Do atheists believe in Justice?

[Estro Felino]

By capitalized Justice I mean a spiritual principle according to which if someone is guilty, that is, they committed a grave crime (murder, for example) they must atone for that crime, through a proper penalty (according to the criminal code).

But this worldly justice is a fake, phony and unholy justice since innocent people can pay for crimes they didn't commit (on the basis of mistakes made by the prosecutors both in good faith, but most of the times, in bad faith). And murderers can get away with murders thanks to lawyers that in order to have their client acquitted, they would even undersell their own soul to the devil.

At least we theists (Christians or other similar religions) believe in a Supreme God that will judge all those who made others suffer, both unwillingly and willingly.
And as the Bible says, angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just.
The wicked are those who made people suffer out of of selfishness and wickedness. The just are those who pursued justice.

So my question to atheists is: how can you believe life is fair, since according to your beliefs, there is no justice?

Thank you all for your kind answers.

 

[Estro Felino]

I am speaking of Justice as secular principle.

 

[ratiocinator]

Can't speak for atheists in general because, as everybody should know by now, atheism is just not having a belief in God or gods, so, at least in principle, an atheist could believe, for example, in some form of karma and reincarnation.

Speaking for myself:

So my question to atheists is: how can you believe life is fair, since according to your beliefs, there is no justice?

I don't believe life is fair. It seems obviously unfair in many ways; children dying of cancer, for example. All we can do is try to build societies that are as fair and just as possible with respect to those things that are actually under our control.

 

[Estro Felino]

Can't speak for atheists in general because, as everybody should know by now, atheism is just not having a belief in God or gods, so, at least in principle, an atheist could believe, for example, in some form of karma and reincarnation.

Speaking for myself:


I don't believe life is fair. It seems obviously unfair in many ways; children dying of cancer, for example. All we can do is try to build societies that are as fair and just as possible with respect to those things that are actually under our control.

That was a very thorough answer.

 

[Estro Felino]

@LuisDantas
I am interested in your opinion.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

By capitalized Justice I mean a spiritual principle according to which if someone is guilty, that is, they committed a grave crime (murder, for example) they must atone for that crime, through a proper penalty (according to the criminal code).

But this worldly justice is a fake, phony and unholy justice since innocent people can pay for crimes they didn't commit (on the basis of mistakes made by the prosecutors both in good faith, but most of the times, in bad faith). And murderers can get away with murders thanks to lawyers that in order to have their client acquitted, they would even undersell their own soul to the devil.

At least we theists (Christians or other similar religions) believe in a Supreme God that will judge all those who made others suffer, both unwillingly and willingly.
And as the Bible says, angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just.
The wicked are those who made people suffer out of of selfishness and wickedness. The just are those who pursued justice.

So my question to atheists is: how can you believe life is fair, since according to your beliefs, there is no justice?

Thank you all for your kind answers.

No, not me.

 

[Nakosis]

By capitalized Justice I mean a spiritual principle according to which if someone is guilty, that is, they committed a grave crime (murder, for example) they must atone for that crime, through a proper penalty (according to the criminal code).

But this worldly justice is a fake, phony and unholy justice since innocent people can pay for crimes they didn't commit (on the basis of mistakes made by the prosecutors both in good faith, but most of the times, in bad faith). And murderers can get away with murders thanks to lawyers that in order to have their client acquitted, they would even undersell their own soul to the devil.

At least we theists (Christians or other similar religions) believe in a Supreme God that will judge all those who made others suffer, both unwillingly and willingly.
And as the Bible says, angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just.
The wicked are those who made people suffer out of of selfishness and wickedness. The just are those who pursued justice.

So my question to atheists is: how can you believe life is fair, since according to your beliefs, there is no justice?

Thank you all for your kind answers.

I believe in self-interest. So if there exist a threat one ought to protect themselves from that threat. For example you may need to isolate someone who is a threat from society until they are no longer a threat. I never felt a need to make people pay for their crimes. Just a need to neutralize a threat.

I see a need to protect myself. Beyond that I don't feel a need for "justice". If a person stops being a threat, then that's it. Nothing else is needed from them.

 

[Estro Felino]

I believe in self-interest. So if there exist a threat one ought to protect themselves from that threat. For example you may need to isolate someone who is a threat from society until they are no longer a threat. I never felt a need to make people pay for their crimes. Just a need to neutralize a threat.

