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Do God the Father and God the Son have physical bodies?

ἀλήθεια, are you by any chance an ex-Mormon? Your posts are not at all typical of most non-Mormons' posts. You quote different sources and ask different questions, and are, in general, fairly knowledgable on Mormonism. So, in spite of the fact that I see many of your questions as baiting (sorry if I'm misreading you, that's just how they strike me), I can't help but think you know more than you are letting on. If I'm wrong about that, where are you getting your information from?

I do not see my posts as baiting. I have mostly shared LDS sources to provide information to non-LDS. I may be fairly knowledgable about your religion, but I also have many questions. My questions are generally followed by question marks although I occasionally make typing errors. My personal background is no more important than any other person's. Most of my information is from the books cited and from lds.org. And I always give sources so your question about them is unnecessary.
 
So, in spite of the fact that I see many of your questions as baiting (sorry if I'm misreading you, that's just how they strike me), I can't help but think you know more than you are letting on.

One of my questions pertains to Doctrine and Covenants 132:20. "How does a person who has all power have less power than God?" That, IMO, is a totally legitimate question. And I do not know the LDS explanation for it.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
ἀλήθεια;1414184 said:
I do not see my posts as baiting. I have mostly shared LDS sources to provide information to non-LDS. I may be fairly knowledgable about your religion, but I also have many questions. My questions are generally followed by question marks although I occasionally make typing errors. My personal background is no more important than any other person's. Most of my information is from the books cited and from lds.org. And I always give sources so your question about them is unnecessary.
Sorry to have offended you. I was simply curious, that's all. I didn't think I was getting overly "personal."
 

Watchmen

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
ἀλήθεια;1414188 said:
One of my questions pertains to Doctrine and Covenants 132:20. "How does a person who has all power have less power than God?" That, IMO, is a totally legitimate question. And I do not know the LDS explanation for it.

The power is in the relationship. God is and forever will be our Heavenly Father. No matter how far we progress we will always be subservient to Him, indebted to Him - we will always worship Him - acknowledge Him as our Creator - acknowledge that we are nothing without Him - and so on.

I suspect that just as many children develop a greater appreciation for their parents when they reach adulthood, we'll have an even greater appreciation for God when/if we reach the promise of Doctrine and Covenants 132:20.
 

Jordan St. Francis

Well-Known Member
So, to be clear, is the doctrine that we will be as powerful as God, (in the sense that a full-grown child becomes the equal of his parents) but that (as with the parent example) God continues to receive all the respect due to one's parents? (and in that sense always remains our superior?)

This may seem repetitive, but sometimes its difficult (especially with these subjects) to be clear on exactly what another poster means.

I don't want to accuse you of holding to any doctrines you don't actually teach.
 
So, to be clear, is the doctrine that we will be as powerful as God, (in the sense that a full-grown child becomes the equal of his parents) but that (as with the parent example) God continues to receive all the respect due to one's parents? (and in that sense always remains our superior?)

It seems that you have hit the nail on the head.

Be careful in presenting this material that you don’t bring God down to man’s level. Our objective is to perfect ourselves and raise our level to his exalted place.
(Search These Commandments, Melchizedek Priesthood Personal Study Guide, Copyright 1984, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, p. 158)
 

Scott C.

Just one guy
So, to be clear, is the doctrine that we will be as powerful as God, (in the sense that a full-grown child becomes the equal of his parents) but that (as with the parent example) God continues to receive all the respect due to one's parents? (and in that sense always remains our superior?)

This may seem repetitive, but sometimes its difficult (especially with these subjects) to be clear on exactly what another poster means.

I don't want to accuse you of holding to any doctrines you don't actually teach.

It's a fair question, but I don't know the answer. I know what our scriptures say, but those scriptures don't spell out specific answers to your specific questions, IMO.

We will be joint heirs with Christ. The Father will give us ALL that He has. He uses the word "god" to describe such heirs, but not "God". I believe the specific answers to your questions are mysteries to be revealed later.

