Do Baha'i believe Jesus or the Holy Spirit can cure the Leper?

[Shantanu]

The virtues are the core that binds all Faiths and all peoples. All we can know of God is virtues.

Regards Tony

Hmmm.

 

[CG Didymus]

The point given by Baha'u'llah is that they all have the same source.

It is progressive Revelation and evolves just as life also evolves.

Regards Tony

But they don't evolve. They are given in a pure form by a manifestation, then they devolve into some else. Something gets added into the mix by men. Things like reincarnation or that Jesus rose from the dead, or, worse yet, that the people take the original words literally. It gets so bad that the original "pure" message is lost. Then, a new manifestation has to come and correct all the mistakes and false teaching that got added in. That's not exactly "progressive" revelation, which would that be like building on the old teachings? But, the old, "pure" teachings don't exist, unless you think the Quran is the perfect Word of God? 'Cause you don't say that about the Bible. Baha'is say it isn't 100% authentic. How'd that happen? Who let false or wrong things get into the Bible? So, instead of building on the old, the new manifestation has to progressively fix the wrong teachings.

But, I do believe people and their religions are progressing, just not how Baha'is say they have progressed. But, like Protestant Christianity, they regressed to progress. They went back to the Bible and left off a lot of what had been added by the Universal or "Catholic" Christian Church. So what's wrong with them? They use only the Bible. Ah, yes... they made the mistake of taking it too literal. Jesus didn't come back to life. He's dead gone and has since rotted away. But his Spirit lives on. Fine, but then you have to believe that the disciples hid the dead body and kept it a secret. Is that what you think?

 

[CG Didymus]

To be more concise ... they say ... "I agree with you, but you're wrong." It's really far too simplistic for anybody with many brains at all to fall for. Thank goodness.

How does it go? "Yes, Vinayaka... I agree with you that Hinduism is the Truth and came from the same God that sent our prophet. However, our prophet says that there is no reincarnation and that Krishna is a manifestation. So you see we totally agree with you... except where you've been misled to believe other things."

 

[CG Didymus]

I know many that have found their balance in these issues and know in this earth the search never ends. One will always have to battle with ones own self.

The answers offered on this forum are the balance they have found and each has had to find their own balance.

If its such a quandry for you, just do not consider what Baha'u'llah has offered and sort it out another way.

Personally, Baha'u'llah has proven to me He is to be 100% trusted. Why is that important? Well one then becomes immersed in the ocean of the wisdom offered, all things become reconciled.

Regards Tony

Well, I don't 100% know if any religion is correct 100% of the time. Even Baha'is don't believe all the other religions are 100% correct with everything. But, that's just great that you're 100% sure. I'm not. But even if it's only 10% sure about the Baha'is, why wouldn't I keep listening to you and the other Baha'is? Unfortunately, with some of the Baha'i answers, the percentage drops. But, don't worry. I like you and will always listen to your opinions and beliefs... and that's gotta be good, right?

 

[CG Didymus]

Hello everyone,

Baha'is deny --on the basis of science-- the supernatural events and miracles recorded by other religions. Do they also deny that Jesus or the Holy Spirit can cure the Leper or the blind?

Haven't heard from you in a while. How's thing going?

 

[Vinayaka]

How does it go? "Yes, Vinayaka... I agree with you that Hinduism is the Truth and came from the same God that sent our prophet. However, our prophet says that there is no reincarnation and that Krishna is a manifestation. So you see we totally agree with you... except where you've been misled to believe other things."

It's clear, from your excellent analysis, (and my reading comprehension skills) that the Baha'i faith interpretation of both Christianity and Islam differs quite substantially from both the Christian and Islamic interpretations of their respective faiths. But these faiths all fall under the same general category of Abrahamic. So if they mangled that, imagine how much they mangle faiths like mine, or Buddhism, which are an entirely differing paradigm. I've read a few different short articles here and there and frankly, it's really quite out there. But the Christians and Islamics also have a very incomplete understanding of Sanatana Dharma, so I guess the apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

All we can know of God is everything that we can see, touch, smell, feel, perceive, hear or deduce by any other means. God is everything, every + or - force, all and nothing.

Thats is good.

I see we would agree to the extent of the reliability of our material senses in connection with our spiritual reasoning.

