Do Muslims want to Assimilate?

[Flankerl]

I'd say depends on the guest's incoming ideology.

No it doesn't.
Assimilation is to lose everything of your previous culture and completely adapting a new culture.
That is beyond stupid and quite hostile.

Which is why Integration is the key.

 

[Aquitaine]

I'm a European muslim and I don't want to assimilate but I do belief integration is important.To me assimiliation means to leave my cultural and islamic traditions behind and that's not something I'm willing to do because my culture and religion are a part of my indentity. I also belief that by forcing people to assimiliate you will push people out of society.

But I do think integration is important. We should respect and abide by the law of the country..interact with others respectfully.And try to contribute to society.I can't force my beliefs on others or expect them to follow it.

I belief that one can integrate and practice their cultural or religious traditions as long as those traditions aren't harmful to society.
For example I wear hijab (head scarf) I might not look "western" but I'm not harming anyone by wearing it nor am I forcing other women to dress the same. And my headscarf isnt holding me back from taking part in society.

The problem is when we expect people to assimiliate meaning "be like us otherwise we will not accept you"
For many of us it feels like an ultimatum..your indentity,culture and religion or being part of society. I can't speak for other muslims but if I get that ultimatum I will choose to take a step back and not participate in society. Because why should I take part in a society that doesn't accept me for who I am.

Whilst I understand your position on the assimilation ultimatum, there is another side of that coin in the form of "my religion/god trumps your country's man-made laws and customs". It's a give and take situation: the host shouldn't force the guest to assimilate, but the guest must at least respect the laws, the customs and make an effort to integrate.

This is why Secularism is so important. Lots of different religions can co-exist under the umbrella of a Secular foundation which helps regulate and balance the many differing ideologies.

 

[icehorse]

No it doesn't.
Assimilation is to lose everything of your previous culture and completely adapting a new culture.
That is beyond stupid and quite hostile.

Which is why Integration is the key.

We have different definitions of assimilation.

 

[icehorse]

Whilst I understand your position on the assimilation ultimatum, there is another side of that coin in the form of "my religion/god trumps your country's man-made laws and customs". It's a give and take situation: the host shouldn't force the guest to assimilate, but the guest must at least respect the laws, the customs and make an effort to integrate.

This is why Secularism is so important. Lots of different religions can co-exist under the umbrella of a Secular foundation which helps regulate and balance the many differing ideologies.

"my religion/god trumps your country's man-made laws and customs" sounds like the words of an invader. This quote of yours is clearly not in the spirit of even integrating. If you think that way, why did you come to your host country in the first place?

 

[Aquitaine]

"my religion/god trumps your country's man-made laws and customs" sounds like the words of an invader. This quote of yours is clearly not in the spirit of even integrating. If you think that way, why did you come to your host country in the first place?

Sorry, I should have elaborated. The perspective I quoted wasn't that of someone who wants to integrate, but of someone who refuses to entirely.

 

[Sakeenah]

Whilst I understand your position on the assimilation ultimatum, there is another side of that coin in the form of "my religion/god trumps your country's man-made laws and customs". It's a give and take situation: the host shouldn't force the guest to assimilate, but the guest must at least respect the laws, the customs and make an effort to integrate.

This is why Secularism is so important. Lots of different religions can co-exist under the umbrella of a Secular foundation which helps regulate and balance the many differing ideologies.

I agree and that's what I said in my post we should respect the law and people of the country.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Here are examples of the problem
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-30129645
http://www.theguardian.com/politics...urbs-extremism-birmingham-trojan-horse-affair
Note that I've taken the reports from 2 left-wing, pro-multiculturalist sources, so no-one can scream "anti-imigrant bias!"

 

[Aquitaine]

I agree and that's what I said in my post we should respect the law and people of the country.

Indeed you did.
I just wanted to provide the counter-balance to "assimilate or leave" ("my god/religion trumps your man-made laws"). Some hosts can be problematic, some guests can be problematic.

 

[icehorse]

Indeed you did.
I just wanted to provide the counter-balance to "assimilate or leave" ("my god/religion trumps your man-made laws"). Some hosts can be problematic, some guests can be problematic.

