Do atheists believe in magnetism?

[It Aint Necessarily So]

If you never used "listen to God" faculty then you can't speak on it, it's just hearsay, not personal experience.

I am speaking from personal experience. I'm a former Christian who once believed that he was experiencing the Holy Spirit. I became a Christian in my late teens, and agreed to suspend disbelief to walk a season in those shoes to see how well they fit, that is, to see if it would begin to make sense. My first congregation had a charismatic pastor that could create a kind of euphoria, which I understood as the Holy Spirit that had been promised would be there. This was while I was away in the military. Upon discharge, I returned to my home state, where I proceeded to try about a half dozen more congregations, all of which were lifeless. It was then that I realized that what I had been feeling was not the Holy Spirit, which would have followed me back to California. Eventually, I realized that the promises were false, and the doctrine never did congeal or make sense, so, like a pair of ill fitting shoes, I stepped out of religion and found humanism - much better fit.

So, I know what people who claim to have a personal relationship with God or who claim to have compelling evidence that God is real are actually experiencing. I know what changes were necessary for me to participate - the suspension of disbelief. That is what is meant by tuning into God - letting down the critical thinking defenses.

Tuning in to the Divine (God) does not imply to not use discrimination, common sense and other given faculties

You just read how that turned out. The evidence that I accumulated after discharge in those lifeless congregations was now being evaluated critically. I was no longer suspending disbelief, and that led me back to atheism. Faith and reason are antithetical. One can make reasoned arguments dependent on faith-based premises as the Scholastics did in the Middle Ages, but they are never sound arguments if the premises aren't established as fact. And one must never train his reasoning faculty on the faith-based belief itself, which reason says to not accept as true until evidenced.

 

[KWED]

So how do you decide what conditions for the test are valid or not?

Depends on the subject and what is being tested for.

A light bulb is very reliable when connected to power. When not it does not work.

You monitor whether power is flowing to the bulb circuit.
You can then see whether the bulb works when there is no power, and when there is power.
You repeat this experiment to build a volume of reliable data.

 

[KWED]

There are a lot of approaches suggested in various belief systems.

sometimes something simple like mediation, prayer or reading sacred texts and observing how you feel.

You haven't studied any science, have you?

 

[Balthazzar]

You haven't studied any science, have you?

On quantum levels, and testing principles that involve emotion and mind, and how certain things affect the psychology of people, would accumulated data of same or similar affects be viewed as verifiable evidence, objective enough to be deemed scientific?

 

[KWED]

On quantum levels,

Huh?

and testing principles that involve emotion and mind, and how certain things affect the psychology of people, would accumulated data of same or similar affects be viewed as verifiable evidence, objective enough to be deemed scientific?

How would you objectively and verifiably test subjective emotions and psychological responses?

 

[KWED]

So, I know what people who claim to have a personal relationship with God or who claim to have compelling evidence that God is real are actually experiencing.

I suspect the impending arrival of a No True Scotsman.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

On quantum levels, and testing principles that involve emotion and mind, and how certain things affect the psychology of people, would accumulated data of same or similar affects be viewed as verifiable evidence, objective enough to be deemed scientific?

That's why science does peer review.
Or, astronomers noticed an anomaly in Neptune's orbit, some numbers were crunched based on Newton's Laws, the existence of another planet was predicted and lo and behold Neptune was discovered.
Or, observations were made, a solar eclipse documented, evidence gathered, some numbers where crunched and lo and behold we found Einstein's Theory of General Relativity is right.
It also turns out we have this objective language to communicate and express such things. It's called mathematics.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Show just this much evidence for the existence of gods.

 

[Truth in love]

So, don't believe it. What's the big deal?

BTW, by your own admission, you have no idea how likely or unlikely the Higgs Boson is.

You can see it for yourself.

I'm fine with the Higgs, I also remember when its existence was hotly debated.

I can't see the Higgs. I can see records of experiments people claim to conduct, I can listen to experts, but I don't have the ability to build my own CERN like device and find it myself. On the flip Side God does offer us the ability to know for ourselves.

