Do people still believe everyone decended from Adam and Eve?

[Aupmanyav]

I’m sorry, but your posts are just too stinkin’ long! I haven’t the time.

I do not know how it passed the muster. The post are supposed to be at least 5 characters long.

Please read @Eyes to See ‘s reply to your post.. this explanation re: DNA, that it had properties that helped it perform in ways different than today, is revealed in Scripture when we read of A&E’s offsprings’ long life spans...living for centuries...gradually diminishing w/ each successive generation after the Flood.

That explains it very clearly.

Which actually in light of genetics is not entirely wrong, except that they probably didn’t live at the same time and mate.

You mean Adam did not sleep with Eve and Eve did not sleep with Adam. lā ḥawla wa-lā quwwata ʾillā bi-llāhi.*
For those who do not know, Islamic way to say "O Allah, WTF", (if I am not wrong).

 

[Aupmanyav]

Make a few changes and everyone could be a descendant of Genghis Kahn.

We are all descendants of one, if not Genghis Khan. One father and one mother, who lived a 100,000 years apart.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

On the other hand, basic mathematics tells me that every single one of us on this planet has a common ancester, father or mother, who lived 100,000 years ago. The relationship would be, of course, somewhat remote. I'm not quite sure what it means to be an 87th cousin, 43 times removed.

Not possible. Some lines of descent died out. My Y chromosome dies with me. But my nephew (my brother’s son) has two sons. I have a half brother who has a son. It’s entirely possible my paternal male cousin has a son. Now, if my nephews don’t have anymore sons, the line that was me, my father, my grandfather, great-grandfather, great-great-grandfather, etc. dies. If my grandfather had brothers who had sons who had sons, etc. then my Y-DNA continues.

The short answer is that it’s a branching tree. Some branches die, others become vines.

The mathematics may be a bit daunting, but your reasoning doesn't hold. Yes, it is true that about 20% of everybody from about 1,000 years ago is the ancestor of nobody alive today -- their line died out. (For now, let's just talk about people of European descent.)

But the converse is much more interesting for you -- if you happen to be alive today! The remaining 80% of those living 1,000 years ago are all the ancestors of everyone alive today.

Let's do some numbers. Assume that the average length of a "generation" is about 25 years. It was shorter a long time ago, a little longer now, but that doesn't matter. Now, it is also true that everybody has 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great-grandparents, 16 great-greats...and so forth. Now in 1,000 years, we could have had probably about 40 generations. Now that means that if you could follow every genealogical line, you would have had 1,099,511,627,776 (39-great) ancestors!!!!

Only a tiny fraction of that number has ever lived on this planet, and therefore it is absolutely certain that each and every one of us shares ancestry with somebody who was alive 1,000 years ago. So I can conclude (assuming that you are of European descent) that you and I are both related -- in several lines of descent -- to Holy Roman Emperor Charlemagne, because I know for certain that his line did not die out.

Not of European ancestry? Then it only requires another 2,400 years. Everyone alive today on this planet can trace their ancestry back to at least one individual human who lived 3,400 years ago. (Notice, that if a line died out, nobody alive today could trace their ancestry back to that individual, which is how I rule out your statement.)

 

[Jainarayan]

[QUOTE="Evangelicalhumanist, post: 6883471, member: 47768]

On the other hand, basic mathematics tells me that every single one of us on this planet has a common ancester, father or mother, who lived 100,000 years ago. The relationship would be, of course, somewhat remote. I'm not quite sure what it means to be an 87th cousin, 43 times removed.

Not possible. Some lines of descent died out. My Y chromosome dies with me. But my nephew (my brother’s son) has two sons. I have a half brother who has a son. It’s entirely possible my paternal male cousin has a son. Now, if my nephews don’t have anymore sons, the line that was me, my father, my grandfather, great-grandfather, great-great-grandfather, etc. dies. If my grandfather had brothers who had sons who had sons, etc. then my Y-DNA continues.

The short answer is that it’s a branching tree. Some branches die, others become vines.[/QUOTE]
The mathematics may be a bit daunting, but your reasoning doesn't hold. Yes, it is true that about 20% of everybody from about 1,000 years ago is the ancestor of nobody alive today -- their line died out. (For now, let's just talk about people of European descent.)

But the converse is much more interesting for you -- if you happen to be alive today! The remaining 80% of those living 1,000 years ago are all the ancestors of everyone alive today.

Let's do some numbers. Assume that the average length of a "generation" is about 25 years. It was shorter a long time ago, a little longer now, but that doesn't matter. Now, it is also true that everybody has 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great-grandparents, 16 great-greats...and so forth. Now in 1,000 years, we could have had probably about 250 generations. Now that means that if you could follow every genealogical line, you would have had 1,809,251,394,333,065,553,493,296,640,760,748,560,207,343,510,400,633,813,116,524,750,123,642,650,624 !!!!

