Do atheists believe in Justice?

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Some people believe they are better than the others so they deserve more than others.
If everyone believes in that unhealthy principle, there will always be abuses of power and injustices.

I agree this is the case and will always be the case. It sucks.

Do you consider yourself better than others?
Or more deserving than others?

Depends on the context. In most things I am either better than most or not better than most, depends on the subject. Even when it comes to being a human being. If we define a good human as one who has empathy, helps others, sympathy, loves others etc, then there are people better than me and worse than me at being a human.

The only thing I think I deserve is what I honestly work for or what someone wants to give or do for me. Or if I have done wrong I deserve a punishment or consequence etc. We deserve things based on our actions and not anything else.

 

[Estro Felino]

I agree this is the case and will always be the case. It sucks.

Definitely. That is why we rely on Godly Justice. We theists, I mean.

Depends on the context. In most things I am either better than most or not better than most, depends on the subject. Even when it comes to being a human being. If we define a good human as one who has empathy, helps others, sympathy, loves others etc, then there are people better than me and worse than me at being a human.

I think I have got what you mean.
But as a Christian, I was taught humility that enables me to understand that my fellow human being has the same exact right to happiness as me, neither more nor less.
And if I try to make others unhappy, because I consider my happiness more important than others' happiness, I will disappoint God and God can punish me in the afterlife, unless I repent.

For instance, I am an educated person who has a law degree. But I don't consider myself superior to a fishmonger that has no high school diploma

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Definitely. That is why we rely on Godly Justice. We theists, I mean.

Does this cause less motivation to work for justice in this life?

I think I have got what you mean.
But as a Christian, I was taught humility that enables me to understand that my fellow human being has the same exact right to happiness as me, neither more nor less.

I agree we all have a right to happiness as long as that happiness does not cause suffering to others.

And if I try to make others unhappy, because I consider my happiness more important than others' happiness, I will disappoint God and God can punish me in the afterlife, unless I repent.

I can have the same ethic without a god.

For instance, I am an educated person who has a law degree. But I don't consider myself superior to a fishmonger that has no high school diploma

Superior in what way? It is ok to say you are superior to that person when it comes to law knowledge. But I agree just because you have a law degree does not make you a better human than a person without a high school diploma.

 

[Mock Turtle]

By capitalized Justice I mean a spiritual principle according to which if someone is guilty, that is, they committed a grave crime (murder, for example) they must atone for that crime, through a proper penalty (according to the criminal code).

But this worldly justice is a fake, phony and unholy justice since innocent people can pay for crimes they didn't commit (on the basis of mistakes made by the prosecutors both in good faith, but most of the times, in bad faith). And murderers can get away with murders thanks to lawyers that in order to have their client acquitted, they would even undersell their own soul to the devil.

At least we theists (Christians or other similar religions) believe in a Supreme God that will judge all those who made others suffer, both unwillingly and willingly.
And as the Bible says, angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just.
The wicked are those who made people suffer out of of selfishness and wickedness. The just are those who pursued justice.

So my question to atheists is: how can you believe life is fair, since according to your beliefs, there is no justice?

Thank you all for your kind answers.

As a mostly atheist, I don't think life is essentially fair (probably never will be), although we should try our best to secure justice for those who have wronged and those wronged. The wealthy seem to get away with far too much - often having the resources to secure better representation, for example, or elude prosecution - whilst those economically poor or damaged in some way (mentally perhaps) often don't get that which might prevent them from committing wrongs in the first place.

But we should try our best to secure justice now because if there is no God (and likely no afterlife or anything similar) then we are wasting our time in expecting justice in some future existence. And this is a better basis for most things (like living the best life one can), given there is not sufficient evidence for expectations of an afterlife being fulfilled. Also, this tends to avoid such nastiness as suicide-bombing where the killers possibly assume some nice existence awaits them.

 

[Estro Felino]

Does this cause less motivation to work for justice in this life?

Absolutely no. The striving for justice is restless and always there.
But there are wicked people who subdue others. And this makes impossible to do justice.
Because the law of the fittest prevails.
Will you deny it?

 

[Estro Felino]

As a mostly atheist, I don't think life is essentially fair (probably never will be), although we should try our best to secure justice for those who have wronged and those wronged. The wealthy seem to get away with far too much - often having the resources to secure better representation, for example, or elude prosecution - whilst those economically poor or damaged in some way (mentally perhaps) often don't get that which might prevent them from committing wrongs in the first place.

But we should try our best to secure justice now because if there is no God (and likely no afterlife or anything similar) then we are wasting our time in expecting justice in some future existence. And this is a better basis for most things (like living the best life one can), given there is not sufficient evidence for expectations of an afterlife being fulfilled. Also, this tends to avoid such nastiness as suicide-bombing where the killers possibly assume some nice existence awaits them.