I will repeat myself, because I believe it's worth repeating. The simple fact "I am a child of God" is the most sublime and beautiful concept revealed to the world through the restoration IMO. This fact raises lots of intriguing questions, like the ones you ask. We don't have answers to all of these questions, only speculation.

I would ask any non-LDS to consider the beauty of "I am a child of God" and understand how powerful this concept is as you consider your relationship to Heavenly Father. I know all Christians love God and they know that God loves them with great love. But without taking offense at my suggestion, consider the beauty of the concept of the infinite Paternal love of an Omnipotent Father for His literal children.

The concept is beautifully simple and simply beautiful. It is powerful and true.

Yes, the concept leads us down the path of lots of answered questions. Personally I don't dwell on those questions, I just savor the knowledge that "we are Heavenly Father's children" and He loves and treats us as such. If we accept and follow His gospel plan, we become heirs of Father's promises to His children and joint heirs with Christ.
 
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Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
So, to be clear, is the doctrine that we will be as powerful as God, (in the sense that a full-grown child becomes the equal of his parents) but that (as with the parent example) God continues to receive all the respect due to one's parents? (and in that sense always remains our superior?)
I'd say you explained it pretty well, actually. We will be equal to God in terms of godly attributes and qualities (perfect love, knowledge, compassion, justice, ets.), but will not be equal to Him in "rank." (That's not the word I wanted, but it was the only one I could think of at the moment.) I think it's also important to keep in mind that we can achieve none of this on our own. It's because He wants us to be as perfect as He is that He has given us the power to be able to. Once we have become what He wants us to become, He will bless us with godly powers and abilities. But He is will always be the object of our worship.

This may seem repetitive, but sometimes its difficult (especially with these subjects) to be clear on exactly what another poster means.
If it takes repetition, that's no problem. It's clear that you really do want to understand, and that is very much appreciated.

I don't want to accuse you of holding to any doctrines you don't actually teach.
Again, thank you.
 
...Yes, the concept leads us down the path of lots of answered questions. Personally I don't dwell on those questions, I just savor the knowledge that "we are Heavenly Father's children" and He loves and treats us as such. If we accept and follow His gospel plan, we become heirs of Father's promises to His children and joint heirs with Christ.

The Bible says, "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" (John 1:12)

It also says(speaking of the scribes and Pharisees), "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." (John 8:44)

Your LDS scripture says, "15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.
16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.

18 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God." (Doctrine and Covenants 132).

"Such a person eventually receives godhood and becomes a member of the "church of the Firstborn." (D&C 76:54.)
Roy W. Doxey, "Accepted of the Lord: The Doctrine of Making Your Calling and Election Sure," Ensign, Jul 1976, 50
Note:
Roy W. Doxey, dean emeritus of Religious Instruction at Brigham Young University, serves as a Regional Representative of the Council of the Twelve.

In your Doctrine and Covenants, Section 76, blessings are promised:



"They are they who are the church of the Firstborn.

"They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things—

"They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory;

"And are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son.

"Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God—

"Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.

"And they shall overcome all things." (D&C 76:52–60.)

"These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.

"These are they who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just.

"These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood." (D&C 76:62, 65, 69.)

Doctrine and Covenants 76 goes on to say:


92 And thus we saw the glory of the celestial, which excels in all things—where God, even the Father, reigns upon his throne forever and ever;
93 Before whose throne all things bow in humble reverence, and give him glory forever and ever.