Only the tiniest, tiniest fraction of that number has ever lived on this planet, and therefore it is absolutely certain that each and every one of us shares ancestry with everybody who was alive 1,000 years ago. So I can conclude (assuming that you are of European descent) that you and I are both related -- in several lines of descent -- to Holy Roman Emperor Charlemagne.[/QUOTE]

You’re not understanding haplogroups, and getting autosomal chromosomes confused with haplogroups. My Y haplogroup is T, which originated in the Middle East. So, I am not of European descent. Haplogroup T is extremely rare and not found in northern and Central Europe, except possibly by Mediterraneans or Middle Easterners who now live there. Charlemagne’s Y haplogroup was R1b. We do not descend from the same paternal line. But even if one of my ancient Middle Eastern ancestors produced a child with a European, the genetic admixture is impossible to trace back to any particular person. In every generation the relation are halved. My nephews and I share 12.5% (+/-) DNA. Go back to great grandparents and the percentage is less. Four times great grandparents, and the relationship is negligible.

Autosomal chromosomes are those that give us our characteristics. But over the course of only a few generations they become so “diluted” that without a paper trail it’s virtually impossible to trace ancestry more than 500 years or so. That’s why DNA testing companies make that disclaimer. It’s wishful thinking that so many people are related to or descended from Charlemagne, Chinggis Khan, Ragnar Loðbrök or any other famous person or royalty.

 

[firedragon]

Are there still people in the 21st century that believe all humans are descendents from Adam and Eve, only two people?

Wouldn't that mean that when they had children, to have more children,,,
-the dad/mom had to sleep with their son/daughter,,,
-brother/sisters slept together,,,
-aunts/uncles slept with nephews/nieces
-etc.

If not can some logically explain how they populated the earth without doing any of that?
By the way, all of that is forbidden in the bible

Leviticus 18:8-18
8 “Do not have sexual relations with any of your father’s wives, for this would violate your father.

9 “Do not have sexual relations with your sister or half sister, whether she is your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born into your household or someone else’s.

10 “Do not have sexual relations with your granddaughter, whether she is your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter, for this would violate yourself.

11 “Do not have sexual relations with your stepsister, the daughter of any of your father’s wives, for she is your sister.

12 “Do not have sexual relations with your father’s sister, for she is your father’s close relative.

13 “Do not have sexual relations with your mother’s sister, for she is your mother’s close relative.

14 “Do not violate your uncle, your father’s brother, by having sexual relations with his wife, for she is your aunt.

15 “Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law; she is your son’s wife, so you must not have sexual relations with her.

16 “Do not have sexual relations with your brother’s wife, for this would violate your brother.

17 “Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. And do not take her granddaughter, whether her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter, and have sexual relations with her. They are close relatives, and this would be a wicked act.

18 “While your wife is living, do not marry her sister and have sexual relations with her, for they would be rivals.

Have you considered the two man-making episodes in the Genesis? What if it was man first, then Adam. Surprisingly the septuagint uses Anthropos for the first episode, then Adam for the second.

So just consider it.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

The mathematics may be a bit daunting, but your reasoning doesn't hold. Yes, it is true that about 20% of everybody from about 1,000 years ago is the ancestor of nobody alive today -- their line died out. (For now, let's just talk about people of European descent.)

But the converse is much more interesting for you -- if you happen to be alive today! The remaining 80% of those living 1,000 years ago are all the ancestors of everyone alive today.

Let's do some numbers. Assume that the average length of a "generation" is about 25 years. It was shorter a long time ago, a little longer now, but that doesn't matter. Now, it is also true that everybody has 2 parents, 4 grandparents, 8 great-grandparents, 16 great-greats...and so forth. Now in 1,000 years, we could have had probably about 40 generations. Now that means that if you could follow every genealogical line, you would have had 1,099,511,627,776 (39-great) ancestors!!!!

Only a tiny fraction of that number has ever lived on this planet, and therefore it is absolutely certain that each and every one of us shares ancestry with somebody who was alive 1,000 years ago. So I can conclude (assuming that you are of European descent) that you and I are both related -- in several lines of descent -- to Holy Roman Emperor Charlemagne, because I know for certain that his line did not die out.

Not of European ancestry? Then it only requires another 2,400 years. Everyone alive today on this planet can trace their ancestry back to at least one individual human who lived 3,400 years ago. (Notice, that if a line died out, nobody alive today could trace their ancestry back to that individual, which is how I rule out your statement.)

Yes, I’ve often thought about that. Thanks for highlighting these facts.

