Do atheists believe in magnetism?

[Ostronomos]

I doubt it, but all you seem to be offering here are bold unevidenced sweeping claims. If you could do this, you would do this.

I can only do this whenever I temporarily become the greatest genius in human history. Not at the moment.

 

[Subduction Zone]

See my thread "ultimate reality" and "One X, Therefore One God".

I think that I saw at least one of them. I almost died laughing if I remember correctly.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

I can only do this whenever I temporarily become the greatest genius in human history. Not at the moment.

I had forgotten this aspect of your posting. We have three Oscar Wildes on RF presently, who when crossing through customs whether he had anything to declare allegedly answered, "I have nothing to declare but my genius." I'd love to see the three of you contributing to the same discussion in the same thread:

Time is not necessary for something to exist. According to theoretical Physicist Brian Greene (a firm believer that all is mind and thus a pantheist, like me), the wavefunction is far more fundamental than the space and time surrounding it. Your argument drones on mindlessly like the atheistic belief system that characterizes your kind.

You didn't understand my argument.

And yours is incoherent. You say that all is mind, but can exist outside of time? The theater of the mind gives the subject a temporal sense a priori. It is understood intuitively by any conscious agent that this moment was preceded by other moments and the expectation that it will be followed by others. The phenomena of consciousness evolve, and the conscious agent is aware of that. He remembers the past and anticipates the future.

My dog knows when it's dinner time. He remembers getting dinner in the past at this time, even if not in words. He anticipates what's coming when I prepare his bowl. This is not because he lives in a fleshy body. It would be the same for a deity.

What you describe is the nonexistent. The nonexistent "exists" outside of time, meaning it doesn't exist. The nonexistent can be "found" outside of space, meaning that it cannot be found anywhere. This should be a pretty simple concept for a huge brain like yours. If something is identical in every respect with the nonexistent, it is also nonexistent.

Faith empowers the individual with hope and positivity.

I had asked you, "What has theism done for you? How are you better off being a believer in whatever faith-based beliefs you hold than a humanist is, for example?" Faith isn't needed for either hope or positivity. Faith is not a virtue or a superpower. It's a logical error. In the world of logic, any leap of faith in an argument creates a non sequitur fallacy, which is a violation of valid reasoning.

I also asked, "How do you think a god belief would improve a content humanist's life? Let me answer for you: it wouldn't. It wouldn't be an intelligent thing to do." I take it you agreed.

 

[Sheldon]

Time is not necessary for something to exist. According to theoretical Physicist Brian Greene (a firm believer that all is mind and thus a pantheist, like me),

Appeal to authority fallacy.

Your argument drones on mindlessly like the atheistic belief system that characterizes your kind.

Atheism is not a belief system. Though it's funny to see people who hold a faith based belief decry the notion of it in others, even falsely.

Faith empowers the individual with hope and positivity.

So does delusion.

In the supernatural dimension mere thought can influence the probability of an event occurring in the material world.

Woo woo writ large....

 

[Sheldon]

I can only do this whenever I temporarily become the greatest genius in human history. Not at the moment.

Does it involve a cape, and or a nurse cutting fruit into a plastic bowl?

 

[Ostronomos]

I think that I saw at least one of them. I almost died laughing if I remember correctly.

Yet people who can actually give constructive criticism about it have. *** Mod Edit ***

 

[Ostronomos]

I had forgotten this aspect of your posting. We have three Oscar Wildes on RF presently, who when crossing through customs whether he had anything to declare allegedly answered, "I have nothing to declare but my genius." I'd love to see the three of you contributing to the same discussion in the same thread:

You didn't understand my argument.

And yours is incoherent. You say that all is mind, but can exist outside of time? The theater of the mind gives the subject a temporal sense a priori. It is understood intuitively by any conscious agent that this moment was preceded by other moments and the expectation that it will be followed by others. The phenomena of consciousness evolve, and the conscious agent is aware of that. He remembers the past and anticipates the future.

Outside the universe there is not time. Consider the law of time dilation for instance. You can experience the passing of time in a very compressed manner so as to become timeless and immortal.

My dog knows when it's dinner time. He remembers getting dinner in the past at this time, even if not in words. He anticipates what's coming when I prepare his bowl. This is not because he lives in a fleshy body. It would be the same for a deity.

Yes. The deity is ethereal not material and exists outside the universe and thus outside of time. Thus it simultaneously does not exist in the sense that we are familiar, It can enter the time and space of this world but not at will. Reality int = Reality ext. Greater reality = All reality. Mind = Reality. Try not to be deceived by the illusion of the real world.

