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Do Pictures of Nude People Lead to Immoral Behavior?

DallasApple

Depends Upon My Mood..
It depends on what the nudes are doing in the picture..(then I can blame all my immoral behavior on it)...

All I know is...my painting of the "Fisherman and the Siren" in my bedroom forces me to think dirty things...(I LOVE that picture)

So I have to in general stay away from nudes..(pictures)...My mind goes in the gutter..

Love

Dallas
 

cardero

Citizen Mod
But nowadays, now that I know it's perfectly natural, I admit to it.
I don't know if I would consider masturbation "perfectly natural" or just natural but even if I did consider it to be Unnatural, I wouldn't designate it to the realm of "wrong" or "immoral".
 

a_student

Member
If there is any guilt associated with it (such as denial) then it must be immoral. If you started masturbating when you were young and had guilty feelings then it is immoral even if you think it's okay now. You probably think it's okay now because you've been doing it for so long. Any murderer will tell you that the first time was always the hardest. After awhile one becomes desensitized so much that this act that they once felt guilty about becomes "natural." Whether you do it or not has no bearing. You all want to defend it because you do it. Now that's natural. Most people look at nude pictures to masturbate. Why else would you? As far as art and all that goes, I don't think that's what we're talking about here. If there is an act that you are ashamed to talk about, then it is a shameful act. The fact that you can openly talk about it now only means you have trained yourself to accept this immoral act as moral.

I was taught that there is an easy way to tell if something is right or wrong. If it's right, that's pretty easy to tell (helping an elderly woman load her groceries into her car). If it's wrong that's pretty easy to tell (stealing). And if there is anything you are unsure of, then assume that's wrong too. The debate stems from trying to justify an immoral act. We all know to avoid the major sins but the little ones can trip us up as we try to rationalize why it is not wrong or immoral.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
If there is any guilt associated with it (such as denial) then it must be immoral. If you started masturbating when you were young and had guilty feelings then it is immoral even if you think it's okay now. You probably think it's okay now because you've been doing it for so long. Any murderer will tell you that the first time was always the hardest. After awhile one becomes desensitized so much that this act that they once felt guilty about becomes "natural." Whether you do it or not has no bearing. You all want to defend it because you do it. Now that's natural. Most people look at nude pictures to masturbate. Why else would you? As far as art and all that goes, I don't think that's what we're talking about here. If there is an act that you are ashamed to talk about, then it is a shameful act. The fact that you can openly talk about it now only means you have trained yourself to accept this immoral act as moral.

I was taught that there is an easy way to tell if something is right or wrong. If it's right, that's pretty easy to tell (helping an elderly woman load her groceries into her car). If it's wrong that's pretty easy to tell (stealing). And if there is anything you are unsure of, then assume that's wrong too. The debate stems from trying to justify an immoral act. We all know to avoid the major sins but the little ones can trip us up as we try to rationalize why it is not wrong or immoral.

That guilt is instilled in the young child's mind by religion/culture, which can make people feel guilty about things that are otherwise perfectly healthy and natural.
 

McBell

Admiral Obvious
If there is any guilt associated with it (such as denial) then it must be immoral. If you started masturbating when you were young and had guilty feelings then it is immoral even if you think it's okay now. You probably think it's okay now because you've been doing it for so long. Any murderer will tell you that the first time was always the hardest. After awhile one becomes desensitized so much that this act that they once felt guilty about becomes "natural." Whether you do it or not has no bearing. You all want to defend it because you do it. Now that's natural. Most people look at nude pictures to masturbate. Why else would you? As far as art and all that goes, I don't think that's what we're talking about here. If there is an act that you are ashamed to talk about, then it is a shameful act. The fact that you can openly talk about it now only means you have trained yourself to accept this immoral act as moral.

I was taught that there is an easy way to tell if something is right or wrong. If it's right, that's pretty easy to tell (helping an elderly woman load her groceries into her car). If it's wrong that's pretty easy to tell (stealing). And if there is anything you are unsure of, then assume that's wrong too. The debate stems from trying to justify an immoral act. We all know to avoid the major sins but the little ones can trip us up as we try to rationalize why it is not wrong or immoral.
Where do you get the idea that masturbation is immoral?
Even in your above example there has to be a source for the feelings of guilt.
Parents perhaps?
and why do they feel it is immoral?

Don't confuse guilt with embarrassment.
 

a_student

Member
Don't confuse guilt with embarrassment.

What's so embarrassing about it? Embarrassing is when you slip and fall. That's something you have no control over. Embarrassing is getting in front of a crowd of people with your fly unzipped. Again, not something you can control. We are talking about a conscious act that is knowingly performed. I wouldn't call that embarrassment, I would call that shame (a painful emotion caused by consciousness of guilt, shortcoming, or impropriety; Merriam-Webster dictionary). I unknowingly discovered masturbation when I was 10. It's not something anyone ever talked to me about so I don't think it was an embarrassing thing. It was something that I felt I should conceal and I felt that way naturally. Why would this act need to be concealed?

From just a religious standpoint then it is certainly immoral. Masturbation is a result of lustful thoughts. Isn't lust a deadly sin? In the Bible read Ephesians 5:3 "But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becomes saints" This verse doesn't name masturbation specifically but it would definitely fall into that category. Furthermore in Romans 14:23 it says "And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin." In other words if the act is not giving glory to G-d, then what is the point of it? Is masturbation something you feel embarrassed about before G-d? So tell me what is so G-dly about masturbating? Here, the Bible calls it sin. Also look at 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 "What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's." Here the reader is told that his body is not his own, but G-d's and it should be glorified.