 

[The Hammer]

Some time ago, a theory was floating around that everyone now living are descendants of one female from Africa. I don't know that they are still making that claim, however,

Mitochondrial Eve, is still a thing, as is Y-Chromosomal Adam.

 

[The Hammer]

Not quite how it works. There wasn’t just one that we are all related to or descended from. Each one of us has a “mitochondrial Eve” and “Y-chromosome Adam”. They could have lived 10s of thousands of years apart.

These slides can explain better than I can. This is my genetic lineage. My Eve lived about 25,000-30,000 years ago somewhere in the Middle/Near East. Her descendants migrated ultimately to the south of Italy. My Adam lived about 30,000 years ago somewhere around the Red Sea. His descendants also migrated west to the Mediterranean basin. I’m largely Sicilian (~90%), which is made up of that Middle/Near Eastern, Western Asian substrate, with some Northern European. Northwest Sicily, my ancestral origin, was heavily influenced by the Normans.

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Btw, the oft-cited claim of “everyone” being descended from Chinggis Khan is not entirely true (or entirely false). Those males who carry the same Y chromosome as the Great Khagan could be descended from a brother, cousin, uncle, who all descended from a common male ancestor. It would appear they are direct descendants of him, but they could only be male relatives.

Which DNA analysis did you use to come to these results? My Ancestry DNA is not as useful for mtEve.

 

[Jainarayan]

Which DNA analysis did you use to come to these results? My Ancestry DNA is not as useful for mtEve.

23andMe. You’re right. Ancestry.com is more about finding relatives and family relationships. I might do Ancestry also. A combination of services picks up different information. My sister did Ancestry.

 

[nPeace]

Are there still people in the 21st century that believe all humans are descendents from Adam and Eve, only two people?

Wouldn't that mean that when they had children, to have more children,,,
-the dad/mom had to sleep with their son/daughter,,,
-brother/sisters slept together,,,
-aunts/uncles slept with nephews/nieces
-etc.

If not can some logically explain how they populated the earth without doing any of that?
By the way, all of that is forbidden in the bible

Leviticus 18:8-18
8 “Do not have sexual relations with any of your father’s wives, for this would violate your father.

9 “Do not have sexual relations with your sister or half sister, whether she is your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born into your household or someone else’s.

10 “Do not have sexual relations with your granddaughter, whether she is your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter, for this would violate yourself.

11 “Do not have sexual relations with your stepsister, the daughter of any of your father’s wives, for she is your sister.

12 “Do not have sexual relations with your father’s sister, for she is your father’s close relative.

13 “Do not have sexual relations with your mother’s sister, for she is your mother’s close relative.

14 “Do not violate your uncle, your father’s brother, by having sexual relations with his wife, for she is your aunt.

15 “Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law; she is your son’s wife, so you must not have sexual relations with her.

16 “Do not have sexual relations with your brother’s wife, for this would violate your brother.

17 “Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. And do not take her granddaughter, whether her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter, and have sexual relations with her. They are close relatives, and this would be a wicked act.

18 “While your wife is living, do not marry her sister and have sexual relations with her, for they would be rivals.

It's all in the timing.
The laws regarding incest were some 2000 years after Adam.
Similarly, the law regarding monogamy was reinforced some 2000-n years after God allowing or tolerating polygamy.
Time does not affect God. He does things in his own time.

 

[We Never Know]

Mitochondrial Eve dna is dna from mitochondrial Eve, it may have come from her offspring but ultimately from her, same goes for Y chromosome adam. And as i said, they lived thousands of years apart.

One may be related to differnt sons or daughters of genetic adam and eve but ultimately we are all related to x eve and y adam. As i understand it x eve had 7 daughters with differnt fathers, this is also shown in dna.

I find this hard to accept. If evolution has shown us anything, it has shown us that populations evolve.
With that said even before modern humans there were groups evolving and breeding.
Unless there was a time, when only one female was/is to produce offspring like say wolves and parrie dogs do, then I find it hard to accept that we all can be traced back to one female.

Sorry my time is short. I read through many posts and decided to reply to this one.
Thanks evreryone for your reply's. I hope to be back on this weekend and to have more time to read and reply to more.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It's all in the timing.
The laws regarding incest were some 2000 years after Adam.
Similarly, the law regarding monogamy was reinforced some 2000-n years after God allowing or tolerating polygamy.
Time does not affect God. He does things in his own time.

Why the change? Any justification or just Lord's whim?

 

[gnostic]

Simple logic. Adam and Eve were created perfect. When they sinned they were still much closer to the perfection they were created with than their future offspring. There was no problem for their children to marry and have children. That is the only way humankind produced at that time.

