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Do innocent sinful people go to hell?

Thief

Rogue Theologian
That still doesn't answer my question.

Your God is all encompassing, all power, all knowing and omnipresent. He's always been and always will be.. If he already knows everything that will happen and he is your creator, your will giver, then you actually don't have any true free will.
freewill is an everyday demo.....
at the end of your days...the clay stiffens....it fails to move
you die

God and heaven then come about to see what stands from the dust

I hope you have the will to do so
if not....you follow your body into the box....and into the ground

if you have the will to stand before God and heaven....I hope....
They will allow it
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I am aware of what the Bible says about the wicked which is that if they do not accept Jesus and repent, they will go to eternal hell. But what about an innocent person who has lived a sinful life?

This person would be someone who lived a homosexual life or someone who lived a selfish life their entire life, but was still a kind and respectful innocent person towards others.

This person never repented or anything because he/she thought that there was nothing wrong with his/her way of life.

He/she thought that it was not sinful at all because as long as he/she was kind and innocent towards others, he/she would think that what he/she is doing is not sinful and would not send him/her to hell at all.

It would be the most cruel and unfair thing to send an innocent person to hell. Also, what about someone who has bad harmful thoughts towards others, but didn't harm anyone? Would they go to hell?

I think it is important to understand the Bible does not teach that God will torture the wicked forever in hellfire. It does teach that because all of us were born sinful and imperfect, we are under sentence of death. (Romans 5:12) God has lovingly made provision to free us from sin's deadly grip. I believe God expects us to "seek God, if [we] might grope for him and really find him, although, in fact, he is not far off from each one of us....True, God has overlooked the times of such ignorance; but now he is declaring to all people everywhere that they should repent. (Acts 17:27,30) From childhood on, we see evidence for the true God in the world around us. Still, the majority ignore God and follow their own selfish tendencies. God will hold us accountable for what we do. ( Romans 1:18-21)
 

The Transcended Omniverse

Well-Known Member
How can anyone be sinful & innocent at the same time? How can anyone be selfish but somehow kind & respectful to others?
From a Biblical view, you can't. From a common sense view, you can't.

You are innocent if you have not done anything wrong ever in your life & you are severely naive of everything around you. But if you are fully aware of the difference between right & wrong and you are sinfully aware, then you are not innocent.
Sinning (according to the bible/s) is just like committing a crime, if you have not committed a crime, then you are innocent & thus not sinful.

But seriously from what I experienced, its impossible to live a life without sinning. Add that with the Seven Deadly Sins and your goal towards not ever sinning becomes that much harder.
It is said that the Natural Moral Law is written into our hearts so that we can instinctively know what is right and wrong. So even though I live only for my own pleasure which is considered a selfish sin in the bible, my natural instinct tells me that there is nothing wrong with this.

As long as I am kind towards my family and don't harm other innocent people, then I myself am an innocent person. So even though I am selfish and live for my own pleasure, I am still innocent and that should get me to heaven.

If it were wrong (which would make me no longer innocent), then there would be a natural instinct that would tell me that it is wrong to live for my own pleasure. But this was never the case.

Even if, let's pretend, that I was homosexual which is said to be a sin in the Bible, my natural instinct would still tell me that there is nothing wrong with this act. I am sure many other homosexuals feel the same way as well.

So I find that the Natural Moral Law is a contradiction to some of the acts in the Bible claimed as sins. If these said acts were sins, then we should instinctively know that they are wrong.

I will also apply this to the 10 commandments. One of the 10 commandments is not to create any graven image. So if this were wrong to do, then people in other parts of the world who have never heard the bible and the 10 commandments who create their own graven image, then their natural instinct should tell them that this is the wrong thing to do. But this isn't so either.

Lastly, I am asking this question in the context of Christianity. What does the Christian view have to say about this?
 
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Kelloggs

Member
I am aware of what the Bible says about the wicked which is that if they do not accept Jesus and repent, they will go to eternal hell. But what about an innocent person who has lived a sinful life?

This person would be someone who lived a homosexual life or someone who lived a selfish life their entire life, but was still a kind and respectful innocent person towards others.

This person never repented or anything because he/she thought that there was nothing wrong with his/her way of life.

He/she thought that it was not sinful at all because as long as he/she was kind and innocent towards others, he/she would think that what he/she is doing is not sinful and would not send him/her to hell at all.