What you describe is the nonexistent. The nonexistent "exists" outside of time, meaning it doesn't exist. The nonexistent can be "found" outside of space, meaning that it cannot be found anywhere. This should be a pretty simple concept for a huge brain like yours. If something is identical in every respect with the nonexistent, it is also nonexistent.

I'm not disputing that. And I never said I have a "huge brain" at all times. But I'm intelligent enough to know that the non-existent exists outside the universe. This translates to a realm of pure potential.

I had asked you, "What has theism done for you? How are you better off being a believer in whatever faith-based beliefs you hold than a humanist is, for example?"

I never said that I was a theist as that would imply that I am a believer. I am not. I know for a fact that a supreme Being exists. I have empirical evidence and I have logic as my guide.

Faith isn't needed for either hope or positivity. Faith is not a virtue or a superpower. It's a logical error. In the world of logic, any leap of faith in an argument creates a non sequitur fallacy, which is a violation of valid reasoning.

I do not take leaps of faith. I have a firm understanding that a deity exists. I simply do not know what that means for us or our world.

I also asked, "How do you think a god belief would improve a content humanist's life? Let me answer for you: it wouldn't. It wouldn't be an intelligent thing to do." I take it you agreed.

It would have about as much importance as hope and dreams.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yet people who can actually give constructive criticism about it have. You died laughing because it justifies your stupidity.

No. It was a very poor argument. You would not listen why.

Perhaps you did not have your consciousness up to full speed that day.

 

[Truth in love]

And I will continue cheering as attitudes like that keep driving people away from Christianity.

I asked for specific evidence you clearly are not providing it. And my pouting that out drives people away from Christianity?

I really don’t think that is supported.

 

[Truth in love]

How do you consider these relate to your personal beliefs?

I try to learn. I study. I’m looking for truth.
I use both faith and science in that process.

 

[Truth in love]

Are you saying one will hear God (or get a supernatural relevation) after one is morally pure (to an unknown extent) and doing Abrahamic religious rituals? It seems God has a huge ignore list. Even among believers.

Many atheist RF members were sincerely seeking communication/revelation but did get nothing.

According to the Bible God spoke to a murderer (Moses) that even wasn't seeking to communicate.

Jesus didn't ignore sinners. Why should a loving God ignore us? Sinners are even more in need of healing.

I did not say He has a huge ignore list. I also did not say a given ritual was needed.

God may speak to whomever He wishes. The more in tune our life is with his commandments the more likely we are to hear.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Outside the universe there is not time. Consider the law of time dilation for instance. You can experience the passing of time in a very compressed manner so as to become timeless and immortal.

How do you know this? What reasoning did you use? What scientific evidence supports this claim?

Yes. The deity is ethereal not material and exists outside the universe and thus outside of time. Thus it simultaneously does not exist in the sense that we are familiar, It can enter the time and space of this world but not at will. Reality int = Reality ext. Greater reality = All reality. Mind = Reality. Try not to be deceived by the illusion of the real world.

Once again, how do you know this? Same questions as above. Plus how does an immaterial being react with a material world, or girl for that matter?

I'm not disputing that. And I never said I have a "huge brain" at all times. But I'm intelligent enough to know that the non-existent exists outside the universe. This translates to a realm of pure potential.

One more time . . . how do you know this?

I never said that I was a theist as that would imply that I am a believer. I am not. I know for a fact that a supreme Being exists. I have empirical evidence and I have logic as my guide.

Hmmm, I am beginning to see a pattern here. You may not understand what "knowing" is. What empirical evidence? What "logic"?

I do not take leaps of faith. I have a firm understanding that a deity exists. I simply do not know what that means for us or our world.

And I know that I am the queen of Brazil.

It would have about as much importance as hope and dreams.

Okay. Mere delusional belief is not knowing. See my personal example above. Knowledge is demonstrable. If all you have are empty claims you do not know anything.

Until you demonstrate your knowledge you may address us as either your majesty or your highness.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I try to learn. I study. I’m looking for truth.
I use both faith and science in that process.

I don't think that you understand how that is done. But I am open minded. Please show us how you do that.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

You can experience the passing of time in a very compressed manner so as to become timeless and immortal.

No, you can't. Time passes normally at the rate of one second per second from within all frames of reference. If you aren't experiencing time, you aren't conscious.