I understand. But this worldly justice is very flawed because people who threaten the peacefulness of a society cannot be monitored 24/7. No system is omniscient and omnipresent.
Despite the most sophisticated intelligence services, murderers keep murdering innocent people, and criminals keep doing criminal things.

So there is no justice on Earth. I guess as an atheist you should admit to that.

I see a need to protect myself. Beyond that I don't feel a need for "justice". If a person stops being a threat, then that's it. Nothing else is needed from them.

With all due respect... this sounds like the principle of the law of the fittest.
The lion feels the need to protect itself from other predators, and so on. And it has no notion of justice. Lions just mate, sleep and eat.

 

[Estro Felino]

No, not me.

You don't believe in Justice. Right?

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You don't believe in Justice. Right?

No, I don't believe in Justice.

 

[McBell]

By capitalized Justice I mean a spiritual principle according to which if someone is guilty, that is, they committed a grave crime (murder, for example) they must atone for that crime, through a proper penalty (according to the criminal code).

But this worldly justice is a fake, phony and unholy justice since innocent people can pay for crimes they didn't commit (on the basis of mistakes made by the prosecutors both in good faith, but most of the times, in bad faith). And murderers can get away with murders thanks to lawyers that in order to have their client acquitted, they would even undersell their own soul to the devil.

At least we theists (Christians or other similar religions) believe in a Supreme God that will judge all those who made others suffer, both unwillingly and willingly.
And as the Bible says, angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just.
The wicked are those who made people suffer out of of selfishness and wickedness. The just are those who pursued justice.

So my question to atheists is: how can you believe life is fair, since according to your beliefs, there is no justice?

Thank you all for your kind answers.

ROTFLMAO

At the very least the legal systems the world over actually try to mete out justice.
Sitting around waiting for some "Supreme God" to actually mete out justice is much more a kin to letting them get away with murder....

 

[LuisDantas]

Life is as fair as we, sentient beings, work towards making it fair to the less fortunate.

 

[Estro Felino]

Life is as fair as we, sentient beings, work towards making it fair to the less fortunate.

Good answer.

 

[Esteban X]

Life is fair in the sense that is indifferent. We are barely specks in a vast cosmos.

 

[Estro Felino]

ROTFLMAO

At the very least the legal systems the world over actually try to mete out justice.
Sitting around waiting for some "Supreme God" to actually mete out justice is much more a kin to letting them get away with murder....

Of course.
Through patience and legal means one can try to make worldly justice work as good as possible.
But, unfortunately the powerful will always find ways to manipulate justice and to get away with misdeeds.
Because they have the power. That makes all commoners powerless.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

By capitalized Justice I mean a spiritual principle according to which if someone is guilty, that is, they committed a grave crime (murder, for example) they must atone for that crime, through a proper penalty (according to the criminal code).

But this worldly justice is a fake, phony and unholy justice since innocent people can pay for crimes they didn't commit (on the basis of mistakes made by the prosecutors both in good faith, but most of the times, in bad faith). And murderers can get away with murders thanks to lawyers that in order to have their client acquitted, they would even undersell their own soul to the devil.

At least we theists (Christians or other similar religions) believe in a Supreme God that will judge all those who made others suffer, both unwillingly and willingly.
And as the Bible says, angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just.
The wicked are those who made people suffer out of of selfishness and wickedness. The just are those who pursued justice.

So my question to atheists is: how can you believe life is fair, since according to your beliefs, there is no justice?

Thank you all for your kind answers.

I don't believe life is inherently fair. We humans need to do our best to make it fair in our societies. This is why we have laws and justice systems. But no doubt innocent people will be convicted and guilty people will go free.

 

[Estro Felino]

I don't believe life is inherently fair. We humans need to do our best to make it fair in our societies. This is why we have laws and justice systems. But no doubt innocent people will be convicted and guilty people will go free.

Some people believe they are better than the others so they deserve more than others.
If everyone believes in that unhealthy principle, there will always be abuses of power and injustices.

Do you consider yourself better than others?
Or more deserving than others?

 

[Stevicus]

By capitalized Justice I mean a spiritual principle according to which if someone is guilty, that is, they committed a grave crime (murder, for example) they must atone for that crime, through a proper penalty (according to the criminal code).