94 They who dwell in his presence are the church of the Firstborn; and they see as they are seen, and know as they are known, having received of his fulness and of his grace;

95 And he makes them equal in power, and in might, and in dominion.

96 And the glory of the celestial is one, even as the glory of the sun is one.

Your prophet, Spencer W. Kimball said:

"Only through celestial marriage can one find the strait way, the narrow path. Eternal life cannot be had in any other way." - Pres. Spencer W. Kimball, quoted in the Deseret News, Church News, Nov. 12, 1977

"The ordinances of the temple, the endowment and sealings, pertain to exaltation in the celestial kingdom, where the sons and daughters are. The sons and daughters are not outside in some other kingdom. The sons and daughters go into the house, belong to the household, have access to the home. ‘In my Father’s house are many mansions’ [John 14:2]. Sons and daughters have access to the home where he dwells, and you cannot receive that access until you go to the temple. Why? Because you must receive certain key words as well as make covenants by which you are able to enter. If you try to get into the house, and the door is locked, how are you going to enter, if you haven’t your key? You get your key in the temple, which will admit you.". . . You cannot find a key on the street, for that key is never lost that will open the door that enters into our Father’s mansions. You have got to go where the key is given. And each can obtain the key, if you will; but after receiving it, you may lose it, by having it taken away from you again unless you abide by the agreement which you entered into when you went into the house of the Lord." -Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:40–41

So my question to you would be, although LDS consider all humans to be literal children of God at birth, don't these children face the possibility of being cut off from that status if they do not become part of the Church of the Firstborn?
 

Scott C.

Just one guy
ἀλήθεια;1415340 said:
The Bible says, "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:" (John 1:12)

It also says(speaking of the scribes and Pharisees), "Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it." (John 8:44)

Your LDS scripture says, "15 Therefore, if a man marry him a wife in the world, and he marry her not by me nor by my word, and he covenant with her so long as he is in the world and she with him, their covenant and marriage are not of force when they are dead, and when they are out of the world; therefore, they are not bound by any law when they are out of the world.
16 Therefore, when they are out of the world they neither marry nor are given in marriage; but are appointed angels in heaven, which angels are ministering servants, to minister for those who are worthy of a far more, and an exceeding, and an eternal weight of glory.

17 For these angels did not abide my law; therefore, they cannot be enlarged, but remain separately and singly, without exaltation, in their saved condition, to all eternity; and from henceforth are not gods, but are angels of God forever and ever.

18 And again, verily I say unto you, if a man marry a wife, and make a covenant with her for time and for all eternity, if that covenant is not by me or by my word, which is my law, and is not sealed by the Holy Spirit of promise, through him whom I have anointed and appointed unto this power, then it is not valid neither of force when they are out of the world, because they are not joined by me, saith the Lord, neither by my word; when they are out of the world it cannot be received there, because the angels and the gods are appointed there, by whom they cannot pass; they cannot, therefore, inherit my glory; for my house is a house of order, saith the Lord God." (Doctrine and Covenants 132).

"Such a person eventually receives godhood and becomes a member of the "church of the Firstborn." (D&C 76:54.)
Roy W. Doxey, "Accepted of the Lord: The Doctrine of Making Your Calling and Election Sure," Ensign, Jul 1976, 50
Note:
Roy W. Doxey, dean emeritus of Religious Instruction at Brigham Young University, serves as a Regional Representative of the Council of the Twelve.

In your Doctrine and Covenants, Section 76, blessings are promised:



"They are they who are the church of the Firstborn.

"They are they into whose hands the Father has given all things—

"They are they who are priests and kings, who have received of his fulness, and of his glory;

"And are priests of the Most High, after the order of Melchizedek, which was after the order of Enoch, which was after the order of the Only Begotten Son.

"Wherefore, as it is written, they are gods, even the sons of God—

"Wherefore, all things are theirs, whether life or death, or things present, or things to come, all are theirs and they are Christ’s, and Christ is God’s.

"And they shall overcome all things." (D&C 76:52–60.)

"These shall dwell in the presence of God and his Christ forever and ever.

"These are they who shall come forth in the resurrection of the just.

"These are they who are just men made perfect through Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, who wrought out this perfect atonement through the shedding of his own blood." (D&C 76:62, 65, 69.)

Doctrine and Covenants 76 goes on to say:


92 And thus we saw the glory of the celestial, which excels in all things—where God, even the Father, reigns upon his throne forever and ever;
93 Before whose throne all things bow in humble reverence, and give him glory forever and ever.

