Do atheists believe in magnetism?

[SkepticThinker]

Atheists are like blind wanderers who are bent on evil or more commonly, ignorance.

God is a fact. Not an obvious fact. But the highest truths correspond to the utmost reality.

God, being abstract and existing outside of space, time and object, is as real as maths (which is more real than matter). For instance, in my supreme logic I wrote, "Reality is Reduced to Axioms".

Well, if it's an obvious fact, then it should be super easy to demonstrate.
How come nobody can manage to do that then, if this fact is so obvious? We can actually demonstrate that maths work.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

Atheism, according to my impeccable logic, is an affront to super-intelligence.

Agnostic atheism is the only position possible that doesn't rely on faith, making it the only rational one. Faith is not a path to truth, because it is not tethered to evidence (reality experienced). It is the path to false belief (see below).

God is a fact. Not an obvious fact.

Are you talking about the alleged entity that lives outside of time and space and cannot be detected empirically even in principle? Do you know what else fits that description? Everything that doesn't exist.

Atheists are like blind wanderers who are bent on evil or more commonly, ignorance.

You reminded me of a witticism about believers being like blind men in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there and claiming to have found it.

Atheism is the beginning of wisdom. It clears away the cobwebs of faith and all of the false things believed when one doesn't require compelling evidence before believing.

Faith isn't just found in religion, as when people assume that a deity wants women to die rather than get an abortion, or when they treat people as abominations to God because they've been told that that's what God wants. We see it elsewhere, as when people go to prison for trying to overturn what they were convinced was a stolen election. It's why so many people have believed disinformation about global waring being a hoax or not manmade. It's why so many Americans died needlessly unvaccinated from fearing the vaccine over the virus. It's why there was astrology before astronomy, creationism before evolution, blood letting before scientific medicine, and alchemy before chemistry. It's why the Heaven's Gate people committed suicide.

When is faith ever a good idea?

 

[Truth in love]

Yes. I have showed you where magnetics are not invisible. And while I haven't seen CERN, I have seen the Northern Lights.

I'll take that as a no.

 

[Truth in love]

Says who?

Many religious leaders from many faiths. Like I said some things are well agreed on some are not.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'll take that as a no.

And I will continue cheering as attitudes like that keep driving people away from Christianity.

 

[Truth in love]

An unidentified youngster may have said they thought a dead relative was in the room? Who was the youngster and what exactly were their words and when and where were they spoken and with what degree of confidence was any such assertion made and could the words have been the result of adult comment at the time or later and who was the alleged dead relative ─ and so on. Extraordinary claim require extraordinary demonstration, as you know, so we need all the details before we can assess the credibility of the story.
Unfortunately if you don't put a clear statement on a reliable record well in advance, your subsequent assertion that a particular claim came true will be greeted with honest skepticism, no?

Well I was not there. I did meet some of the survivors years back, but we did not discuss the event. There is documentation of the events. I don't know the exact numbers, but its almost like there is some evidence even if we don't have every answer.

 

[Truth in love]

What do you think science is? What is your understanding of what a fact is?

Facts are what things actually are.

Science is a process of gathering evidence (observation, experiments etc.) and deriving theory to try to approximate fact.

 

[Sheldon]

Atheism, according to my impeccable logic, is an affront to super-intelligence.

What is "super intelligence"? Why are you claiming it is affronted by the notion of not believing any deity or deities exist? What logically consistent argument have you for this assertion?

Lastly how does this assertion address @Subduction Zone's original post?

Subduction Zone said: ↑
The logic you have presented here has been of a very low caliber, a slight improvement over that would not prove anything.

And you do not appear to have evidence for God. I don't think that you understand the concept.

 

[Sheldon]

Atheists are like blind wanderers who are bent on evil or more commonly, ignorance.

I don't believe you.

God is a fact. Not an obvious fact.

Which deity are you talking about, I don't know that a deity exists, nor have seen the claim proved, so please present the objective evidence to support this claim.

God, being abstract

You just claimed god was a fact, now it only exists in the imagination?

 

[blü 2]

Well I was not there. I did meet some of the survivors years back, but we did not discuss the event. There is documentation of the events. I don't know the exact numbers, but its almost like there is some evidence even if we don't have every answer.

We can leave it there then, I guess.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Facts are what things actually are.

Science is a process of gathering evidence (observation, experiments etc.) and deriving theory to try to approximate fact.

How do you consider these relate to your personal beliefs?

 

[Mock Turtle]

Atheism, according to my impeccable logic, is an affront to super-intelligence.

And your comments unfortunately are often examples showing the epitome of arrogance - and so often allied to religious beliefs.

 

[Ostronomos]

Agnostic atheism is the only position possible that doesn't rely on faith, making it the only rational one.

False. As an atheist I am sure we can agree upon the more solid path to truth by means of empiricism and logic rather than the mere belief in the possibility of God and the supernatural (which is in fact a factual actuality as I can logically prove).

It is through the mere possibility of cognition and perception that we can unequivocally conclude that God/ or Brahman/ or the One, is real.