But this worldly justice is a fake, phony and unholy justice since innocent people can pay for crimes they didn't commit (on the basis of mistakes made by the prosecutors both in good faith, but most of the times, in bad faith). And murderers can get away with murders thanks to lawyers that in order to have their client acquitted, they would even undersell their own soul to the devil.

At least we theists (Christians or other similar religions) believe in a Supreme God that will judge all those who made others suffer, both unwillingly and willingly.
And as the Bible says, angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just.
The wicked are those who made people suffer out of of selfishness and wickedness. The just are those who pursued justice.

So my question to atheists is: how can you believe life is fair, since according to your beliefs, there is no justice?

Thank you all for your kind answers.

I believe that justice is a human-created concept which likely originated with the social contract and became more developed as society and human politics became more complex.

Without that, then we're just dealing with the forces of nature, which can be cruel, harsh, and unjust. That's the world as it was when humans entered into the picture. If it was created, then that's how it was created. No justice, just certain physical realities and the law of the jungle.

Whoever might have created this place didn't really seem to enter "justice" into the overall equation. Instead, humans had to figure that part out all by themselves. And even then, it's still woefully imperfect and flawed, but there have been those in history who have put in an honest effort. Humans try to do the best they can, but if there's any kind of presumed "justice" in the Afterlife, meted out by a Supreme God, I can't even imagine what that could possibly look like.

One thing that's often emphasized is that God is also very forgiving and merciful towards those who confess their sins and show true contrition and begging for God's forgiveness. Would that be something like a "get out of jail free" card?

 

[Estro Felino]

I believe that justice is a human-created concept which likely originated with the social contract and became more developed as society and human politics became more complex.

I respect that. I believe it deals with a divine concept.
Since humans didn't create it. It comes from God, so it's something metaphysical and perfect.

Without that, then we're just dealing with the forces of nature, which can be cruel, harsh, and unjust. That's the world as it was when humans entered into the picture. If it was created, then that's how it was created. No justice, just certain physical realities and the law of the jungle.

Absolutely flawless reasoning.
But the reason is those physical realities which are free to unleash themselves spontaneously, and God cannot stop them , because He respects free will.
God controls the otherworldly dimension.

Whoever might have created this place didn't really seem to enter "justice" into the overall equation. Instead, humans had to figure that part out all by themselves. And even then, it's still woefully imperfect and flawed, but there have been those in history who have put in an honest effort. Humans try to do the best they can, but if there's any kind of presumed "justice" in the Afterlife, meted out by a Supreme God, I can't even imagine what that could possibly look like.

It's perfectly understandable.
I always try to put myself into atheists' shoes and yes, I do understand that we theists can really sound like deluded people.
But even the Greeks in the myth of Pandora said that the only virtue left in the vase was Hope.
Is hope an illusion? Maybe.

One thing that's often emphasized is that God is also very forgiving and merciful towards those who confess their sins and show true contrition and begging for God's forgiveness. Would that be something like a "get out of jail free" card?

That's a good point.
But that's what's implemented in our judicial system.
Those who confess to the crime and cooperate with justice, so they repent, they benefit from incredibly high leniency. Sentence reductions.
Those who hijack investigations, those who won't confess or worse, take confessions back are punished with life sentences.


Same thing as for Godly Justice.

 

[osgart]

True justice can always be ignored and disregarded in the kind of universe we live in. There's no authority presiding over it.

True justice is the only way to live any kind of quality of life. Humanity invented democracy for all perhaps recognizing that if others won't respect your rights your own rights will be worth nothing productive. So a sense of fairness, trustworthiness, and deserve is the only wise course of action. There is no society if those three virtues are not taken seriously.

Nature does not exist caring about true justice.
There's no right to life in the wild.

As an atheist myself, I do have a heart for true justice. I don't think there is a pre-existing form of true justice. It's something that works out to be the best way to live. It's an ongoing process of discovering what it works out to be within the spectrum of human natures. I think only intelligent individuals feel the weight of its necessity.

The laws that are made for all are the laws that we obligated ourselves to live by. In life we have people who play justice for me, and none for you. They only heed justice as a means of gain as it suits them. Plenty of warped ideas of justice exist out there.