I can imagine in theory "hosts being problematic", but do you have any examples?

 

[Aquitaine]

I can imagine in theory "hosts being problematic", but do you have any examples?

Japan is apparently very xenophobic, despite it having an aging population and in dire need of immigration.
Or Saudi Arabia trampling on the rights of non-muslim immigrants, for example.
EDIT: Or far-right hate groups attacking immigrants etc.

 

[icehorse]

Japan is apparently very xenophobic, despite it having an aging population and in dire need of immigration.
Or Saudi Arabia trampling on the rights of non-muslim immigrants, for example.
EDIT: Or far-right hate groups attacking immigrants etc.

Does a society have some obligation to welcome immigrants?

 

[Kirran]

Does a society have some obligation to welcome immigrants?

I would say it is our duty to help people who need help, to the extent of our abilities.

 

[icehorse]

I would say it is our duty to help people who need help, to the extent of our abilities.

I would agree that it's humane and compassionate and "good" to help people in need. At the same time, helpers cannot help, if the act of helping damages their own well being.

 

[Kirran]

I would agree that it's humane and compassionate and "good" to help people in need. At the same time, helpers cannot help, if the act of helping damages their own well being.

Depends how much, I think.

For example, my cousin had a breakdown and was taken in by the family. It was difficult. It reduced the quality of life of the family, of the people taking her in. But it still had to be done.

 

[Tumah]

Some factual claims from the article linked to below:

- About 44 million Muslims live in Europe
- Europe has been encouraging Muslim immigration for 70 years
- A significant percentage of the Muslims living in Europe disagree with secularism.

Of course I understand that NOT ALL MUSLIMS living in Europe fall into this category. On the other hand, we often use statistics to draw general conclusions; e.g. "cancer is dangerous", "green vegetables are nutritious", "seat belts save lives", "Ethiopians have shorter life spans", and so on.

So, is it fair to conclude that: "Muslim immigrants do not want to assimilate into their host countries." ?

http://www.investors.com/politics/editorials/why-do-europes-muslims-hate-the-west/

I think it depends on what you mean by assimilate. You mention that they disagree with secularism. That doesn't mean that they can't be contributing partners in European society. Are they willing to abide by the law? Pay their taxes? Learn the host language? I don't think they need to shave their beards and throw away their hijabs in order to be good citizens in European society.
What they need to do, is to integrate, not assimilate.

 

[Kirran]

I think it depends on what you mean by assimilate. You mention that they disagree with secularism. That doesn't mean that they can't be contributing partners in European society. Are they willing to abide by the law? Pay their taxes? Learn the host language? I don't think they need to shave their beards and throw away their hijabs in order to be good citizens in European society.
What they need to do, is to integrate, not assimilate.

When you were an American, did you want to assimilate? Did you want to integrate?

 

[icehorse]

I think it depends on what you mean by assimilate. You mention that they disagree with secularism. That doesn't mean that they can't be contributing partners in European society. Are they willing to abide by the law? Pay their taxes? Learn the host language? I don't think they need to shave their beards and throw away their hijabs in order to be good citizens in European society.
What they need to do, is to integrate, not assimilate.

I'm not talking about beards and hijabs. Are you saying that it's okay if they disagree with secularism?

 

[Tumah]

When you were an American, did you want to assimilate? Did you want to integrate?

I was integrated, I was not assimilated. I pay my taxes, followed the law, worked alongside non-Jews. I did not watch American entertainment or perform secular (ie. prohibited by Judaism) activities. I contributed, while retaining my identity.

 

[Tumah]

I'm not talking about beards and hijabs. Are you saying that it's okay if they disagree with secularism?

I don't see a problem with it, so long as they don't enforce their opinion on others in a non-democratic manner.

 

[Kirran]

I was integrated, I was not assimilated. I pay my taxes, followed the law, worked alongside non-Jews. I did not watch American entertainment or perform secular (ie. prohibited by Judaism) activities. I contributed, while retaining my identity.

Did you vote?