Do rights come from God?

[McBell]

Those rights then which God and nature have established, and are therefore called natural rights, such as are life and liberty, need not the aid of human laws to be more effectually invested in every man than they are; neither do they receive any additional strength when declared by the municipal laws to be inviolable. On the contrary, no human legislature has power to abridge or destroy them, unless the owner shall himself commit some act that amounts to a forfeiture. Neither do divine or natural duties (such as, for instance, the worship of God, the maintenance of children, and the like) receive any stronger sanction from being also declared to be duties by the law of the land.

Blackstone, Introduction Section 2

Until such time as God starts enforcing the rights it gave, it is left up to humans to enforce them.
And when we mere mortal humans decide that a "God given right" is immoral (slavery) and stop enforcing it...

 

[Ebionite]

Until such time as God starts enforcing the rights it gave, it is left up to humans to enforce them.
And when we mere mortal humans decide that a "God given right" is immoral (slavery) and stop enforcing it...

Humans aren't relevant when it comes to natural rights. "invested in every man"

 

[McBell]

Humans aren't relevant when it comes to natural rights. "invested in every man"

Wrong.
Humans are the ones enforcing rights.
So they are the most relevant when it comes to rights.
ALL rights.

Even more relevant that all the deities that have allegedly declared rights.

 

[Rival]

Rights are human inventions that have no actual existence.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Those rights then which God and nature have established, and are therefore ...

Blackstone, Introduction Section 2

When an Ebionite quotes a Tory we can be pretty sure that its as credible as it can get.

 

[Quintessence]

Most gods that I'm familiar with have had a supernatural place in the cultures of Mesopotamia, Egypt, Greece, Rome and a brief overview of the Hindu and Shinto gods. The Great Spirit and the Rainbow Serpent are supernatural too.

Folks in modern Western culture are so indoctrinated into the idea of "gods must be supernatural" they then apply this filter to every theology they approach. Doesn't make it necessary or correct to do so. Wish I could say it surprises me how many folks just do not process that indigenous and polytheistic gods are nature, but... it doesn't.

What gods without powers do you have in mind? What is said to be the point of worshiping or placating them?

I don't understand what you're asking. Gods by definition - one of the very few points of agreement amongst all things deemed worthy of worship by cultures throughout history - are aspects of reality and the universe which are greater (aka, higher powers). A god without power is an oxymoron. I mean, Helius (aka, Sun) literally anchors our Gaea (aka, Earth) in space without which we wouldn't even be having this conversation. One worships and honors and give thanks to our greaters - that which we depend upon - because we aren't egotistical maniacs and arrogant ingrates? On a more practical level, because we understand there are consequences for our actions? Like, if you disobey Law as honored in your country you're gonna have a bad time?

 

[blü 2]

Folks in modern Western culture are so indoctrinated into the idea of "gods must be supernatural" they then apply this filter to every theology they approach. Doesn't make it necessary or correct to do so. Wish I could say it surprises me how many folks just do not process that indigenous and polytheistic gods are nature, but... it doesn't.

The only way gods are known to exist is as concepts, notions, things imagined in individual brains. The only way the supernatural ─ the realms of magic, where reality can be altered independently of the rules of reality ─ is known to exist is likewise as concepts, notions, things imagined in individual brains.

What exceptions, if any, do you have in mind?

I don't understand what you're asking. Gods by definition - one of the very few points of agreement amongst all things deemed worthy of worship by cultures throughout history - are aspects of reality and the universe which are greater (aka, higher powers).

They are deemed, imagined, asserted to be aspects of reality, but in my book reality is the world external to the self, which we know about through our senses, and no gods, no supernatural anything, can be found there. That's to say, as I see it, they're entirely imaginary. Believers appear to get round this problem by never looking at it. For example, no church I know of has a research foundation to try to determine how miracles are performed, in order that we can all perform them.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I've repeatedly heard the assertion that rights come from God. Do you think rights come from God? If not, then where do you think they come from, or how do we have them?

I am aware that I don't have a lot of background in western philosophy, but I do respect it. That being said I have a notion that rights derive from nature and in particular from the needs of individuals. For example I have a right to breath, because everybody needs to breath.

I think its beneficial that our laws do not deign to grant us our natural rights and views rights as coming from a power that is above the constitution and above the supreme court and all government authority. I don't like how the UN does it. The UN grants rights. If it can give you rights then it can take them without notice.

 

[Quintessence]

The only way gods are known to exist is as concepts, notions, things imagined in individual brains. The only way the supernatural ─ the realms of magic, where reality can be altered independently of the rules of reality ─ is known to exist is likewise as concepts, notions, things imagined in individual brains.

What exceptions, if any, do you have in mind?

Uh... you've lost me here. You are going to have to ask someone who believes the gods are supernatural. For someone who rejects that the gods are distinct from nature and the universe, what you are asking here just does not make much sense. I'll grant there are those who tell the tale that all reality (and thus the gods I worship) is a fabrication of their own minds, but... that... isn't really my thing. Sorry. The gods I worship are literally things like the land that provides all the food you eat. I don't fancy that as a fabrication of human minds and neither did our polytheist ancestors, probably.