The deity is ethereal not material and exists outside the universe and thus outside of time.

Nothing exists outside of time.

I've given you my argument. You haven't rebutted it. You just dismiss it with the wave of a hand making comments like that one. The argument stands unrebutted.

Do you want to know what kinds of statements can't be rebutted? Correct ones. A rebuttal is a counterargument explaining why the rebutted argument can't be right, not just that one doesn't like the idea or doesn't accept it. Those are irrelevant in dialectic, which ends with the last unrebutted plausible argument.

It can enter the time and space of this world

There's that incoherence again. You say it can enter time from outside of time? Entering requires a before and an after state, the time before you entered and the time after. When did this deity, which experiences no time and therefore cannot change even its thoughts much less its location, begin this transition? This is incoherent. That's what the word means. One can't make sense of it. It's alleged internal features are self-contradictory, like the married bachelor. Your arguments are the equivalent of saying that such a thing is possible. When asked how he can be both married and a bachelor, you answer he can because he's outside of time and space, and you're absolutely certain of it based on your logic and experience.

I'm intelligent enough to know that the non-existent exists outside the universe.

The nonexistent exists? You're probably going to want to remove that comment from your post before somebody tries to leave the universe to find Santa Claus.

Yesterday, another poster asked if the impossible was possible with miracles. People seem to have trouble with privative prefixes like non- and im-. Also, with the law of noncontradiction.

I never said that I was a theist as that would imply that I am a believer. I am not. I know for a fact that a supreme Being exists.

That makes you a theist by my reckoning. And a believer. A theist is anybody with a god belief, even those who won't call it a belief. For me, a belief is any idea one considers correct.

I have empirical evidence and I have logic as my guide.

I don't believe that you have empiric evidence for a deity, and since you believe in one anyway, your logic isn't as good as you think. If you want to be believed by a humanist, you'll need to present your evidence and valid argument derived from it leading to a sound conclusion.

Since you don't have that, my go-to hypothesis is that you have a feeling that you feel is evidence of a deity and interpret as experiencing a deity due to a common cognitive bias combining projection and the tendency to assign agenticity to natural phenomena.

I do not take leaps of faith. I have a firm understanding that a deity exists.

I still don't believe you.

It would have about as much importance as hope and dreams.

I wrote, "How do you think a god belief would improve a content humanist's life? Let me answer for you: it wouldn't. It wouldn't be an intelligent thing to do." I also explained that hope doesn't require a god belief, yet the reason you offer for why theism could improve a content humanist's life is to give hope. Hope for what? An afterlife? I'm fine with the prospect that death is the extinction of consciousness. I've had decades to reach acceptance. I also am content that there may be nobody answering prayers or protecting me, and that we may live in a godless universe. My life has been characterized by a series of hopes and dreams. I hoped to become happily married. I hoped to acquire a good education and a satisfying career. I hoped to learn to play guitar and contract bridge. I had hoped to be financially secure and in good health. I had hoped to travel much of the world. All without a god belief.

So what does a god belief offer such a person? Nothing.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I asked for specific evidence you clearly are not providing it. And my pouting that out drives people away from Christianity?

I really don’t think that is supported.

I did give you evidence and you just aren't wanting to see and accept. I gave you at least two means of how we can see magnetic forces.

 

[Truth in love]

I did give you evidence and you just aren't wanting to see and accept. I gave you at least two means of how we can see magnetic forces.

Yes, but the other items you have skipped over.

 

[PearlSeeker]

I did not say He has a huge ignore list. I also did not say a given ritual was needed.

God may speak to whomever He wishes. The more in tune our life is with his commandments the more likely we are to hear.

This is ignoring. Really loving parent communicates with child from the beginning.

 

[Truth in love]

This is ignoring. Really loving parent communicates with child from the beginning.

I agree that loving parents try to communicate. However if the kid is not listening they likely won’t hear.

 

[ppp]

I agree that loving parents try to communicate. However if the kid is not listening they likely won’t hear.

Loving parents do not have to "try" to get their kid to believe that they exist. Y'all keep trying to make relationship analogies when you haven't even passed the basic hurdle of demonstrable existence.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I agree that loving parents try to communicate. However if the kid is not listening they likely won’t hear.

Nope, you can't blame the kids if the parents refuse to communicate. The problem with a religious belief is that people will often use it to justify evil acts. If one can allow one's God to act in an evil manner it is not problem allowing people to do so too.