Do any Christians disagree with this...

[HoldemDB9]

Than I say to both of you Draka and Holdem, that you need to be careful when defining christian. Because Drake you just said the christians claim you have to be a christian to get into heaven. That statement is true, BUT what is it to be a crhistian. That is where discussion leads back to the bible. To be a christian is simply to have to laws of God in your heart, as stated in the book of Romans. As a result, if you have these laws in your heart and God saves because of that, you are a christian. See what I mean? This is different than a christian that claims you have to do x, y, and z to become a chrstian. Because you then fall right back into the category of unequality. That is not what the bible teaches, so it is up to you guys to learn more about the bible if you are interested, or just continue discussing this with christians that are only representing the x,y,z doctrine.
Remember Jesus came and fulfilled the law, he became everything for us. So the power of Jesus, is the same power that would be in the boys heart in india, that may be learning Hinduism. In his heart he has it all figured out, but outwordly he may be learning about Hindu or whatever.

So are you saying here that it is possible for one to actually be - in Gods eyes - a Christian, even though this person did not claim to be Christian, even though this person did not believe in the Bible. They are Christian because of their actions, not just because of their beliefs, is this what you are saying?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

So are you saying here that it is possible for one to actually be - in Gods eyes - a Christian, even though this person did not claim to be Christian, even though this person did not believe in the Bible. They are Christian because of their actions, not just because of their beliefs, is this what you are saying?

I am saying that is what Romans 2: vs 11-16 says:
11: For there is no respect of persons with God.
12: For as many as have sinned without law shall also perish without law: and as many as have sinned in the law shall be judged by the law;
13: (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified.
14: For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves:
15: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another
16: In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel.

 

[Beaudreaux]

let's agree to the frst part
Those who have an equal chance to become Muslim
If everyone had an equal chance to become Muslim
Ok?
after that could it "be"
then there would be the same percentage of Muslims in every country on the planet.
though those people can either believe or not believe in Islam
???
No
then admit Allah is just. Here is Quran,bible,vedas ,atheism
god wanted it to be a one's personal choice
we all who knew this message have te same chance to accept or not.
It's better to admit

Zhakir, perhaps this illustration will explain.

Let's say that we take 100 people and ask them to each think of a playing card. They may select any of the 52 playing cards in the deck. We then ask them to write down their selection on a piece of paper. Now, it is an undeniable truth that they will either choose the 3 of Clubs or they will not, correct? Is that an equal chance? What do you think the chances are that half of the people would select the 3 of clubs?

Just because there is a binary choice does not mean the chances are 50/50.

 

[werallwrong]

God takes that all into consideration. You have no idea how many thousands of ministries are out there making it happen in other countries and giving people a chance. Remember when the Gospel is preached to every man in every nation, then He will return. Those who do not know the Truth cannot be accountable, its those that know it and turn away from it that commit sin.
I hope this helps.

 

[HoldemDB9]

God takes that all into consideration. You have no idea how many thousands of ministries are out there making it happen in other countries and giving people a chance. Remember when the Gospel is preached to every man in every nation, then He will return. Those who do not know the Truth cannot be accountable, its those that know it and turn away from it that commit sin.
I hope this helps.

I am not talking about people who have never heard of Jesus. I am talking about those who have heard of Jesus, but who have not had a good enough chance to believe in him.

For example, a child born in Saudi Arabia has LESS of a chance at becoming Christian than a child born in the USA. This makes God unfair, unless he lets non-Christians into heaven or unless he gives non-believers another chance after they die.

So, do you believe that non-Christians can enter heaven? And, do you believe that non-Christians can get another chance to accept Jesus after they die?

 

[HoldemDB9]

Just because there is a binary choice does not mean the chances are 50/50.

Since he said he would accept the following bet, I don't think he understands this.

The bet was: We pick 100 babies who are born in America and we follow them through life, for everyone that becomes Christian you give me $100 and for everyone that becomes Muslim I give you $300.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

God takes that all into consideration. You have no idea how many thousands of ministries are out there making it happen in other countries and giving people a chance. Remember when the Gospel is preached to every man in every nation, then He will return. Those who do not know the Truth cannot be accountable, its those that know it and turn away from it that commit sin.
I hope this helps.

I represent the bible as you say you do, but you did not think your post out very clearly. While it is true there are many out the in the world, that does not hold water for those in the regions like in africa or anywhere else years before the missionaries arrived. There may have been children that were born and then dies early.
That is why your theology is wrong if you claim to teach the bible. Maybe not all you teaching, but this one at least.
That is why we have to look at the chapters in Romans that explain God does not need missionaries to save.

 

[Beaudreaux]

God takes that all into consideration. You have no idea how many thousands of ministries are out there making it happen in other countries and giving people a chance. Remember when the Gospel is preached to every man in every nation, then He will return. Those who do not know the Truth cannot be accountable, its those that know it and turn away from it that commit sin.
I hope this helps.

So...people who have not heard the Gospel are not accountable and will not be punished for eternity....but after a missionary preaches to them they have a chance to reject God and suffer for eternity in hell...