In the Qur'an 23:5-7 "And those who guard their chastity (i.e. private parts, from illegal sexual acts). Except from their wives or (the captives and slaves) that their right hands possess, - for them, they are free from blame. But whoever seeks beyond that, then those are the transgressors." Masturbation would be classified, here, as an illegal sexual act. Many Muslim scholars, however see it as permissible ONLY as a deterrent to adultery, and a last resort. Even so, there is a level of shame/guilt associated with it under the most extreme circumstances.

If you are embarrassed or ashamed about an act, then that means there must be something wrong with it. And I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about YOU! A good test for whether something is immoral or not is whether you would be proud to tell others what you had just done. Again, do what you know is right, avoid what you know is wrong, and if you have to question it, it's probably wrong too. You are trying to justify something you know to be immoral deep down inside. Of course the issue in this thread is nude pictures. Yes looking at nude pictures is immoral. If someone walked in on you looking at some pornography what would you do? (hint the answer is in the answer)
 

tomspug

Absorbant
That guilt is instilled in the young child's mind by religion/culture, which can make people feel guilty about things that are otherwise perfectly healthy and natural.
You're right. Guilt doesn't exist until someone tells you its a bad thing. A child can kill someone and not feel guilty about it until they are wanted for murder.
 

McBell

Admiral Obvious
If you are embarrassed or ashamed about an act, then that means there must be something wrong with it. And I'm not talking about me, I'm talking about YOU! A good test for whether something is immoral or not is whether you would be proud to tell others what you had just done. Again, do what you know is right, avoid what you know is wrong, and if you have to question it, it's probably wrong too. You are trying to justify something you know to be immoral deep down inside. Of course the issue in this thread is nude pictures. Yes looking at nude pictures is immoral. If someone walked in on you looking at some pornography what would you do? (hint the answer is in the answer)
Interesting.
First off, you need to stop the preaching.
i have heard it all before and it is not allowed on this forum.

Is it your position that my having sex with my wife is immoral because it would be embarrassing for my mother to walk in during the act?

Seems your test is not the absolute you preach it to be.
 
A

angellous_evangellous

Guest
Yes looking at nude pictures is immoral. If someone walked in on you looking at some pornography what would you do? (hint the answer is in the answer)

Depends on who they are...

usually I just demand that they bring me a beer and a cigar...
 

a_student

Member
You're right. Guilt doesn't exist until someone tells you its a bad thing. A child can kill someone and not feel guilty about it until they are wanted for murder.

I disagree. If a child trips another child on the playground, they may apologize. Not because someone told them what they did was wrong, but because they can see the effects caused by their action. "Hmmm I made this other kid fall and hurt himself. I don't feel good about that." The child also wouldn't be indifferent to that either. You make human beings out to be heartless robots who have emotions drilled into them by society rather than the very souls that separate us from other animals.
 

a_student

Member
Interesting.
First off, you need to stop the preaching.
i have heard it all before and it is not allowed on this forum.

Is it your position that my having sex with my wife is immoral because it would be embarrassing for my mother to walk in during the act?

Seems your test is not the absolute you preach it to be.

First of all, I'm not preaching. I gave my answer, you questioned it, I clarified.

Secondly, having sex with your wife is a natural thing. That's not the issue here. That would be a good example of your embarrassment. Embarrassment usually involves another person witnessing the embarrassing act. If you masturbate and only you know about it, why is there a need to feel embarrassed? This is what I described as shame, not embarrassment. There is nothing shameful about having sex with your wife. It can be embarrassing to be seen or maybe even to talk about but there is no shame in it. 2 different words. Embarrassment. Shame. I only typed embarrassed before because that's the word you used. I think shame is far more descriptive in regards to masturbation.
 

The Voice of Reason

Doctor of Thinkology
You're right. Guilt doesn't exist until someone tells you its a bad thing. A child can kill someone and not feel guilty about it until they are wanted for murder.
There are adults that kill people and don't have any remorse about it whatsoever.

"Wanted" by the law has no impact whatsoever.
 

Riverwolf

Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
Premium Member
a_student, it seems you don't understand the human psyche very well, especially that of children.

Children don't know when they do something wrong unless they are told not to do it. If a two-year-old accidentally tripped another child, they wouldn't know what they did, so they'd have no remorse. But then an adult would sit them in a corner, and they would know something bad happened that involved them. It's the same thing as training a dog. (I'm not lowering humans to "dog" level, I'm heightening dogs to "human" level) Young children are naturally selfish. It's how they survive. We are adults who don't have to be selfish anymore, but at the same time, complete selflessness is dangerous, as it neglects one's own health and well-being.

Now, I'm sure we've all seen children walk around naked without any thought whatsoever. "And they were both naked, and not ashamed." (Gen 2:25) When children are being potty-trained, they are told that the "private parts" are to be hidden at all times. I myself didn't quite grasp this very well, and when I about three or four, I let my pants down before I went into the bathroom during a family get-together. My mom and the others laughed and told me that I had to wait until I was in the bathroom. For many months, I wondered "why?" (Just so we all are clear, I still don't really know "why") This notion of hiding the private parts stays until they grow up. Then, they hit puberty, and by that point they've already been struggling to be "normal." When they masturbate for the first time, they might ask whether or not what they're doing is "normal" and feel guilt. (mind you, not everybody wants to be normal; I myself, for one, felt guilt about masturbation because everyone else did it, and I didn't want to be like them. I've grown up since.) But once they realize that everybody, including many animals, masturbate, they no longer feel the guilt that they once associated with it.
 
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