Faith is not a path to truth, because it is not tethered to evidence (reality experienced). It is the path to false belief (see below).

Faith is the only path to truth. The only alternative is if you invite all manner of negativity into not just your environment, but where ultimate reality actually resides (the mind).

Are you talking about the alleged entity that lives outside of time and space and cannot be detected empirically even in principle? Do you know what else fits that description? Everything that doesn't exist.

Another incorrect assumption that in no way qualifies as intelligent.

If something lives outside of space and time then it exists. Except in a spaceless timeless realm/ dimension. One that is far more glorious and eye-opening than the one that atheists wildly speculate about.

You reminded me of a witticism about believers being like blind men in a dark room looking for a black cat that isn't there and claiming to have found it.

Feel free to assert your wild speculations about me as long as they aren't ad hominem.

Atheism is the beginning of wisdom.

Wild speculation that in no way can be considered intelligent. Please.

I encourage you to invite a little more logic into your hypotheticals.

It clears away the cobwebs of faith and all of the false things believed when one doesn't require compelling evidence before believing.

False. You merely THINK that what you have thus far seen is all that can possibly be.

Think bigger.

Faith isn't just found in religion, as when people assume that a deity wants women to die rather than get an abortion, or when they treat people as abominations to God because they've been told that that's what God wants. We see it elsewhere, as when people go to prison for trying to overturn what they were convinced was a stolen election. It's why so many people have believed disinformation about global waring being a hoax or not manmade. It's why so many Americans died needlessly unvaccinated from fearing the vaccine over the virus. It's why there was astrology before astronomy, creationism before evolution, blood letting before scientific medicine, and alchemy before chemistry. It's why the Heaven's Gate people committed suicide.

When is faith ever a good idea?

Admittedly there have been atrocities committed in the name of faith. But faith is not to blame. In fact, there have been much more admirable achievements gained. The whole concept of faith is belief in the mind and what it is capable of. It is not so much faith that causes people to commit evil, but rather evil itself.

 

[Ostronomos]

I don't believe you.



Which deity are you talking about, I don't know that a deity exists, nor have seen the claim proved, so please present the objective evidence to support this claim.



You just claimed god was a fact, now it only exists in the imagination?

I will address your post another day. Right now I apologize for running out of time.

 

[Subduction Zone]

False. As an atheist I am sure we can agree upon the more solid path to truth by means of empiricism and logic rather than the mere belief in the possibility of God and the supernatural (which is in fact a factual actuality as I can logically prove).

It is through the mere possibility of cognition and perception that we can unequivocally conclude that God/ or Brahman/ or the One, is real.



Faith is the only path to truth. The only alternative is if you invite all manner of negativity into not just your environment, but where ultimate reality actually resides (the mind).



Another incorrect assumption that in no way qualifies as intelligent.

If something lives outside of space and time then it exists. Except in a spaceless timeless realm/ dimension. One that is far more glorious and eye-opening than the one that atheists wildly speculate about.



Feel free to assert your wild speculations about me as long as they aren't ad hominem.



Wild speculation that in no way can be considered intelligent. Please.

I encourage you to invite a little more logic into your hypotheticals.



False. You merely THINK that what you have thus far seen is all that can possibly be.

Think bigger.



Admittedly there have been atrocities committed in the name of faith. But faith is not to blame. In fact, there have been much more admirable achievements gained. The whole concept of faith is belief in the mind and what it is capable of. It is not so much faith that causes people to commit evil, but rather evil itself.

I doubt if you can make a proper argument for God. Rather than spewing it out in one post why not run through your argument step by step? If you make an error it is easier to point out that way. It will save you and everyone else a lot of time.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

False. As an atheist I am sure we can agree upon the more solid path to truth by means of empiricism and logic rather than the mere belief in the possibility of God and the supernatural (which is in fact a factual actuality as I can logically prove). It is through the mere possibility of cognition and perception that we can unequivocally conclude that God/ or Brahman/ or the One, is real.

Were you calling yourself an atheist? Probably not, but it sounds like it. I don't know what you are claiming to be able to prove here, but if it's your last sentence, then no, you can't prove that a deity exists. I won't even ask you to try.

Also, you didn't rebut my claim that agnostic atheism is the only rational position possible regarding the existence and belief in gods. You said you didn't agree, but not why.

Faith is the only path to truth.

That's easily refuted if by faith one means insufficiently justified belief, and by truth one means demonstrably correct ideas. In fact, I can't think of a definition for either of those words that makes that statement correct.

If something lives outside of space and time then it exists. Except in a spaceless timeless realm/ dimension.

That's an incoherent concept - existence outside of time. Existence, like thought and action, require time. To exist or to be real means to occupy a place through a series of consecutive instants. Reality is the collection of all real objects and processes that occur in time and space and that can interact with one another.

But do you know what does live outside of space and time and isn't detectible even in principle? The nonexistent. What are the differences between wolves, something that exists, and werewolves, something that doesn't. One difference is that there is a place one can go to to see a wolf, but not a werewolf. Also, there is a time that that wolf exists between it's birth and death when one can go to see it, but werewolves have no address in time. Also, one can touch a wolf and be touched by one, whereas werewolves cannot be detected or affect their surroundings.