Why in the world would you send missionaries out to spread the word?!?!?! Why not let these people die without the chance of eternal torment?

 

[Beaudreaux]

Since he said he would accept the following bet, I don't think he understands this.

The bet was: We pick 100 babies who are born in America and we follow them through life, for everyone that becomes Christian you give me $100 and for everyone that becomes Muslim I give you $300.

Sweet! DRINKS ARE ON HOLDEM!!!!!!

 

[darkmage121]

In the Wiccan faith, there is no Heaven or Hell. First their is reincarnation, then eventually, all souls will come to reside in the Summerland. Punishment for your deeds will happen there, but other than that, everyone goes to the same place regardless.

 

[roli]

Ok, thank you for answering.

Now, do you realize what you have just said? You have just said that there is not an equal percentage of Christians in each country, right?

And do you realize that if everyone got an EQUAL chance, then there would be an EQUAL percentage of Christians in EVERY country on the planet?

Like you said there is not the same percentage of Christians in every country, therefore not everyone has had an equal chance of becoming Christian. You have just admitted that your God is unfair.

And so you actually think that everybody who has heard of God and christianity has converted to it.

Your out there Holdem.... and too far fo me to reach !!!!

 

[BucephalusBB]

And so you actually think that everybody who has heard of God and christianity has converted to it.

You actually think that every kid who only heard of christianity has the same chance as the kids who walks by the church every day, see christianity all around them and has a higher chance of marrying another christian?

 

[HoldemDB9]

And so you actually think that everybody who has heard of God and christianity has converted to it.

Your out there Holdem.... and too far fo me to reach !!!!

roli, I'm starting to think that you are too far out there for anybody to ever reach. I know you're nowhere near as stupid as some of the other Christians who I've argued with on this matter, so are you just being dishonest in this reply or what?

Go and read my reply again. WHERE did I say that I thought everyone who has heard of Christianity would convert? Where did I say that roli? I said that if everyone had an equal chance to become Christian, as you say, then there would be the same percentage of Christians in every country on the planet. Now you have admitted that there is not the same percentage of Christians in every country on the planet, therefore admitting that not everyone gets an equal chance. Understand that? Its not too hard.

If you took two groups of 10,000,000 people. And each group had the SAME chance of becoming Christian, there would be an equal amount of Christians in BOTH groups. If they both had an EQUAL chance, then you would NOT get 2% Christian in group A and 80% in group B. Understand now? Again, I am NOT saying that they have no chance or that they have no choice, I am saying that they have a SMALLER chance and that their "choice" is heavily influenced by their surroundings.

 

[Zhakir]

Darka,Holdem
You think by only hearing the message,people aren't equal,the Quran was made to be a miracle.
That's the reason why Allah said
2:23
And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like there unto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true. But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.
If you aren't replying to this,
Quran Miracles - Miracles of the Qur'an
then don't talk to me, fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.

 

[HoldemDB9]

Darka,Holdem
You think by only hearing the message,people aren't equal

No Zhakir, we don't think, we know. But at least finally, you can see exactly where the disagreement is.

You are saying that no matter where you are born, or what your circumstances, by simply hearing of Islam, you have had the same equal chance as anyone else.

We are saying that this is not true. We are saying that some have a smaller chance than others, because they are going to be heavily influenced by their family and their surroundings. For example, a child born into a strict Christian family, does not have the same chance as a child born into a strict Muslim family to accept Allah. Understand what we are saying now?

 

[Zhakir]

Out of context quotion?
You think by only hearing the message,people aren't equal,the Quran was made to be a miracle.
That's the reason why Allah said
2:23
And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like there unto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true. But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.
If you aren't replying to this,
Quran Miracles - Miracles of the Qur'an
then don't talk to me, fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.
This is what i said reply

 

[HoldemDB9]

Out of context quotion?
You think by only hearing the message,people aren't equal,the Quran was made to be a miracle.
That's the reason why Allah said
2:23
And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like there unto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true. But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.
If you aren't replying to this,
Quran Miracles - Miracles of the Qur'an
then don't talk to me, fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.
This is what i said reply

Out of context quoting? What are you talking about? You are saying that by hearing of Islam, THAT makes everything all equal.

You are wrong. That is a fact. I don't have much more to say, you have been proved wrong and all you keep doing is repeating yourself.

 

[Zhakir]

Now you quoted in context, but didn't reply!.

 

[HoldemDB9]

Now you quoted in context, but didn't reply!.

So just to clarify, is this what you are saying: By hearing of Islam, THAT makes everything all equal?

Just so I know, is that what you are saying?

 

[Zhakir]

You think by only hearing the message,people aren't equal,the Quran was made to be a miracle.
That's the reason why Allah said
2:23
And if ye are in doubt as to what We have revealed from time to time to Our servant, then produce a Sura like there unto; and call your witnesses or helpers (If there are any) besides Allah, if your (doubts) are true. But if ye cannot- and of a surety ye cannot- then fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.
If you aren't replying to this,
Quran Miracles - Miracles of the Qur'an
then don't talk to me, fear the Fire whose fuel is men and stones,- which is prepared for those who reject Faith.
This is what i said reply