Do Muslims and Jews worship the same God?

[J2hapydna]

lol uhm do you even read what i wrote?
I wrote that i dont believe that muslims are idolaters. While at the same time i believe that they dont pray to the same g*d like we do.
Do you know what idol worship is and that there is a difference between idolatry and worshipping other g*ds?

Where do i contradict Rambam?

Your personal opinion not withstanding, if goy are not idolaters and follow the seven laws of Noah, they are Noachides. You contradict Rambam and mainstream Jewish scholarship by suggesting Noachides worship another god. Christians on the other hand, according to Rambam are idoltatrous. What part of this argument do you not understand?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I think it's obvious why some Jews would want to deny they have the same god as Muslims, and it's purely political. The non-Zionist Jews like Rabbi Weiss still maintain that Muslims and Jews do have the same god. All I've heard so far is Zionist political jargon as to why they don't have the same god.

 

[J2hapydna]

Maimonides believed that the Muslims were not idolaters. But he still considered Islam to be a heresy.

What is an elitist? I lived in Saudi Arabia. And my Muslim barber would say that the Jews and Christians are "people of the book", but they have been as you said "led astray and do not worship the God of Abraham". The Quran does say this as well.

Precisely, Rambam recognized the followers of Islam as non idolatrous Ishmaelites (non Israelite descendants of Abraham) who practiced a Jewish heresy that obeys all seven Noachide laws. Gentile nations according to Orthodox Judaism are not expected to adopt Judaism. They are expected to worship the Jewish God by adhering to the seven laws of Noah.

Whether a person is an elitist or pluralist has nothing to do with the religion they practice. There are jerks in all religions of the world, with chips on their shoulders. So an elitist Jew will disregard the opinions of his pluralist Jewish sages and declare Muslims are not semitic or do not worship the God of Abraham. An elitist Muslim will disregard the opinions of pluralist Muslim scholars and declare that western Jews are descendants of European tribes who do not worship the God of Abraham etc. Pluralists on the other hand, recognize the thread that binds us together rather than the lies that divide us .

 

[Rakhel]

Yeah and rabbi weiss and his racist group have been rejected by a vast majority of Jews. Last i quecked, not even Monsey wants him there.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Yeah and rabbi weiss and his racist group have been rejected by a vast majority of Jews. Last i quecked, not even Monsey wants him there.

Yeah it seems that's how the Zionists react to all non-Zionist Jews these days rakhel, by calling us racists and bigots, and self-haters.

 

[Flankerl]

Your personal opinion not withstanding, if goy are not idolaters and follow the seven laws of Noah, they are Noachides. You contradict Rambam and mainstream Jewish scholarship by suggesting Noachides worship another god. Christians on the other hand, according to Rambam are idoltatrous. What part of this argument do you not understand?

Ok again do you know what idolatry is? Its about the worship of humans or any object. Thats it. That is idolatry. It has nothing, absolutely nothing to do if the person actually believes only in HaShem. Its more of a additional point if the person only believes in

But now you are just going to write that i contradict rambam(which by the way is nothing bad at all, we are talking about judaism after all).
Also you have to read what rambam wrote in the context of the time he lived in. It wasnt exactly a good time to pick a theological fight with islam. He knew that because he saw what the almohads were doing in iberia.

Yeah it seems that's how the Zionists react to all non-Zionist Jews these days rakhel, by calling us racists and bigots, and self-haters.

So how do you call jews that cheer on every israeli jew who is murdered?

Ah i know: True torah jews.

 

[Rakhel]

Not all Jews are Zionist. But you have already made up your mind. It is only the Natueri Karta who keep the full of the Torah while placing blame on the Sephardim for the death and the destruction of thousands of European Jews and the full reason behind the Holocaust.
Members of their group have been excommunicated because of what they have said not only Iran but world wide about the holocaust. Do you even know who you are idolizing? I seriously doubt it.

Usually you are an okay guy, Senedjem. But when you get on your "Israel is bad and the nutrei karta are the only ones right" kicks, I begin to question how much you really listen to what you are saying.