Wild speculation that in no way can be considered intelligent. Please. I encourage you to invite a little more logic into your hypotheticals.

I said that "atheism is the beginning of wisdom," because "it clears away the cobwebs of faith and all of the false things believed when one doesn't require compelling evidence before believing". You didn't refute it. I've lived it. My life changed for the better when I left Christianity for humanism. I'm kind of losing confidence in whatever it is you mean by intelligence. First you wrote, "through the mere possibility of cognition and perception that we can unequivocally conclude that God/ or Brahman/ or the One, is real." Then you called faith the only path to truth. Then you talked about existence outside of time. And now you consider atheism as wisdom "wild speculation." It's a defensible position.

What has theism done for you? How are you better off being a believer in whatever faith-based beliefs you hold than a humanist is, for example? How do you think a god belief would improve a content humanist's life? Let me answer for you: it wouldn't. It wouldn't be an intelligent thing to do.

 

[PearlSeeker]

Many religious leaders from many faiths. Like I said some things are well agreed on some are not.

Are you saying one will hear God (or get a supernatural relevation) after one is morally pure (to an unknown extent) and doing Abrahamic religious rituals? It seems God has a huge ignore list. Even among believers.

Many atheist RF members were sincerely seeking communication/revelation but did get nothing.

According to the Bible God spoke to a murderer (Moses) that even wasn't seeking to communicate.

Jesus didn't ignore sinners. Why should a loving God ignore us? Sinners are even more in need of healing.

 

[Sheldon]

mere belief in the possibility of God and the supernatural (which is in fact a factual actuality as I can logically prove).

I doubt it, but all you seem to be offering here are bold unevidenced sweeping claims. If you could do this, you would do this.

Faith is the only path to truth.

Faith is the excuse people use to believe things they don't have any objective evidence for.

Admittedly there have been atrocities committed in the name of faith. But faith is not to blame.

Of course it is, the Crusades, the Inquisition, the Thirty Years' War, just leaf through the bible and take a cursory look at what their faith compelled them to do, then there are the 911 bombers, ISIS, etc etc.. All motivated entirely by religious faith.

 

[Ostronomos]

Were you calling yourself an atheist? Probably not, but it sounds like it. I don't know what you are claiming to be able to prove here, but if it's your last sentence, then no, you can't prove that a deity exists. I won't even ask you to try.

Also, you didn't rebut my claim that agnostic atheism is the only rational position possible regarding the existence and belief in gods. You said you didn't agree, but not why.



That's easily refuted if by faith one means insufficiently justified belief, and by truth one means demonstrably correct ideas. In fact, I can't think of a definition for either of those words that makes that statement correct.



That's an incoherent concept - existence outside of time. Existence, like thought and action, require time. To exist or to be real means to occupy a place through a series of consecutive instants. Reality is the collection of all real objects and processes that occur in time and space and that can interact with one another.

But do you know what does live outside of space and time and isn't detectible even in principle? The nonexistent. What are the differences between wolves, something that exists, and werewolves, something that doesn't. One difference is that there is a place one can go to to see a wolf, but not a werewolf. Also, there is a time that that wolf exists between it's birth and death when one can go to see it, but werewolves have no address in time. Also, one can touch a wolf and be touched by one, whereas werewolves cannot be detected or affect their surroundings.

Time is not necessary for something to exist. According to theoretical Physicist Brian Greene (a firm believer that all is mind and thus a pantheist, like me), the wavefunction is far more fundamental than the space and time surrounding it. Your argument drones on mindlessly like the atheistic belief system that characterizes your kind.

I said that "atheism is the beginning of wisdom," because "it clears away the cobwebs of faith and all of the false things believed when one doesn't require compelling evidence before believing". You didn't refute it. I've lived it. My life changed for the better when I left Christianity for humanism. I'm kind of losing confidence in whatever it is you mean by intelligence. First you wrote, "through the mere possibility of cognition and perception that we can unequivocally conclude that God/ or Brahman/ or the One, is real." Then you called faith the only path to truth. Then you talked about existence outside of time. And now you consider atheism as wisdom "wild speculation." It's a defensible position.

I actually have two different intelligences. One moderately gifted the other unprecedented in human history. The former serves the latter. The latter I rarely get to use.

What has theism done for you? How are you better off being a believer in whatever faith-based beliefs you hold than a humanist is, for example? How do you think a god belief would improve a content humanist's life? Let me answer for you: it wouldn't. It wouldn't be an intelligent thing to do.

It is very intelligent. Faith empowers the individual with hope and positivity. In the supernatural dimension mere thought can influence the probability of an event occurring in the material world.

 

[Ostronomos]

I doubt if you can make a proper argument for God. Rather than spewing it out in one post why not run through your argument step by step? If you make an error it is easier to point out that way. It will save you and everyone else a lot of time.

See my thread "ultimate reality" and "One X, Therefore One God".