They are deemed, imagined, asserted to be aspects of reality, but in my book reality is the world external to the self, which we know about through our senses, and no gods, no supernatural anything, can be found there. That's to say, as I see it, they're entirely imaginary. Believers appear to get round this problem by never looking at it. For example, no church I know of has a research foundation to try to determine how miracles are performed, in order that we can all perform them.

Yeah, um... okay, clearly talking past each other. I'm not the "believer" you're looking for, I guess?

 

[blü 2]

The gods I worship are literally things like the land that provides all the food you eat. I don't fancy that as a fabrication of human minds and neither did our polytheist ancestors, probably

Why would you worship eg the land, simply because you've evolved to eat plants and use plant products?

I can understand personifying the land to the extent of 'respecting' it, for example, but that's a figure of speech.

What am I missing?

 

[Aed-Maroc]

Rights are man-made.

Only Greatness comes from God and God created greatness (Human-beings).

And to Him we shall return.

 

[mangalavara]

I've repeatedly heard the assertion that rights come from God. Do you think rights come from God?

By ‘God,’ I assume that some people mean the deity of the Hebrew Bible. If that is the case, I would not want my rights to come from an angry god who favors one nation—that I’m not part of—above other nations.

For now, I think rights—the liberal kind—are rooted in good sense.

 

[Nakosis]

I've repeatedly heard the assertion that rights come from God. Do you think rights come from God? If not, then where do you think they come from, or how do we have them?

Rights come from folks believing we ought to have them and coming up with a method to enforce them.

Some try using the authority of God to enforce rights. This only work for as long as people believed in that authority.
I suppose belief in authority works in lieu of direct enforcement. However without belief in authority, direct enforcement is the ultimate recourse.

 

[Ebionite]

Humans are the ones enforcing rights.

Their human rights. The fictions that the state says that they possess.

 

[Ebionite]

When an Ebionite quotes a Tory we can be pretty sure that its as credible as it can get.

Ad homimem. For when your argument could not possibly suck any harder.

 

[McBell]

Their human rights. The fictions that the state says that they possess.

Then you agree there are no God given rights?

Because all rights that are enforced are enforced by humans.

If you think otherwise, present a case where a right was enforced, but not by a human.

 

[PureX]

I think rights come from the realization that the world does not exist to serve us. It will provide for us, but we have to respect it, and work with it, to gain that provision. And this is especially true of our relationship to each other.

 

[wellwisher]

I've repeatedly heard the assertion that rights come from God. Do you think rights come from God? If not, then where do you think they come from, or how do we have them?

Rights coming from God is connected to the ultimate conceptual foundation for the logic of rights.

Since the theoretical God concept, by definition, created the heaven and earth, as well as life and humans, then as the creator and owner of all, Rights created by God would be at the top of the food chain. These rights and principles, of human interaction with each other, and with nature, would be part of the integrating principles of human consciousness, that naturally extend from the laws of physical nature. This would imply that all rights created by humans, by default, would be lower on the food chain, inferior and cause natural problems. Rather than remain inferior, why not use the best?

God given rights, like God, would be eternal rights, that will always exist, at a higher level, than any second string man made rights. As such, if we used God given rights, humans would have no man made rights over each other. Rather each human, by virtue of their God given rights, would need to be treated with respect and dignity, like each one is a child of God, above all the self serving rights of humans.

The saying that "every man's home is his castle", is about each person being like a God appointed king of their own domain, who only reports to God and not to other humans. We are all precious in the eyes of God. But we are not all precious in the eyes of other humans. If we use the Rights of God, then and only then, will we treat and see each other as precious.

The logic stream is similar to using the infinity concept in math, which is always bigger than any man made number no matter how fancy it sounds; Divine Right card trumps fancy fad word games.

The two tiered justice system of the modern Democrat Party, is what happens when man made laws and rights are allowed to lead. Whereas, God given laws would treat everyone the same, in a fair, and even handed way. Both Biden and Trump would sit on the same trial for having classified documents and both will get the same verdict, not two verdicts of the same act. Manmade law and two tier justice divides the country, which show how inferior it is. It is not universal enough to work for all and also be fair and streamlined.

The concepts of free enterprise and a free market, are connected to God given rights. In the free market place one set of rules applies to all; better quality, price and innovation wins the day. It is similar to sports, with one set of rules, with game play based on merit, and not some clan criteria of man; two or more sets of rules with the best uniform the winner. Congress still allows insider trading for itself ,but not for all. They are the worse violators since their laws and their money allotments can decide which businesses rise and fall. Yet man made law does not see the fair path nor does it remove the path of cheaters.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

God given rights, like God, would be eternal rights, that will always exist, at a higher level, than any second string man made rights.

If a right can be created - and presumably erased - by God at will, how can you say that it will always exist?

How could a "God-given right" be a right at all? It would be like the days of the absolute authority of kings... IOW, with the commoners having no rights at all, only the hope that the ruler's whims would align with the commoners' interests.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Not sure as to rights but I sure as hell know where wrongs come from - like the delusional beliefs of the Taliban as to female rights.