By the time Moses lived genetic defects were already far worse along and it was wrong for relatives to intermarry and procreate with each other that is why God gave that mandate to the nation of Israel. And why it is stupid and wrong up to this day.

You do realise that the Lawgiver Moses’ parents were aunt and nephew to each other?

Jochebed being a daughter of Levi, Amram a grandson of Levi.

So is Moses a genetic defect?

 

[gnostic]

Not possible. Some lines of descent died out. My Y chromosome dies with me. But my nephew (my brother’s son) has two sons. I have a half brother who has a son. It’s entirely possible my paternal male cousin has a son. Now, if my nephews don’t have anymore sons, the line that was me, my father, my grandfather, great-grandfather, great-great-grandfather, etc. dies. If my grandfather had brothers who had sons who had sons, etc. then my Y-DNA continues.

The short answer is that it’s a branching tree. Some branches die, others become vines.

Ah, now I get it!

We’re all vegetables!

 

[Neuropteron]

Are there still people in the 21st century that believe all humans are descendents from Adam and Eve, only two people?

Wouldn't that mean that when they had children, to have more children,,,
-the dad/mom had to sleep with their son/daughter,,,
-brother/sisters slept together,,,
-aunts/uncles slept with nephews/nieces
-etc.

If not can some logically explain how they populated the earth without doing any of that?
By the way, all of that is forbidden in the bible

Leviticus 18:8-18
8 “Do not have sexual relations with any of your father’s wives, for this would violate your father.

9 “Do not have sexual relations with your sister or half sister, whether she is your father’s daughter or your mother’s daughter, whether she was born into your household or someone else’s.

10 “Do not have sexual relations with your granddaughter, whether she is your son’s daughter or your daughter’s daughter, for this would violate yourself.

11 “Do not have sexual relations with your stepsister, the daughter of any of your father’s wives, for she is your sister.

12 “Do not have sexual relations with your father’s sister, for she is your father’s close relative.

13 “Do not have sexual relations with your mother’s sister, for she is your mother’s close relative.

14 “Do not violate your uncle, your father’s brother, by having sexual relations with his wife, for she is your aunt.

15 “Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law; she is your son’s wife, so you must not have sexual relations with her.

16 “Do not have sexual relations with your brother’s wife, for this would violate your brother.

17 “Do not have sexual relations with both a woman and her daughter. And do not take her granddaughter, whether her son’s daughter or her daughter’s daughter, and have sexual relations with her. They are close relatives, and this would be a wicked act.

18 “While your wife is living, do not marry her sister and have sexual relations with her, for they would be rivals.

Hi,
With due respect, your making a mistake in applying the Mosaic law to Adam and Eve. That law came into effect many hundreds of years later and applied only to descendants of Abraham.
Adam and Eve only had one law, which they failed to follow.

I think it's important to accurately understand the scriptures if you want to convincingly question its veracity.

Cheers,

 

[Hockeycowboy]

There is also a genetic Adam, interistingly these two predecessors lives about 100,000 years apart.

Not necessarily.....

Genetic Adam and Eve did not live too far apart in time

 

[Jainarayan]

Ah, now I get it!

We’re all vegetables!

Most of the people in NJ anyway. They don’t call it the Garden State for nothing.

 

[Jainarayan]

Not necessarily.....

Genetic Adam and Eve did not live too far apart in time

From the article “In this case, evolutionary theory predicts that for any given man there is a high probability that his paternal line will eventually come to an end. All of his male descendants will then have inherited Y chromosomes from other men.” That is an impossibility. The Y chromosome is passed in a direct line from father to son. A man does not get his Y chromosome from anyone other than his father. That statement puts the whole article in question.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

From the article “In this case, evolutionary theory predicts that for any given man there is a high probability that his paternal line will eventually come to an end. All of his male descendants will then have inherited Y chromosomes from other men.” That is an impossibility. The Y chromosome is passed in a direct line from father to son. A man does not get his Y chromosome from anyone other than his father. That statement puts the whole article in question.

Yeah, I noticed that. I don’t know what the author meant by “other men.” Makes no sense, the way the entire sentence is worded.

But it’s from the highly-respected “Nature”, and provides references.

 

[Clara Tea]

The Human Family Tree: 10 Adams and 18 Eves (Published 2000)

According to this website, there were 10 Adams and 18 Eves (apparently the Adams had more fun).

Adam and Eve had three sons and no daughters. To have kids, Eve would have had to have been the mother.

However, some think that there were other people who were not in the Garden of Eden, who might have had kids.

Also, we know that Neanderthals had mated with humans, and up to about 6% of some human's DNA is Neanderthal. The Neanderthal male line no longer exists. The Neanderthal female line no longer exists, either. Could the Neanerthal be the giants mentioned in the bible? Seraphim?