94 They who dwell in his presence are the church of the Firstborn; and they see as they are seen, and know as they are known, having received of his fulness and of his grace;

95 And he makes them equal in power, and in might, and in dominion.

96 And the glory of the celestial is one, even as the glory of the sun is one.

Your prophet, Spencer W. Kimball said:

"Only through celestial marriage can one find the strait way, the narrow path. Eternal life cannot be had in any other way." - Pres. Spencer W. Kimball, quoted in the Deseret News, Church News, Nov. 12, 1977

"The ordinances of the temple, the endowment and sealings, pertain to exaltation in the celestial kingdom, where the sons and daughters are. The sons and daughters are not outside in some other kingdom. The sons and daughters go into the house, belong to the household, have access to the home. ‘In my Father’s house are many mansions’ [John 14:2]. Sons and daughters have access to the home where he dwells, and you cannot receive that access until you go to the temple. Why? Because you must receive certain key words as well as make covenants by which you are able to enter. If you try to get into the house, and the door is locked, how are you going to enter, if you haven’t your key? You get your key in the temple, which will admit you.". . . You cannot find a key on the street, for that key is never lost that will open the door that enters into our Father’s mansions. You have got to go where the key is given. And each can obtain the key, if you will; but after receiving it, you may lose it, by having it taken away from you again unless you abide by the agreement which you entered into when you went into the house of the Lord." -Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 2:40–41

So my question to you would be, although LDS consider all humans to be literal children of God at birth, don't these children face the possibility of being cut off from that status if they do not become part of the Church of the Firstborn?

If we don't follow the gospel plan, we will not be heirs of the promises. We will be cut off from our Heavenly Father's presence. As far as I know, the Father to child relationship still exists as a matter of literal genealogy, but there is no inheritance.

Remember as I said before, we become the sons of Christ through the gospel covenant. Those who are kept from the Father's presence are not sons in that regard.
 
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jtartar

Well-Known Member
This thread is a spin-off from a Book of Mormon related thread in discussion with Roli and others.

The Doctrine and Covenants (D&C) is a collection of separate modern day revelations, received mostly by Joseph Smith, and is accepted by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as scripture.

The Doctrine and Covenants states the following in Section 130:22, 23:

“The Father has a body of flesh and bones as tangible as man’s; the Son also; but the Holy Ghost has not a body of flesh and bones, but is a personage of Spirit. Were it not so, the Holy Ghost could not dwell in us.”

The LDS Church believes that God the Father and God the Son each have separate and distinct immortal and glorified physical bodies. Since the D&C is accepted as scripture by the LDS Church, the passage quoted above is sufficient to establish this church doctrine.

The Bible is also accepted by the LDS church as scripture. What does the Bible say concerning the corporeal nature of the Father and the Son?

Genesis 1:

26 ¶ And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

God said let us make man in our image. “Us” includes the Father and the Son. They created us in their image. We look like them, literally.

Exodus 24:
9 ¶ Then went up Moses, and Aaron, Nadab, and Abihu, and seventy of the elders of Israel:
10 And they saw the God of Israel: and there was under his feet as it were a paved work of a sapphire stone, and as it were the body of heaven in his clearness.
11 And upon the nobles of the children of Israel he laid not his hand: also they saw God, and did eat and drink.

The elders of Israel saw God. They saw something “under his feet”. The God they saw had form, including feet.

Exodus 33
22 And it shall come to pass, while my glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with my hand while I pass by:
23 And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen.

God refers to his hand, his face, and his back parts.

Exodus 33:

11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend.

When Moses saw God, he saw him as a person. He spoke with him “face to face” the same way that we talk to our friends “face to face”.

Those who believe the Bible and yet don’t accept that God has bodily form, usually interpret these anthropomorphic references to God as being non-literal or only figurative. I, however, believe these versus to be literal. God has hands, feet, and a face. He has form and prophets have seen his bodily form.

