Do atheists believe in magnetism?

[Sheldon]

I'm intelligent enough to know that the non-existent exists

 

[Sheldon]

I do not take leaps of faith.

I know for a fact that a supreme Being exists.

 

[Sheldon]

The more in tune our life is with his commandments the more likely we are to hear.

Does that include the slavery the bible claims this deity endorsed in Exodus 21?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Better break out the oven mitts.

 

[Truth in love]

Loving parents do not have to "try" to get their kid to believe that they exist. Y'all keep trying to make relationship analogies when you haven't even passed the basic hurdle of demonstrable existence.

Well those who don’t look won’t find. Those who have found may not be able to force others to believe (or bother trying), but we know.

 

[PearlSeeker]

I agree that loving parents try to communicate. However if the kid is not listening they likely won’t hear.

No. You can show your child you are present and there is absolute certainty.

And we are not talking about someone who is not listening. We are talking about many people who had been calling God and got no feedback.

 

[Truth in love]

No. You can show your child you are present ans there is absolute certainty.

And we are not talking about someone who is not listening. We are talking about many people who had been calling God and got no feedback.

So like parting the Red Sea, healing the blind, easing the dead. Maybe predicting events thousands of years ahead of time???
It’s there, but not everyone pays attention or understands.

Are they really listening? Often teenagers complaint that their parents don’t listen, don’t understand etc. the reality is that often the parent is well aware and here it all, but they don’t agree. Gods methods don’t always make sense. His time table is often much more long term than ours. Often He hears, understands and still says no.

 

[PearlSeeker]

So like parting the Red Sea, healing the blind, easing the dead. Maybe predicting events thousands of years ahead of time???
It’s there, but not everyone pays attention or understands.

What does it have to do with talking with God here and now?

Often He hears, understands and still says no.

... says nothing. For many this is like talking to the wind.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well those who don’t look won’t find. Those who have found may not be able to force others to believe (or bother trying), but we know.

What about those that look earnestly, yet God hides from?

 

[Polymath257]

What is different?
When set conditions are met an electromagnet exerts an invisible power to impact life as we know it. This is widely accepted, but God communicating or helping man is not???

Plenty is different, including predictability, precision of measurements, the fact that light is electromagnetic, etc.

It isn't just 'impacting life as we know it', but rather measurable impact that is repeatable, has a precise mathematical description that include prediction of previously unknown phenomena (radio) and explanation of previously known phenomena (light) in detail.

No hypothesis involving a deity comes anywhere close to this level of precision.

 

[Polymath257]

So how do you decide what conditions for the test are valid or not?
A light bulb is very reliable when connected to power. When not it does not work.

Well, we can make the power source and test it as well. I can set up a Galvonic pile and hook it up to a filament and see what happens.

If you want to support a God hypothesis, you get to set up an experiment and see if something is detected. Then the question of whether that experiment actually detects what you claim, the precision of that detection, the reliability of that detection, etc can be discussed and we can see how your hypothesis holds up.

 

[Polymath257]

There are a lot of approaches suggested in various belief systems.

sometimes something simple like mediation, prayer or reading sacred texts and observing how you feel.

OK, if things are set up correctly, will even a skeptic be able to see the evidence? Is it definite enough that the link between the observed effects and your claimed explanation is clear? Is it possible to say *ahead of time* whether an experiment is set up well?

Meditation, prayer, and sacred texts have shown themselves to be incredibly inconsistent even among those that believe in them, let alone those who do not. And the link between the feelings produced by these activities and the proposed supernatural explanation is weak, at best.

Compare this to the ability to predict head of time that radio waves would exist, how to produce them, how to detect them, and how to control them. And then being able to use those radio waves for communication that can be verified afterwards.

 

[Truth in love]

What does it have to do with talking with God here and now?


... says nothing. For many this is like talking to the wind.

Things are happening all the time. Much of it is very personal.

yeah it sucks if you feel like God does not hear you and help, but then again many people do feel heard, are helped and keep point to God as the one helping.

 

[Truth in love]

Plenty is different, including predictability, precision of measurements, the fact that light is electromagnetic, etc.

It isn't just 'impacting life as we know it', but rather measurable impact that is repeatable, has a precise mathematical description that include prediction of previously unknown phenomena (radio) and explanation of previously known phenomena (light) in detail.

