How do you know what is "revealed" ?
You believe in a human who tells you so. Right?
Regards
Tom
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Do Atheists/Agnostics/Skeptics have a scripture?!
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
You believe in a human who tells you so. Right?
Regards
Tom
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
How can you ask this question with a straight face???
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Is it difficult to answer this question for you? Please express your difficulty, may be anybody could help one out. Right?
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
How does one know as to what is not revealed?
One believes a person who says about a Revelation that it is not revealed. Right? Please
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
My basic interest is reading a revealed Scripture.
Some times my friends recommend and insist that I should read a book written by an Atheist/Agnostic/Skeptic. It happened really, they recommended and insisted to read "God is not Great" by Christopher Hitchens. When I finished it my faith was increased on "G-d is Great". Christopher Hitchens, not a single reasonable and valid argument he could give.
Regards
In the absence of very strong or very personal reasons, people are expected to to attribute a divine author behind things.
If for no other reason, because that is a strong claim that can't be evidenced.
Sorry, can you put that in some other wording?
You are set on believing in God. It is not HItchens' fault.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
My religion is Islam. Ahmadiyya is a movement in it. Ahmadiyya got established in fulfillment many Prophecies in Quran by G-d and by Muhammad in Hadith. The prophecies were also in almost all revealed religions of the world for coming of a End-Time Reformer. Right?
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
It is just one's opinion. I never agreed with it, ever. Right?
Regards
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
That is one aspect that I started the thread "Do Atheists/Agnostics/Skeptics have a scripture?!"
So your question is a circular question as is your argument. Right?
Regards
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paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I read Torah from cover to cover. I read OT, from cover to cover. I read NT from cover to cover. I read Yesna which is inclusive of Gathas, from cover to cover. I read Bhagwad Gits from cover to cover. I read Gospel of Buddha from cover to cover. I read Dhammapada from cover to cover. I am reading Yajurveda from the very beginning and right now I am at Chapter 34 Verse1.
When I will finish Yajurveda, I intend to read Rigveda.
All interested from a revealed religion or from a no-religion could join its study with me. I intend to start it sometimes next weak Insh-Allah G-d/YHVH/Brahman/Ahura-Mazda/Tao/Waheguru willing.
One may like to join its study, no harm, no compulsion. Right? Please
Regards
gnostic
The Lost One
You don't know how to read, do you?
I wasn't referring to skepticism, atheism or agnosticism, in my reply to you.
I was replying to you, about YOU and YOUR POSITION AS AN AHMADI.
And atheism, agnosticism and skepticism are not religions. These are not non-revealed religions.
When I am talking about NON-REVEALED religions, I am talking about (non-revealed) religions, like Zoroastrianism, or the Dharma religions like Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism. Another non-revealed religions are Chinese Taoism or the Japanese Shintoism, or any ancient polytheistic religions (eg from ancient Egypt, Sumer, Babylonia, Greece, Scandinavia, etc). All these religions are "non-revealed", of which 3 of them in the list above, your Ahmadiyya claimed 3 people (Zoroaster, Krishna and the Buddha) to be prophets.
Any Dharma religions are non-revealed religions.
Also, Ahmadiyya claimed that Confucius was a prophet in Ahmadiyya. Except that Confucius was a philosopher, and Confucianism is philosophy, not a religion.
Third, you wrote:
Yes, I know that Ahmadiyya is a movement or sect in Islam.
But the majority of Muslims, the two largest groups (sects) - Sunni and Shiites - rejected your tiny, less than 1% Ahmadiyya as being not Islam, because of very idea that Mirza Ghulam Ahmadi appointed himself as the Second Messiah or the Second Coming of Jesus.
The Sunni, which comprised 87 to 90 percent of world population of Muslims, see Mirza as nothing more than a liar and a heretic.
Most non-Ahmadi also rejected the Ahmadiyya claim that Zoroaster, Krishna, Buddha and Confucius to be prophets for Islam.
When nearly 100% of Muslims have rejected Ahmadi as a messiah or Ahmadiyya as Islam, than it is not merely "my opinion" that don't agree with you, but those opinions of 99% of Muslims also disagree with your belief.
If 99% of Muslims in the world are not Ahmadis, then you, paarsurrey, cannot speak for Islam in general.
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
The answer is no. How's that???
Milton Platt
Well-Known Member
Please provide a couple of his arguments and give your rebuttals. Everyone would be interested, I believe/
Before that question becomes a logical question, one must demonstrate that there is such a thing as "revealed scripture "
Nobody ever does that.
You have much more faith in fallible humans than I do. I don't believe humans claiming to speak for God. You do.
That is the difference between your beliefs and mine. You believe that humans know about god and I see no reason to think that.
I see no reason to believe that God is limited to the words of human prophets. You do.
Tom
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
One avoided the question? That shows one's weak position. Right? Please
Regards
McBell
Unbound
Yes you are.
Why is it you completely avoid demonstrating that there is such a thing as "revealed scripture"?
I didn't avoid the question. You did.
The question is "Why doesn't God reveal anything? Why is it always humans claiming to speak for God and not God? "
Your unwillingness to answer the question is proof of the weakness of your position. Right?
Regards
Tom
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
You may like to read Christopher Hitchens' book "God is not Great", though no compulsion for one. Then one may give one, repeat one, repeat ONE good argument given by him, if one finds any in the whole book. Members here will be pleased to refute his argument. Right? Please
Regards
You have just been asked to present a few of those, haven't you?
A quick glance shows that he is not really trying to argue nearly so much as he is reminding us of how dangerous religious conviction can be.
If you want us to present arguments for atheism, against revealed religion or even for anti-theism, I will be glad to provide some. But I thought you had meant to say that you found some in that book, so it is fair to ask what they are.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Vedas are a revealed scripture:
"The Vedas area also called Shruti (heard knowledge). When the Rishis (holy men of pure minds and thoughts) sat in meditation, God revealed unto the Rishis the knowledge of the Vedas and the Vedas are said to be Divine Knowledge. The Rishis, in turn, explained the revealed knowledge to the people."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veda_(disambiguation)
Quran confirms that God had sent prophets/messengers to all nations and people:
[35:24] Thou art only a Warner.
[35:25] Verily, We have sent thee with the truth, as a bearer of glad tidings and as a Warner; and there is no people to whom a Warner has not been sent.
http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?ch=35&verse=24
So, as is claimed, most probably it is a revealed scripture in the origin, like the Torah is a revealed scripture in the origin from God.
Right? Please
Regards