Some may say that while they accept that God has appeared in bodily form to prophets, this was a temporary form for communication purposes, but does not represent the actual nature or form of God. However, I believe that the Bible should be taken literally on these points. God has appeared to man in bodily form and he did so because he indeed possesses bodily form.

Scott C,
There is a term called ACCOMMODATION and another called ANTHROPOMORPHISM. These terms mean that God inspired His writers to pen words that were easily understandable to men. God speaks of Himself as having eyes, face, mouth, Ps 115:1-8. God even speaks as if he has a soul like we are, Ps 11:5, Prov 6:16. By using terms we are very familiar with we can easily understand what God is teaching us.
We do not need to guess what kind of a body God and Jesus have, the scriptures tell us plainly. God is THE SPIRIT, 2Cor 3:17, John 4:23,23. God is also INVISIBLE to men, Col 1:15, 1Tim 1:17.
Jesus is also a spirit. Jesus lived in heaven untold billions of years before God sent him to earth.
Jesus is to become the King of God's Kingdom, Like 1:33. Flesh and blood cannot inherit God's Kingdom, 1Cor 15:50. The Holy Scriptures tells us that when Jesus gave his life as the great Lamb that takes away the sins of the world, he was put to death in the flesh, but was made alive in the spirit, 1Pet 3:18.
When Jesus was resurrected by God, Jesus was exalted to a superior position, Phil 2:9, Acts 2:33.
Fleshly men are lower than spirit creatures, even Jesus was lower than angels when on earth as a man, Heb 2:9.
 

herushura

Active Member
God the Father, is every ones father, God the Son is a pun. King david is called the son of god, and he was a messiah as it said that he was annoited.

The only physical body "yhwh" as is the "Ark of the covenent", and what the covenent does is that,
theye is a small miniture boat, and a box. they would rock it, and when it stopped rocking, it would face either left or right, Left = NO, right = YES. this is how they communicated with the yhwh. Amen, Horus, Osiris, and may other gods of egypt had thery very own ark of coventent, which they would sail down the nail, with the same concept..
 

gurucam

Member
Do God the Father and God the Son have physical bodies?

According to the KJV N.T., the lord Jesus is the son of God.

The Lord Jesus had two presentations. One physical and temporal, the other Spirit and eternal.

1. In one presentation the Lord Jesus was the son of man. In this format the Lord Jesus had a physical, 'seen' and temporal, son of man body. He was the son of the Holy Spirit and Mother Mary. This is how Peter and all others (except Paul) of that time, knew the Lord.

2. In His other presentation, the Lord Jesus is the Son of God. In this format the Lord Jesus is clad only in His Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal, Son of God body. In this pure Spirit format, the Lord Jesus is totally and purely the Son of Holy Ghost. Only Paul knew and communed with the Lord in this Spirit only format.

After his crucifixion, the Spirit of the Lord Jesus was regenerated. And the Lord rose to heaven clad only in His Spirit body. Thereafter, from among all the people there at that time, only Paul was able to and did discern and commune with the Lord Jesus (i.e. after he rose to heaven and was clad only in His Spirit body). This is how Paul and only Paul knew and communed with, the Lord. Paul did not know the Lord when he was in his physical, 'seen' and temporal, son of man body. Paul knew the Lord only after he was crucified and rose to heaven.

Fact is Peter and all others need physically discernible signs from the Lord Jesus even after He was crucified and rose from the dead. And indeed the Lord provide these. Peter and Co refused to look to thing that were 'not seen' and eternal.

Therefore, Peter and all the others could not and did not commune with the Lord when he was in that Spirit only format. Peter and all the others looked only to things that were 'seen' and temporal. They could not and did not look to things that are 'not seen' and eternal. Peter and Co, remained this way even to this day.