 

[arizol]

By "them" do you mean Mamonides and the rabbis were Muslims? You can have your personal opinion, but stop pretending most Jews disagree with Mamonides and the Jewish sages. Either quote the rabbis or stop pretending to represent most Jews.

them I mean Christians and Muslims. I think you got to re read my posts or learn English, my words do not contradict Rambam, Rabbis were Muslims? looool.

Don't tell me to stop go learn Judaism first and then come back, otherwise your not making any sense.

 

[J2hapydna]

Ok again do you know what idolatry is? Its about the worship of humans or any object. Thats it. That is idolatry. It has nothing, absolutely nothing to do if the person actually believes only in HaShem.

Non idolatrous gentiles who obey the seven laws are Noachides. So did Noah worship a non Jewish God? So, how does a Noachide not worship a Jewish God? You are just an elitist like the Muslim barber in Saudi Arabia.

 

[J2hapydna]

Muslims in Judaism are considered noachides but it is the only treatment that they get in Jewish scholarship since they haven't yet earned the right for us Jews consider them our own, they have caused us to much sorrow and to this day they continue to do so, I see no reason to think they believe in our G-D because if they would they would treat us better, same goes for Christians.

Jews are not the ones who have to accommodate their believes to Islam or Christianity, it is the opposite because Judaism does not need Islam or Christianity to prove its existents but Islam and Christianity need Judaism to explain theirs. So it is only one way, if they believe in our G-D and not the other way around.

How can Muslims in Judaism be considered noachides and Muslims not worship the God of the Jews? Did noah worship a non Jewish god?

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Not all Jews are Zionist. But you have already made up your mind. It is only the Natueri Karta who keep the full of the Torah while placing blame on the Sephardim for the death and the destruction of thousands of European Jews and the full reason behind the Holocaust.
Members of their group have been excommunicated because of what they have said not only Iran but world wide about the holocaust. Do you even know who you are idolizing? I seriously doubt it.

Usually you are an okay guy, Senedjem. But when you get on your "Israel is bad and the nutrei karta are the only ones right" kicks, I begin to question how much you really listen to what you are saying.

I did not say Nutrei Karta was right. I said that what they say about virtually all the Rabbis of his time condemning Hertzel and Zionism is correct.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

So how do you call jews that cheer on every israeli jew who is murdered?

Ah i know: True torah jews.

I don't know about "true Torah Jews" since I'm secular, but I do know I am extremely saddened for my Jewish brethren flocking to Israel because I believe they're being set up for another holocaust. The state of Israel doesn't care about Jews, it cares about maintaining it's Zionist state. I actually care if thousands more Jews get massacred over Zionism. Zionism is a political ideaology with a political agenda. Political agendas often don't care about people. I had ancestors in the holocaust, so don't imply I don't care about Jews ever again.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

See this is why I detest Zionism. Zionism had made you hate me, your fellow Jew, and accuse me of not loving and caring about my fellow Jews, when nothing is further from the truth. Your opinion of me is twisted and warped by a political doctrine, and you think I'm a self-hater.

 

[shankara_kalady]

Precisely, Rambam recognized the followers of Islam as non idolatrous Ishmaelites (non Israelite descendants of Abraham) who practiced a Jewish heresy that obeys all seven Noachide laws. Gentile nations according to Orthodox Judaism are not expected to adopt Judaism. They are expected to worship the Jewish God by adhering to the seven laws of Noah.

Whether a person is an elitist or pluralist has nothing to do with the religion they practice. There are jerks in all religions of the world, with chips on their shoulders. So an elitist Jew will disregard the opinions of his pluralist Jewish sages and declare Muslims are not semitic or do not worship the God of Abraham. An elitist Muslim will disregard the opinions of pluralist Muslim scholars and declare that western Jews are descendants of European tribes who do not worship the God of Abraham etc. Pluralists on the other hand, recognize the thread that binds us together rather than the lies that divide us .