That's a very sensible approach.
But my thirst for justice is like something that makes me restless.
I will never be happy, unless God does justice.
I will never be happy, unless I find out who really killed JFK in Dallas, and whether the CIA was in on it.

 

[Mock Turtle]

That's a very sensible approach.
But my thirst for justice is like something that makes me restless.
I will never be happy, unless God does justice.
I will never be happy, unless I find out who really killed JFK in Dallas, and whether the CIA was in on it.

And by the way, I know someone who told me that now Kissinger is in Hell.
So Godly Justice works like a charm.

Well I feel the same as to JFK but it just gets binned along with all the other things I would like to know but never will.

 

[Nakosis]

I understand. But this worldly justice is very flawed because people who threaten the peacefulness of a society cannot be monitored 24/7. No system is omniscient and omnipresent.
Despite the most sophisticated intelligence services, murderers keep murdering innocent people, and criminals keep doing criminal things.

So there is no justice on Earth. I guess as an atheist you should admit to that.

What is justice? An eye for an eye? Yes, I see no benefit it that for me.

With all due respect... this sounds like the principle of the law of the fittest.
The lion feels the need to protect itself from other predators, and so on. And it has no notion of justice. Lions just mate, sleep and eat.

IMO, the final reality is might makes right. Regardless of how any feel about it.
However how I see it best is the stay out of each others way. Try to find happiness while doing your best to avoid screwing up anyone else's life.
If society can help with that, great. If not, I'm on my own.

 

[Estro Felino]

Well I feel the same as to JFK but it just get binned along with all the other things I would like to know but never will.

That's why I will happy when I die. Because God will answer all my questions, including this about Kennedy.

 

[Eddi]

Strikes me as a rather bizarre and insulting question......

 

[Estro Felino]

What is justice? An eye for an eye? Yes, I see no benefit it that for me.

Dante calls it contrappasso.
Well...I think it's a bit cheeky to expect an award from God, if one is a Nazi in an extermination camp.

 

[Estro Felino]

Strikes me as a rather bizarre and insulting question......

Considering how blunt and crass sometimes atheists are in their threads, (Towards theists), I mean...I was pretty polite and respectful.

 

[Nakosis]

Dante calls it contrappasso.
Well...I think it's a bit cheeky to expect an award from God, if one is a Nazi in an extermination camp.

Which do you think they seek in Gaza? Justice or freedom from threat?

 

[Estro Felino]

Which do you think they seek in Gaza? Justice or freedom from threat?

I have no idea, honestly.
As a Christian, I desire peace. I desire peace to triumph in people's hearts.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

By capitalized Justice I mean a spiritual principle according to which if someone is guilty, that is, they committed a grave crime (murder, for example) they must atone for that crime, through a proper penalty (according to the criminal code).

But this worldly justice is a fake, phony and unholy justice since innocent people can pay for crimes they didn't commit (on the basis of mistakes made by the prosecutors both in good faith, but most of the times, in bad faith). And murderers can get away with murders thanks to lawyers that in order to have their client acquitted, they would even undersell their own soul to the devil.

At least we theists (Christians or other similar religions) believe in a Supreme God that will judge all those who made others suffer, both unwillingly and willingly.
And as the Bible says, angels shall come forth and sever the wicked from among the just.
The wicked are those who made people suffer out of of selfishness and wickedness. The just are those who pursued justice.

So my question to atheists is: how can you believe life is fair, since according to your beliefs, there is no justice?

Thank you all for your kind answers.

Because life isn't fair, that's why. And that's also why -- given your argument above -- we are atheists. To have to wait until you die to get "justice" from God is just rubbish.

 

[Nakosis]

I have no idea, honestly.
As a Christian, I desire peace. I desire peace to triumph in people's hearts.

Peace, with no regard for justice. Is that truly Christian?
I'm all for it but I'm an atheist.

 

[Estro Felino]

Peace, with no regard for justice. Is that truly Christian?
I'm all for it but I'm an atheist.

Only God can judge and condemn people, in the afterlife.
I cannot replace God because I am not God.

 

[Estro Felino]

Because life isn't fair, that's why. And that's also why -- given your argument above -- we are atheists. To have to wait until you die to get "justice" from God is just rubbish.

But we are mortals...not immortals. So that's how I interpret death,

 

[Eddi]

Considering how blunt and crass sometimes atheists are in their threads, (Towards theists), I mean...I was pretty polite and respectful.

I think you are being too quick to judge a very large and diverse set of people

Being an Atheist has nothing to do with your moral character

And being a Theist doesn't either

 

[Estro Felino]

I think you are being too quick to judge a very large and diverse set of people

Being an Atheist has nothing to do with your moral character

And being a Theist doesn't either

That's how I asked and I didn't express judgments.