Currently Jesus dwells in spirit heaven, in His Spirit only format. He is resident on the right side of the Holy Ghost. Although the Lord Jesus is clad only in a Spirit body, He remains a separate entity from the Holy Ghost so as to make intercession on behalf of each human with the Holy Ghost. The Spirit of the Lord Jesus makes intercession with the Holy Ghost on behalf of each person according to things in each of their individual hearts or spirits. This is achieved though a connection between the heart or spirit of each person and the Spirit of the Lord Jesus. No one connects directly with the Holy Ghost. Then for this connection the Spirit of the Lord Jesus makes intercession on behalf of the person with the Holy Ghost.

From this the Spirit of the lord Jesus comes up with precisely what each person must know, pray for say and do. What the Spirit of the Lord Jesus has in mind for one to know, pray for, say and do (as discerned within one's own heart or spirit) is a perfect amalgam of two things which are: 1.) the things which are the fabric of one's own heart or spirit and 2.) the will of God which is the Holy Ghost.

The instruction in the KJV N.T. is very clear. Each human who can, must search his own heart or spirit to discern and know what the Spirit of the Lord Jesus has in mind for him or her to know, pray for, say and do. Those who are led into all their works by this inevitably do the will of the living God. They are saved and delivered into God's kingdom of heaven, here on earth and in the spirit realm. They also become child of God and Christians. This is the only path.

So there you have it, the Lord Jesus had two distinct presentations. In one he was the physical, 'seen' and temporal, son of man, Lord Jesus. In this format he had a physical body. In the other presentation He is the Spirit, 'not seen' and eternal Son of God, Lord Jesus. In this second format the Lord Jesus has not physical body. One can blaspheme the former and one will be forgiven. However if one blaspheme the latter on will not be forgiven at any place or time.

With respect to the Holy Ghost, fact is God is a Spirit. He does not have a physical body.
 
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gurucam

Member
Actually, the Bible doesn't clearly state anything about spirit not being matter, nor does it say anything about God being un-created.

.

The KJV N.T. confirms that there are two bodies. And they are different. One natural and the other spiritual.

With respect to the bodies of the Lord Jesus:
1 Corinthians: 15 KJV N.T.
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
This revelation also confirms that the Lord Jesus was raised to heaven only in a spirit body.
1 Corinthians: 15 KJV N.T.
47 The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
 
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Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
The KJV N.T. confirms that there are two bodies. And they are different. One natural and the other spiritual.

With respect to the bodies of the Lord Jesus:

This revelation also confirms that the Lord Jesus was raised to heaven only in a spirit body.
Gurucam, whatever, darling.
 

gurucam

Member
Gurucam, whatever, darling.

Are you saying that you accept the KJV N.T. revelations? Or are you holding a neutral, aloof and none participatory position? I am not clear.

Holding a neutral position is not an option. To hold a neutral position is the same as holding an erroneous or uninformed position. They are both one way tickets to a bad place.

Are you saying that you agree that the Lord Jesus was sown a natural body but was raised s spiritual body and that there is a natural body and a spiritual body?

1 Corinthians: 15 KJV N.T.
44 It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
Here are some more literally supporting information from the KJV N.T.:
John: 16 KJV N.T.
7. Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
12. I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
13.Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
Are you aware that there were many things which the physical, 'seen' and temporal, son of man, Lord Jesus could not and did not tell even his disciples. He left it to the Spirit of Truth to bring these things after he was crucified and rose to heaven. In fact the physical, 'seen' and temporal, son of man Lord Jesus did not bring any Truth. It was appointed that the 'not seen' and eternal, Spirit, Son of God, Lord Jesus (i.e. the Spirit of Truth) would bring All Truth after the physical, 'seen' and temporal, son of man Lord Jesus was crucified and rose to heaven.
John: 14 KJV N.T.
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
Since the Lord Jesus is the truth, the way and the life, the Spirit of Truth must be the Spirit of the Lord Jesus. This must be the Lord Jesus clad only in His 'not seen' and eternal, Spirit, Son of God body. This the Lord Jesus eternal format. (You do know that for a short while the Lord Jesus was on earth clad in his physical 'seen' and temporal, son of man body)

The revelation above confirmed that this Spirit of the Lord Jesus/Spirit of Truth was to be made available only after the physical, 'seen' and temporal, son of man, Lord Jesus was crucified. Then his Spirit would be regenerated, i.e. as the Spirit of Truth. And then the Lord Jesus would (like all the chosen few Christians) rise in three days, to be like an angel in heaven (i.e. he would rise to spirit heaven, clad only in His Spirit body).