Thus creation does portray the attributes of God, as creation comes forth from the revelation of these attributes. We are told to study nature and the Truths will unfold.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But they don't evolve.

I would offer that the Christains have accepted the progression and then Muslims excepted another progression and then the Bab and Baha'u'llah have explained how it is a progression.

I saw a post recently where someone had posted what each Faith brought to humanity and how each builds upon the first.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Well, I don't 100% know if any religion is correct 100% of the time. Even Baha'is don't believe all the other religions are 100% correct with everything. But, that's just great that you're 100% sure. I'm not. But even if it's only 10% sure about the Baha'is, why wouldn't I keep listening to you and the other Baha'is? Unfortunately, with some of the Baha'i answers, the percentage drops. But, don't worry. I like you and will always listen to your opinions and beliefs... and that's gotta be good, right?

CG all things and thoughts done in the spirit of friendship, is great.

Baha'u'llah had said he will raise people that are solid in Faith. It has naught to do with me as far as I can see . I have no idea how I went from no Faith to strong Faith, except by deciding to read the first book offered to me called 'God Loves Laughter' by William Sears.

I did so at a time when I was very angry with my wife for taking on a Faith. I guess letting go of that preconceived anger was the turning point.

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

Expressing your vendetta, again, are you?

Yep....... it's time to send water wings, flippers, snorkels and face masks to all Bahais who are determined to drown themselves in Bahai oceans of Double-Think. In fact my initiative will be wicked enough to provide clockwork frogs in each package as an action therapy.

There have been a couple of Baha'i come to these forums that were honest enough to admit there were some serious problems, and were hoping to maybe subtly make some changes from the inside out, to make it more progressive. Historically, actions like that, when taken into reality, i.e. letters to their UHJ, have had them declared covenant breakers. Here they just get told off, and in one case, just left. (google Professor Juan Cole) So there is little hope.

Yes...... Bahai often mentions how wonderful surges in discovery and advances in technology amazingly started to occur after the 1840's and 1850's. Anything good is Bahai, you know. But one advancement has sealed the fate of Bahai imo, and that is the World Wide Web of communication which can distribute Bahai Fact faster than Bahai can distribute Bahai-propaganda.

But, you as a deist, and me as a dharmic, we really have no place here other than to add some refuting ideas to the whole scheme. Nobody should be allowed to run rampant with any idea they want to. That's the nature of debate forums.

True........ and as far as I know, nobody has ever managed to run free with any ideas on RF. Debating and Discussion is the very essence of RF.

I have never had any desire at all to spread Deism because it's so individual that the idea of a Deist Club, Tower, Following or Church is simply cranky. That hopefully protects me from being told off for 'floggin' faith' or whatever its called.

 

[oldbadger]

Thats is good.

Thank you.

I see we would agree to the extent of the reliability of our material senses in connection with our spiritual reasoning.

None of the senses mentioned involve spiritual anything. You make it look as if recognising my breakfast cereal is a spiritual experience.... it's not. My body just reacts in a 'Um, Food..... Tasty...... Eat Food..... I forgot the bloody Tea!' chain of thoughts.

I expect that a Guru can experience deep sensations during any activity in their minute, or their lifetime, but I expect that you and I, we might be far too submerged in oceans of Mammon to get very 'spiritual'.

Thus creation does portray the attributes of God, as creation comes forth from the revelation of these attributes. We are told to study nature and the Truths will unfold.

Regards Tony

Hopefully truths may unfold and come forth to thee, verily. But this stepping in to and out of a James 1 bible dialect might tend to caste veils over the Bahai writings even further.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

But this stepping in to and out of a James 1 bible dialect might tend to caste veils over the Bahai writings even further.

Over the years I have found KJV adds to the depth of understanding and enjoyment of reading, much more poetic.

I now prefer to read Kings James Translations of the Bible for this reason, it flows better with that poetic ring.

I would have not known this, that is, if one Bible site I visit for quotes, had not put about 25 english translations to compare.

I happily choose KJV or NIV translations now.

Thou art free to partake of it all, as you so wish.

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

Over the years I have found KJV adds to the depth of understanding and enjoyment of reading, much more poetic.

I now prefer to read Kings James Translations of the Bible for this reason, it flows better with that poetic ring.