It would be the most cruel and unfair thing to send an innocent person to hell. Also, what about someone who has bad harmful thoughts towards others, but didn't harm anyone? Would they go to hell?
Is this a Biblical question then?

John 3:18, 20, 21 NIV
"Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son."
"Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed."
"But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God."

John 8:47 NIV
"Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.""
 

interminable

منتظر
I am aware of what the Bible says about the wicked which is that if they do not accept Jesus and repent, they will go to eternal hell. But what about an innocent person who has lived a sinful life?

This person would be someone who lived a homosexual life or someone who lived a selfish life their entire life, but was still a kind and respectful innocent person towards others.

This person never repented or anything because he/she thought that there was nothing wrong with his/her way of life.

He/she thought that it was not sinful at all because as long as he/she was kind and innocent towards others, he/she would think that what he/she is doing is not sinful and would not send him/her to hell at all.

It would be the most cruel and unfair thing to send an innocent person to hell. Also, what about someone who has bad harmful thoughts towards others, but didn't harm anyone? Would they go to hell?
He or she didn't harm anybody but him/herself

Faith and religion isn't just to be kind towards the others but there are lots of duties that are obligation on everybody
Everybody should try not to go to the hell
If being kind towards the others was enough Was it necessary for God to send messengers and scriptures???

Anyway
those who commit sins and do bad they deserve to go to hell but deserving something and happening are two cases

We know that God will forgive many but who exactly????
 

12jtartar

Active Member
Premium Member
MattMVS7,
Before I can answer that question, I want to show you what the Bible actually says.
If you use the King James Bible, turn to Acts 2:27, 31. Now, the problem here is, different Bibles use different words at this place, some use Hell, some Hades, some grave. Understand that the King James Bible writers actually changed the words Hades, that was in the original Greek writings, to Hell, in older versions.
The original word Hades, means the common grave that all mankind go to at death. The word Hades, means the same thing as the word Sheol, in the Hebrew Scriptures, as can be seen in Psalms 16:10.
Now, these Scriptures are referring to Jesus, who was in the Grave, Hell, Hades, for parts of three days.
Since Jesus was the perfect son of God, Jesus definitely would not go into a place of torment. Jesus went into the same place that people go when they die, the Grave.
The vast majority of the people who have died in the past, will be resurrected back to life again , just as Jesus was, John 5:28,29, Acts 24:15.
So you see, the word Hell is the same as Hades, and means only the grave, a place from where they can be resurrected, and not a place of punishment.
 
The Bible says that God is omniscient and omnipotent but "all encompassing" and "omnipresent"....that is not in the scriptures. God is given a location ("Our Father who art in heaven") and his omniscience means that he can know what is going on anywhere he chooses. He doesn't have to be omnipresent.

God has free will and so do we. We can align our will to his and benefit from his wisdom, or we can choose to enact our own will in defiance of his.
The Bible is a record of people who did both so that we can evaluate the outcome of our own choices. He forces no one to do anything against their will, but simply tells them about the consequences of their choices. Sounds fair to me.
So your God is NOT all powerful? That's the only way you would ever have ever have free will... But the Bible teaches he IS all powerful.. The Bible is flawed and thus irrelevant.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Many Buddhist schools make a point of underscoring the moral duty to visit hell if we can help it. Because it is there that we can make the most significant difference to our brothers in confusion and torment.

Of course, that is hardly a direct translation of the expectations of Christian or Muslim understandings of "hell".
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I am aware of what the Bible says about the wicked which is that if they do not accept Jesus and repent, they will go to eternal hell. But what about an innocent person who has lived a sinful life?
This person would be someone who lived a homosexual life or someone who lived a selfish life their entire life, but was still a kind and respectful innocent person towards others.
This person never repented or anything because he/she thought that there was nothing wrong with his/her way of life.
He/she thought that it was not sinful at all because as long as he/she was kind and innocent towards others, he/she would think that what he/she is doing is not sinful and would not send him/her to hell at all.
It would be the most cruel and unfair thing to send an innocent person to hell. Also, what about someone who has bad harmful thoughts towards others, but didn't harm anyone? Would they go to hell?