 

[Truth in love]

I can't find a record of that. What did they say these 'others' were?
Yes they do ─ as I said, the bomber(s) incompetently wired the bomb so that only the top part, the gasoline, was connected. They failed to connect the explosives below. And all the windows were open so importantly the explosion was not kept confined to the room.
I can be persuaded by good evidence, but I don't see any mystery here.
If your radio analogy represented an objective phenomenon, we could all reproduce it. But if it only reflects an individual mental state, then there's no objective phenomenon to be reproduced, no?

The details varied some, in at least one case the kid identified a deceased family member as having been there with them.

You won't see what you are trying to no see.


The Radio works, however if you don't tune in you won't hear the program. Does anti matter not exist because its not always produced every time we crash a few partials together?

 

[Truth in love]

Why would you think an experience involves a God?


Well solve the problem by demonstrating any God actually exists.


You have contempt for science due to social biases, so that is something you can remedy if you decide to accept facts, objectivity, and reason.

1. I don't have contempt for science, I take greet issue with scienceism and the blatant disregard for the rules that many have.

2. I've shown that many don't apply the same rules to God that they do to particles. They exert great faith in one set of untested assumptions while rejecting others.

 

[Balthazzar]

Huh?

How would you objectively and verifiably test subjective emotions and psychological responses?

By the affects and results from utilizing the principles associated with meditation, breathing techniques, etc. Likely through vitals such as heart rate and blood pressure. If I'm not mistaken, the principles associated with meditative practices are utilized to help us both mentally,/emotionally and physically. Meditation has synergistic affects, as in whole being from what I understand.

 

[Truth in love]

I see your "magnetism analogy" and raise you a "theory of evolution analogy".

If "theories are just theories, not fact", how about jumping off a cliff to disprove the theory of gravity?

That one is pretty well established, on the other hand many other theories are far less well tested or testable, yet for many are enshrined as though there is no limit to them.

 

[Balthazzar]

That's why science does peer review.
Or, astronomers noticed an anomaly in Neptune's orbit, some numbers were crunched based on Newton's Laws, the existence of another planet was predicted and lo and behold Neptune was discovered.
Or, observations were made, a solar eclipse documented, evidence gathered, some numbers where crunched and lo and behold we found Einstein's Theory of General Relativity is right.
It also turns out we have this objective language to communicate and express such things. It's called mathematics.

Behold, it takes time to catch up to what's understood with objective data.

 

[Truth in love]

It is not "undetectable" or "unmeasurable".

Can you present your physical, repeatable, quantifiable demonstration of god communicating with man?

I said invisible. Can you change a dog into a horse?

 

[Truth in love]

Depends on the subject and what is being tested for.

You monitor whether power is flowing to the bulb circuit.
You can then see whether the bulb works when there is no power, and when there is power.
You repeat this experiment to build a volume of reliable data.

Great and millions upon millions report having help from God. Do you accept this data?

 

[Truth in love]

You haven't studied any science, have you?

Why would you make such a baseless assumption?

 

[Balthazzar]

Great and millions upon millions report having help from God. Do you accept this data?

Most would likely use a different term than God, and likely for more precise identification purposes.

 

[F1fan]

1. I don't have contempt for science, I take greet issue with scienceism and the blatant disregard for the rules that many have.

You are exposing that you have contempt for science right here.

2. I've shown that many don't apply the same rules to God that they do to particles. They exert great faith in one set of untested assumptions while rejecting others.

Gods aren't known to exist. Particles do exist. No wonder rules apply to only one of these.

 

[ppp]

I can't see the Higgs. I can see records of experiments people claim to conduct, I can listen to experts, but I don't have the ability to build my own CERN like device and find it myself. On the flip Side God does offer us the ability to know for ourselves.

Sure you can. You can study the basic observations that led to quantum physics. You can do the math from which the Higgs was postulated and derived. You can go to school, achieve the credentials and get a grant to use CERN, yourself.

But you don't have to do any of that. You don't have to believe that the boson exists. Or that any boson exists. It won't affect your life. No one will try to legislate your actions and autonomy because of it. No one will try to Baptize you in bosons, or threaten you with losing mass because of your lack of belief.

On the flip Side God does offer us the ability to know for ourselves.

So you say.