2 Corinthians: 3 KJV N.T.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
The following is the liberty which the Spirit of the Lord Jesus grants:
The Acts: 13 KJV N.T.
39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
34 Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us.
Are you also accepting that the Lord Jesus rose to heaven, clad only in his 'not seen' and eternal, Spirit, Son of God, body and is seated (as a separate entity) on the right side of the Holy Ghost? Are you also accepting that the Lord Jesus,clad only in his spirit body is the Spirit of Truth and that Spirit is Lord and where this Spirit is present there is liberty?

Are you also accepting that the Lord Jesus is clad only in his Spirit body and he is seated on the right side of the Holy Ghost in spirit heaven and he is waiting, ready, willing and able to make intercession with the Holy Ghost, on behalf of humans.


However each human must search his own heart or spirit to know precisely what this Spirit of the lord Jesus/Spirit of Truth has in mind for him to know, pray for, say and do. Therefore this is only about having communion with the Spirit of the Lord Jesus through one's own heart or spirit. This is not about physically reading and physically hearing the scriptures.

From this communion with the Spirit of the Lord Jesus, the Spirit of the lord Jesus will make intercession on behalf of one with the Holy Ghost, according to the things in one's own heart or spirit. And the Spirit of the Lord Jesus will come up with precisely what one must know, pray for, say and do. This would be a perfect amalgam of two things, i.e. 1.) the ideas beliefs, interests, needs desires and aspiration that are the fabric of one's own spirit and 2.) the will of God which is the holy Ghost.

Then he who searches his own heart comes to know precisely what the Spirit of the Lord Jesus has in mid for him to know, pray for, say and do. Then when he is led into all his works by this he becomes a child of God. He is saved and delivered into God's kingdom of heaven, here on earth and later in spirit heaven. He is under grace of God And he has God given freedom, liberty and justification to transgress the law (i.e. the Ten Commandments) and get no sin but instead be glorified by God.:
Romans: 8 KJV N.T.
26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

There are lots more revelations in the KJV N.T. which absolutely and literally support the above claim.
 
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Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Are you saying that you accept the KJV N.T. revelations? Or are you holding a neutral, aloof and none participatory position? I am not clear.
You're not clear on a whole lot of things.

Holding a neutral position is not an option. To hold a neutral position is the same as holding an erroneous or uninformed position. They are both one way tickets to a bad place.
Let me help you out here. In the few posts you've made on RF so far, you have stated on several occasions, as explicitly as possible without using these exact words, that anybody who holds a different opinion than you do, who uses a different translation of the scriptures than you do, who interprets a single passage of scripture differently than you do, or who has a different take on any point of Christian doctrine than you do is going to Hell. Period. The End.

I can't even begin to tell you have offensive I find that attitude. Nobody's perfect, but I am actually quite able to overlook most flaws I see in people. Heaven knows, I have enough of my own. There is one thing I absolutely cannot stomach, though, and that is a self-righteous, holier-than-thou, judgmental know-it-all. To be perfectly honest, I didn't even read your post. I saw no reason to read it or any of your future posts.
 

12jtartar

Active Member
Premium Member
After Jesus died and was resurrected, he said (Luke 24):

39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Jesus made it very clear that his resurrected body is one of “flesh and bones”. Jesus taught before the crucifixion that he would overcome death and rise again. When Jesus was resurrected, this was very different from coming back to life as a mortal. His mortal life was over. He came back from death with an immortal body.