What Scriptures make you aware the wicked go to eternal hell when the Bible's hell is temporary ?
Can you think of anyone righteous' innocent who at death went to biblical hell ? ________
According to Acts of the Apostles 2:27 righteous/innocent Jesus went to hell.
If biblical hell was a permanent place then Jesus would still be in hell.
Since Jesus was well educated in the old Hebrew Scriptures then Jesus taught what they taught:
The dead are in a sleep-like ( Not burning-like ) state -> John 11:12-14
- Psalms 6:5; Psalms 13:3; Psalms 115:17; Psalms 146:4; Daniel 12:2 Daniel 12:13; Ecclesiastes 9:5
So, the Bible's hell is simply the grave for the unconscious sleeping dead until resurrection day.
Isn't the Bible's hell temporary according to Revelation 20:13-14 ?
Under Christ's millennium-long day of governing over Earth, after everyone is ' delivered up ' (KJV ) meaning resurrected out of biblical hell, then biblical hell is left empty. Vacant emptied-out hell is then cast into a figurative ' second death ' for vacated hell.

So, in a nut shell, except for those committing the unforgivable sin - Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6 - the dead will have a resurrection. Some to heaven - Revelation 20:6; 5:9-10, but the majority of people will have a happy-and-healthy physical resurrection back to life on Earth with the opportunity to live forever on Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall.

As far as the wicked are concerned they will simply be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7
Jesus will even destroy wicked Satan - Hebrews 2:14 B.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
So your God is NOT all powerful? That's the only way you would ever have ever have free will... But the Bible teaches he IS all powerful.. The Bible is flawed and thus irrelevant.

What Scripture teaches that God can do all things (all powerful)?
Doesn't Titus 1:2 and Hebrews 6:18 teach there are things God can Not do such as: God can Not lie.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
He or she didn't harm anybody but him/herself
Faith and religion isn't just to be kind towards the others but there are lots of duties that are obligation on everybody
Everybody should try not to go to the hell
If being kind towards the others was enough Was it necessary for God to send messengers and scriptures???
those who commit sins and do bad they deserve to go to hell but deserving something and happening are two cases
We know that God will forgive many but who exactly????

God forgives those who truly or genuinely 'repent ' so as Not to ' perish ' (be destroyed) - 2 Peter 3:9

The unrepentant wicked do Not ' go to hell ' but rather they will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7
Those who commit the unforgivable sin are destroyed - Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6.
By the words from Jesus' mouth he will destroy the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16.
- Proverbs 2:21-22

The Bible's hell is simply man's temporary grave until Resurrection Day ( Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth ). That is why Acts of the Apostles 24:15 uses the ' future tense' that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....
 

interminable

منتظر
God forgives those who truly or genuinely 'repent ' so as Not to ' perish ' (be destroyed) - 2 Peter 3:9

The unrepentant wicked do Not ' go to hell ' but rather they will be destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7
Those who commit the unforgivable sin are destroyed - Matthew 12:32; Hebrews 6:4-6.
By the words from Jesus' mouth he will destroy the wicked - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16.
- Proverbs 2:21-22

The Bible's hell is simply man's temporary grave until Resurrection Day ( Jesus' millennium-long day of governing over Earth ). That is why Acts of the Apostles 24:15 uses the ' future tense' that there ' is going to be ' a resurrection.....
I'm a muslin
The details about hell is in Quran and according to our religion our souls will never die just our bodies can be destroyed

Yeah those who repent truly will go to heaven
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
"innocent sinful people" is an oxymoron
Yeah, since Christians are always born in sin. For others, if you have heard of Jesus (in case of Muslims, Mohammad), then it is imperative that you believe that (Good News or the latest version of law by Mohammad's God). Otherwise you are doomed to eternal hell.
 
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Gyrannon

Agnostic Necromancer
Should consider the Sociopath's viewpoint: They don't see evil in anything, they are always out for themselves, and regardless if they hurt someone or not, they believe they are always in the right.
Their natural instinct is to look out for themselves & to hell with everyone else.

And honestly, Right & Wrong isn't automatically added to our brains, we are taught what is right & wrong.
 

Hawkins

Well-Known Member
I am aware of what the Bible says about the wicked which is that if they do not accept Jesus and repent, they will go to eternal hell. But what about an innocent person who has lived a sinful life?

This person would be someone who lived a homosexual life or someone who lived a selfish life their entire life, but was still a kind and respectful innocent person towards others.

This person never repented or anything because he/she thought that there was nothing wrong with his/her way of life.