No hypothesis involving a deity comes anywhere close to this level of precision.

Does that apply to all forms of science?

 

[Truth in love]

Well, we can make the power source and test it as well. I can set up a Galvonic pile and hook it up to a filament and see what happens.

If you want to support a God hypothesis, you get to set up an experiment and see if something is detected. Then the question of whether that experiment actually detects what you claim, the precision of that detection, the reliability of that detection, etc can be discussed and we can see how your hypothesis holds up.

That approach assumes that God wants to jump our hoops.

 

[Truth in love]

OK, if things are set up correctly, will even a skeptic be able to see the evidence? Is it definite enough that the link between the observed effects and your claimed explanation is clear? Is it possible to say *ahead of time* whether an experiment is set up well?

Meditation, prayer, and sacred texts have shown themselves to be incredibly inconsistent even among those that believe in them, let alone those who do not. And the link between the feelings produced by these activities and the proposed supernatural explanation is weak, at best.

Compare this to the ability to predict head of time that radio waves would exist, how to produce them, how to detect them, and how to control them. And then being able to use those radio waves for communication that can be verified afterwards.

trying to control for a lot of factors is doable in some sciences, but not others. I can’t control for every variable at a high school yet we do studies in that setting.

A person believing or not is a major factor. We would not expect the same results of people rating their experience with a political speech when they have differing views.


Expecting the believer and non believer to have the same experience is just as far fetched.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Things are happening all the time. Much of it is very personal.

yeah it sucks if you feel like God does not hear you and help, but then again many people do feel heard, are helped and keep point to God as the one helping.

How do you tell the difference between God hearing your and responding and delusion? The latter appears to be far more likely.

 

[Subduction Zone]

trying to control for a lot of factors is doable in some sciences, but not others. I can’t control for every variable at a high school yet we do studies in that setting.

A person believing or not is a major factor. We would not expect the same results of people rating their experience with a political speech when they have differing views.


Expecting the believer and non believer to have the same experience is just as far fetched.

Now it appears that you are blaming God for not communicating with people.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

trying to control for a lot of factors is doable in some sciences, but not others. I can’t control for every variable at a high school yet we do studies in that setting.

A person believing or not is a major factor. We would not expect the same results of people rating their experience with a political speech when they have differing views.


Expecting the believer and non believer to have the same experience is just as far fetched.

But people of different political persuasions can agree that a speech was given. They can agree on who gave the speech. They can agree on many physical measurements regarding that speech. Length, subjects discussed, whether it was televised, had a live audience, etc. That they do not agree with or believe in the conclusions is not a confounding factor to the existence of the speech.

In claiming that what a person believes to be is exactly that requires some reason for coming to that belief in telling others that do not believe. I believe in God. I have had subjective experiences that I think are from God. I have no evidence to make it clear to someone that doesn't believe that my subjective experiences are what I conclude them to be. My belief is based on faith that they are as I think they are. I cannot show anyone that these experiences didn't arise from some other reason and I am deluded, hysterical, mistaken or anything else. That is the problem with your magnetism analogy. That phenomenon produces regular patterns that can be recorded, analyzed and used to determine unknowns. Belief in anything doesn't share that sort of evidence no matter how much I may want a specific form of belief to be just that way.

 

[Truth in love]

But people of different political persuasions can agree that a speech was given. They can agree on who gave the speech. They can agree on many physical measurements regarding that speech. Length, subjects discussed, whether it was televised, had a live audience, etc. That they do not agree with or believe in the conclusions is not a confounding factor to the existence of the speech.

In claiming that what a person believes to be is exactly that requires some reason for coming to that belief in telling others that do not believe. I believe in God. I have had subjective experiences that I think are from God. I have no evidence to make it clear to someone that doesn't believe that my subjective experiences are what I conclude them to be. My belief is based on faith that they are as I think they are. I cannot show anyone that these experiences didn't arise from some other reason and I am deluded, hysterical, mistaken or anything else. That is the problem with your magnetism analogy. That phenomenon produces regular patterns that can be recorded, analyzed and used to determine unknowns. Belief in anything doesn't share that sort of evidence no matter how much I may want a specific form of belief to be just that way.

They are not the same, but the process of hearing an idea, believing that there is something there, trying things out and then knowing something you did not before is the same in both situations.