I would have not known this, that is, if one Bible site I visit for quotes, had not put about 25 english translations to compare.

I happily choose KJV or NIV translations now.

Thou art free to partake of it all, as you so wish.

Regards Tony

Hmmm...... my

Over the years I have found KJV adds to the depth of understanding and enjoyment of reading, much more poetic.

I now prefer to read Kings James Translations of the Bible for this reason, it flows better with that poetic ring.

I would have not known this, that is, if one Bible site I visit for quotes, had not put about 25 english translations to compare.

I happily choose KJV or NIV translations now.

Thou art free to partake of it all, as you so wish.

Regards Tony

Ah, well..... My only bible is a tiny 4" X 3" KJV Bible which was given to my great Grandmother on her 21st birthday.
And since KJV bibles can be downloaded for free then that is what I have for reference.
I don't mind reading 17th century English but if used today by street evangellists etc it rings of pretension, slightly.

Or do you think that your God Prefers it?

 

[Vinayaka]

Hmmm...... my

Ah, well..... My only bible is a tiny 4" X 3" KJV Bible which was given to my great Grandmother on her 21st birthday.
And since KJV bibles can be downloaded for free then that is what I have for reference.
I don't mind reading 17th century English but if used today by street evangellists etc it rings of pretension, slightly.

Or do you think that your God Prefers it?

I bought Coles notes for Shakespeare. Not that I didn't like it, but it seemed so unnecessary to the gist of the story.

 

[oldbadger]

I bought Coles notes for Shakespeare. Not that I didn't like it, but it seemed so unnecessary to the gist of the story.

I miss some of the intent, humour and subtleties in Shakespeare's plays. I'm just not used to reading and listening to them. That's true of the KJV bible as well, which is why I need to read it very slowly...... can't relax with it.

Chaucer is just about lost to me.

I think that one does need to be fluent in old dialects in order to be fully sensitive to them.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Hmmm...... my

Ah, well..... My only bible is a tiny 4" X 3" KJV Bible which was given to my great Grandmother on her 21st birthday.
And since KJV bibles can be downloaded for free then that is what I have for reference.
I don't mind reading 17th century English but if used today by street evangellists etc it rings of pretension, slightly.

Or do you think that your God Prefers it?

Well as my english is not good, I can say that Shoghi Effendi went to England to study English so he could better translate. He was very good at it and out of all the styles he chose the Kings James style as best able to render translations from Arabic and Persian with an appropriate meaning and flow.

We are told to not water down the writings to understand, but to bring ourselves up in knowledge to understand. Thus the importance placed on education.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That's true of the KJV bible as well, which is why I need to read it very slowly

That may be a good thing I read and talk way to fast and thus not clear both ways. I have spent years trying to slow down.

Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

I miss some of the intent, humour and subtleties in Shakespeare's plays. I'm just not used to reading and listening to them. That's true of the KJV bible as well, which is why I need to read it very slowly...... can't relax with it.

Chaucer is just about lost to me.

I think that one does need to be fluent in old dialects in order to be fully sensitive to them.

That's true, and why I don't bother. Why go there when humour and entertainment is readily available. Would you fly to Australia to find a beach that was just the same as the one in England?

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That's true, and why I don't bother. Why go there when humour and entertainment is readily available. Would you fly to Australia to find a beach that was just the same as the one in England?

Thats just it, there are beaches in Australia that you can never find the likes of in England. Thats why the English flock to Aussie beaches.

Depends if one wants to experience the whole, or keep ones views confined to a certain aspect.

Experience a unity in diversity.

Ha ha, could not help that.

Regards Tony

 

[oldbadger]

That's true, and why I don't bother. Why go there when humour and entertainment is readily available. Would you fly to Australia to find a beach that was just the same as the one in England?

Our foreshore here offers a different range of benefits to .... say........ Bondi.

In S.W. Blows (the prevailing winds) this foreshore is one of the big centres for Kite-Boarding folks. On even the coldest, windiest winter days their kites can be seen way out offshore, racing across the horizon and lifting the boarders high up in the air as they change tacks. Modern wet and dry suits make British waters accessible all year round. Must be more exciting than a surf board, for sure.

I expect that visiting Australians probably want to come here....