He/she thought that it was not sinful at all because as long as he/she was kind and innocent towards others, he/she would think that what he/she is doing is not sinful and would not send him/her to hell at all.

It would be the most cruel and unfair thing to send an innocent person to hell. Also, what about someone who has bad harmful thoughts towards others, but didn't harm anyone? Would they go to hell?

Law is law, if an adult break it then he has offended the law and will be put to jail. Do the courts in your country free a murderer killing out of his innocence?

Moreover, no man today is more innocent than Adam and Eve. And I actually doubt anyone can be innocent in today's world.

If you happen to find someone who is innocent, tell him that children in Africa are dying of hunger on a daily basis. If he donate all his money to save the children then he's innocent. Or else, he's a murderer like everyone else in this forum when put in front of God's Law.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I'm a muslin
The details about hell is in Quran and according to our religion our souls will never die just our bodies can be destroyed
Yeah those who repent truly will go to heaven

Thank you for your reply.
According to Jesus' words our souls can be destroyed - Matthew 10:28 B
That is in harmony with the teaching that the soul dies according to Ezekiel 18:4; Ezekiel 18:20
Also, gospel writer Luke wrote at Acts of the Apostles 3:23 that the soul can be destroyed.
Destruction awaits the wicked according to Psalms 92:7
Peter wrote we have two (2) choices if we want everlasting life:
We either ' repent ' so as Not to ' perish ' (be destroyed) - 2 Peter 3:9

Besides a heavenly hope, to me, Jesus also promised an earthy hope at Matthew 5:5
Some resurrected to heaven - Revelation 20:6, but the majority of people having the hope of everlasting life on a beautiful paradisical Earth as originally offered to Adam before his downfall - Revelation 22:2
 

Etritonakin

Well-Known Member
I am aware of what the Bible says about the wicked which is that if they do not accept Jesus and repent, they will go to eternal hell. But what about an innocent person who has lived a sinful life?

This person would be someone who lived a homosexual life or someone who lived a selfish life their entire life, but was still a kind and respectful innocent person towards others.

This person never repented or anything because he/she thought that there was nothing wrong with his/her way of life.

He/she thought that it was not sinful at all because as long as he/she was kind and innocent towards others, he/she would think that what he/she is doing is not sinful and would not send him/her to hell at all.

It would be the most cruel and unfair thing to send an innocent person to hell. Also, what about someone who has bad harmful thoughts towards others, but didn't harm anyone? Would they go to hell?

That is technically not what it says.....

To fully understand any subject in scripture, all scripture on the subject should be referenced.

Isaiah 28:9Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
10For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little

The following are the most important verses -in my opinion -to consider first...

I Cor 3:13
Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire

I Cor15:21For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead. 22For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. 24Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. 25For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. 26The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death

Those who have not been called during this lifetime -and who are not made immortal at the first resurrection -will be resurrected to the judgment after the thousand years after Christ begins to reign on Earth.
They will then be judged according to their works -and many will have done good works.
Our works technically include our attitude, understanding, innocence, malevolence, etc., and God will consider all.
Some will receive life -and some will "have their part" in the lake of fire.

The best way to think about the lake of fire is that it is unquenchable and indefinite -but one's experience of it are dependent upon the spiritual state and attitude of the individual -which will have been reflected by their works during their life.
It is a fire by which God purifies -he is like a refiner's fire.
It is written that God is able to destroy both body and spirit in the lake of fire.
It is also written that it is possible for one to experience it "for ever and ever" -but those things are not necessarily what will happen -and certainly not to every individual -if any.

The beast and false prophet are the first to be cast into the lake of fire -even a thousand years before the devil. Exactly what that experience will be is not explained in great detail -but it will not be pleasant. While it is written that they will be tormented "for ever and ever" -that may or may not mean without any possibility of end.
If any can be turned to repentance, that is what will happen.

We do not know whether all can be turned to repentance it is possible -whether some are completely incorrigible -whether some must be destroyed -but God is not cruel. What he does is for good reason and the best possible good for all.
The lake of fire is an ultimatum. God cannot allow disobedience and destruction into eternity.
Given that judgment -and time experiencing it -and then seeing the real possibility to live in happiness forever may eventually turn even the most evil to repentance.
Perhaps not. I do not know.
That is between them and God.
 
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