed in with dirt. Wouldn't it eventually be absored by plants growing out of said dirt thereby changing it's makeup?

In 'disproving' a god or religion I think it's important to keep something in mind you cannot prove a negative. You can disprove an arugment, but since there is no sound theory behind the Tag arguement it's unnesseary. A better example might be using their dogma. For example christians claim their jesus is the messiah, but anyone familiar with the messianic prophicies knows that jesus did not fullfill them. Thus the christian version of god is false and so is the religion. Or so you'd think, but in order to keep the religion going people gloss over this fact, and find all manner of excuses and justifications to allow them to continue to ignore it. Once a religions been debunked the religoun goes into over time to change their cannon or beliefs to survive.

 

[Archer]

Is that the case? What if the rock is ground up to dust and mixed in with dirt. Wouldn't it eventually be absored by plants growing out of said dirt thereby changing it's makeup?

In 'disproving' a god or religion I think it's important to keep something in mind you cannot prove a negative. You can disprove an arugment, but since there is no sound theory behind the Tag arguement it's unnesseary. A better example might be using their dogma. For example christians claim their jesus is the messiah, but anyone familiar with the messianic prophicies knows that jesus did not fullfill them. Thus the christian version of god is false and so is the religion. Or so you'd think, but in order to keep the religion going people gloss over this fact, and find all manner of excuses and justifications to allow them to continue to ignore it. Once a religions been debunked the religoun goes into over time to change their cannon or beliefs to survive.

I do not follow biblical teachings only what I read and I do agree to a point but do realize the Jews never accepted the first coming some do. I accept that there is a higher power and people try to reach out for that power.

I do not conform to the lies that are told by organized religion.

I said that to qualify the following: It is easy to understand why people would be an Atheist as the lies that people tell themselves are sickening. Most people of faith have no foot to stand on, gay's and women in clergy? marrying two men? these churches should lose their tax exempt status.

My logic is that I am a rational educated person that believes in evolution and science and no matter how much I try to deny the existence of God I find myself talking to him/her/them, there is just so much we do not know.

 

[Archer]

Of course it's logical for people that are on a low wage bracket to pay a lower tax rate. If you don't understand that people need enough money to live then you are very much misinformed about the state of the economy. If you earn lots of money, you pay more tax to support those who don't have lots of money. It's a left wing concept though, so I can understand why some people might not like it (Although I don't really if you see what I mean).

LOL I know all about it and don't like it either, some pay no TAX!!! and receive thousands in eic. I have seen people screw the system and take home over 8000 by not getting married and taking advantage of the system.

I do not think you are wrong! I don't think you are wright! I think we have differing points of view. My question is why would someone try to use logic to disprove the illogical? I accept that there are things way beyond our understanding and I just feel and know things and don't know any other way to explain it.

 

[The Neo Nerd]

I propose logic is flawed and therefore it is illogical not to believe in God.

It is illogical to believe in something youve never seen.

-Q

 

[Archer]

Ok walk off of a Cliff. I don't think you will as you know the effects of what you can not see. Stand in a barrel full of argon. Nope you will die. Do you believe in these though you have never seen them?

 

[Beaudreaux]

I am an alpha male in all respects and logically should have many wives yet we do not follow this logic which is even presented in the Bible.

Is your current wife OK with this idea?

Why do we not execute the miscreants as outlined in the Bible as it is logical.

You find it logical to execute homosexuals? People who disrespect their parents?

Science has proven pork is bad! The Old Testament backs up that and would it not be logical not to eat it?

Dude......I don't even know how to talk to you... :faint:

There are many more examples of truth and philosophy in the Bible that are true and logical yet we cant follow that logic. It is just illogical how we can call ourselves a developed and rational species and not focus on the important things in life and waste time and money on satellites and trips to space while the world goes hungry and disease runs rampant.

Illogical, Illogical, Illogical, Illogical does not compute.

Perhaps it would be good to hear what you think logic is.

 

[richardlowellt]

Ok walk off of a Cliff. I don't think you will as you know the effects of what you can not see. Stand in a barrel full of argon. Nope you will die. Do you believe in these though you have never seen them?

Both are stupid examples, I fully know the effects of gravity as does anyone who has ever stumbled or fallen, and anyone curious enough can know the properties of Argon Gas. I also have never seen cosmic rays, or radiation, but know full well the effects on a human body, do a better job of trying to support your invisible deity.

 

[Thief]

And here is where cause falls short.
I will play the devil's advocate.

Pre-singularity existence cannot be explained.
There are no terms available.
All is void. No science.

No plan can be formulated.
No terms are available.
No experience or direction can be applied. No logic.

However...(no longer devil's advocate)
We exist. The universe exists.
Science requires cause and effect.
Logic is similar.

A creation is a reflection of it's cause. I believe in God.

Try and try again.

 

[ThereIsNoSpoon]

... that still wouldn't refute my argument because I argue that it is logically impossible for god to exist so whatever stamped that on the rock could not have been a god. So I ask again, can you logically prove god exists.

Could you point me to the post of your argument ?

 

[emiliano]

Genetic mutation is sometimes random and sometimes caused by variables in the environment but the variables are still random so it either random mutations or developed mutations from random events, still random either way.

Natural selection is not random at all.

An analogy I would use is a funnel and different sized marbles, where natural selection is the funnel and genetic mutations are the marbles. If you drop the marbles into the funnel only those that can fit through the hole can move on to the other side. Natural selection is like a funnel forcing random mutations through a hole and only those that are fit to go through can be used for further procreation while those that cannot are discarded.

You are completely right thoug, none of this disproves a god, some versions of god maybe but it isn't definitive .

If we accept this as truth there is another random fortuity event to consider in that this random mutation make the resulting mutant more/better adapted than those that remain true to the species, what would caused natural selection to choose one over the other, what happen to the original? Does Natural selection guided the changes, if is guided it isn’t random.

 

[Archer]

Both are stupid examples, I fully know the effects of gravity as does anyone who has ever stumbled or fallen, and anyone curious enough can know the properties of Argon Gas. I also have never seen cosmic rays, or radiation, but know full well the effects on a human body, do a better job of trying to support your invisible deity.

In my mind they are perfect examples!! My faith in the higher powers is such that I have seen what you can not or will not. Furthermore God can not be disproved just as love can not.

Do you feel love? Some of us feel god.

 

[Archer]

Is your current wife OK with this idea?

Does not matter it is illegal!

You find it logical to execute homosexuals?

I said miscreants, not socially different.

People who disrespect their parents?

It sure would make a difference if kids thought they might die if they did not listen.

Dude......I don't even know how to talk to you... :faint:

And I pose the same question? Where can we reach common ground? Finding common ground usually lends itself to a fruitful discussion.

Would you not agree that eating too much pork is bad for the heart?

Eating undercooked pork is risky?

Perhaps it would be good to hear what you think logic is.

1. The study of the principles of reasoning, especially of the structure of propositions as distinguished from their content and of method and validity in deductive reasoning.


2. a. A system of reasoning: Aristotle's logic.
b. A mode of reasoning: By that logic, we should sell the company tomorrow.
c. The formal, guiding principles of a discipline, school, or science.

3. Valid reasoning: Your paper lacks the logic to prove your thesis.
4. The relationship between elements and between an element and the whole in a set of objects, individuals, principles, or events: There's a certain logic to the motion of rush-hour traffic.


I have had a different life than you therefore my logic is not the same as yours. I hold certian ideals therefore it is illogical for me not to believe the way I do. I may disagree with your logic but it is no more wrong than mine if the reasoning behind it can be shown.