Yes, there are some people who try to see the similarities and others who see the differences. But you can't blame the people who see the differences as their scriptures show the same thing as well. Are there people who co-exist peacefully who are of these religions? Sure, the answer is yes. There is a place in Kerala, India where a Hindu temple, a mosque and a church that is on the same street right next to each other.

 

[J2hapydna]

Yes, there are some people who try to see the similarities and others who see the differences. But you can't blame the people who see the differences as their scriptures show the same thing as well. Are there people who co-exist peacefully who are of these religions? Sure, the answer is yes. There is a place in Kerala, India where a Hindu temple, a mosque and a church that is on the same street right next to each other.

To me, scriptures are like mirrors, one sees a reflection of oneself in them. A hater finds reasons to see everyone beneath herself and her tribe, blaming everyone else for her problems. A pluralist finds reasons to be compassionate, fair and equal in humanity, sharing the blame for her problems in the world.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

So I see Flankerl and Rakhel now have nothing to say regarding their accusations against me.

 

[fallingblood]

I think it's obvious why some Jews would want to deny they have the same god as Muslims, and it's purely political. The non-Zionist Jews like Rabbi Weiss still maintain that Muslims and Jews do have the same god. All I've heard so far is Zionist political jargon as to why they don't have the same god.

Why don't you stop spreading this hateful BS? We all know you hate the Zionists, and Israel, etc. We get it. And from what it looks like, many think you do so based on ignorance. But seriously, this whole Zionist conspiracy idea is getting old and tiresome. Stop pretending to be a martyr already.


As for whether or not the Jews and Muslims worship the same God, I would say yes. However, that has always been my understanding. It's the same God, but worshiped in different ways.

Both trace their heritage back to Abraham, and claim to worship the same God. I don't feel like I'm in a position to argue against that. However, there is no question as to whether or not they worship God differently, or see God differently.

I believe the same goes with Christians. As far back as to at least the 2nd century, there were Christians who rejected the Hebrew God. Marcion stands out to me, as well as some other Gnostics. However, both religions, Christianity and Judaism, trace their heritage back to Abraham, and claim, for the most part, to worship that God. However, their ideas about God are not the same.

 

[Flankerl]

Non idolatrous gentiles who obey the seven laws are Noachides. So did Noah worship a non Jewish God? So, how does a Noachide not worship a Jewish God? You are just an elitist like the Muslim barber in Saudi Arabia.

Yeah yeah perhaps iam even worse.

Again the law speaks about idolatery and that is what the name implies. Worshipping idols.
If you cant understand that i cant help you.
Idol worship does not equal "you shall have no g*d beside me" as its something different.

Also there are various branches of buddhism whose followers can be considered Bnei Noah while they dont believe in any g*d or g*ds. Which obviously is impossible following your logic.

So I see Flankerl and Rakhel now have nothing to say regarding their accusations against me.

Yeah because i have nothing else to do the whole day but to sit in front of my PC and wait for you to post something. Dont be so full of yourself.

I don't know about "true Torah Jews" since I'm secular, but I do know I am extremely saddened for my Jewish brethren flocking to Israel because I believe they're being set up for another holocaust. The state of Israel doesn't care about Jews, it cares about maintaining it's Zionist state. I actually care if thousands more Jews get massacred over Zionism. Zionism is a political ideaology with a political agenda. Political agendas often don't care about people. I had ancestors in the holocaust, so don't imply I don't care about Jews ever again.

lol you show up with the neturei karta and dont even know what they stand for.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

lol you show up with the neturei karta and dont even know what they stand for.

I told you I'm not with Neturei Karta, what I stated above is my honest opinion. I am a secular Jew against Zionism. Although I doubt you'd accuse Maimonides of being with "Neturei Karta" after what he said about the three strong oaths of a Jew.

 

[Jacksnyte]

Well, to get back to addressing the OP question, are those who claim that the different Abrahamic faiths each worship different gods saying that at some time after Abraham, the god of Abraham split into more than one(and here, I DON'T mean any trinitarian idea)? If they started out as the same god, what would cause them to suddenly be more than one?