Jesus ascended to heaven with the same resurrected body of “flesh and bone”. The angels said he would someday return to earth in the same manner (Acts 1:11).

When Jesus returns to earth, we will see him as the resurrected Lord with a physical body, the same body that was raised from the tomb in the New Testament.

Jesus never shed his resurrected body. There is no Biblical evidence to suggest that Jesus is no longer the “resurrected Christ”. Jesus’ state of resurrection with a physical body is permanent.

The Lord Jesus Christ (God, the Son) sits today on the right hand of his Father (God, the Father) as a glorified, resurrected, and physical Being.

We read this in Acts 7 concerning the vision of Stephen:

55 But he, being full of the Holy Ghost, looked up stedfastly into heaven, and saw the glory of God, and Jesus estanding on the right hand of God,
56 And said, Behold, I see the heavens opened, and the Son of man standing on the right hand of God.

Who did Stephen see? Stephen saw two Divine Personages, God the Father and God the Son. Where was the Son? He was on the right hand of the Father. Jesus was exactly the same as when he appeared to his disciples and when he ascended to heaven. He was God the Son, resurrected from the dead with a physical body. He is the same today and will be forever.

So far, I’ve established that God the Father and God the Son have bodily form. I’ve also established that the Son’s body is a resurrected body of flesh and bone.

Hebrews 1 says, referring to the Son:

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

This teaches that God the Son is in the express image of God the Father. There are no differences in any godly attributes, forms, or appearances. God the Son looks like and acts like God the Father in all respects. They are more unified than mortals can fully comprehend. This is true, while maintaining their separate physical and spiritual persons. God the Son is on the “right hand of the Majesty on high” which is God the Father.

God the Son was resurrected to have a permanent and eternal physical body because his Father and our Father also has a permanent physical body. We will one day be resurrected from the dead also. In that day, like Jesus, we will receive a resurrected body of flesh and bones that will know no sickness, pain, or death. We will be immortal and physical like the Father and the Son and we will continue to be in their image.

Probably the most common Biblical scripture used by some to dispute the corporeal nature of the Father and the Son is found in John 4:

24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.

God has a spirit. His spirit is clothed with his immortal body. We also have spirits and our spirits are clothed with our mortal bodies. God has a spirit component to his nature. We should worship God in spirit and in truth.

God is also light. God is also truth. But, God is not simply light or simply truth. He is truth, light, spirit, and more. He is also a physical being.

1 John 3 says:

2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.

When the Son of God appears again, we will “see him as he is” and we will be “like him”. We will see that he has form and that our form is in his image. We will also see that the Father has form and we and the Son are in the image of the Father.

Scott C,
Do you also believe that angels also have physical bodies??? Angels came to earth and materialized physical bodies, so that the ate food with Abraham, Gen 18:1-8. Angels often materialized human bodies, Dan 8:15-17, 9:21, Genesis, 32:24-32. If angles could materialize fleshly bodies, Jesus could also, after he was resurrected, Luke 24:13-16,30,31, 36-41, John 20:11-14, 19, 21:1, 4-7. Several of Jesus' disciples saw Jesus but did not recognize him, because he was materializing different bodies. Jesus even came through the wall when they were eating.
Another thing to remember, humans are lower than Angels, even Jesus, Heb 2:9. Jesus was an angel before he was born on earth, as a man, and the Bible says that God exalted him to a higher position. That could not be as a fleshly body. Flesh and blood cannot enter the Kingdom of the Heavens, 1Cor 15:50. The Bible tells us that Jesus was put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit, and in that state Jesus went and preached to angles in prison, which Jesus could not even see as a human, 1Pet 3:18,19.
Jesus' disciples said that they would not know Jesus in the flesh again, 2Cor 5:16.
Jesus, being exalted above the angels could not be flesh and blood, Heb 1:4,6,9, Philippians 2:5-11.
 
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