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Do Scientists Have "Faith" in the Same Sense some Christians do?

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Thanks for confirming, by noting the basic assumptions.

Now, the many links you may read from, research from will give you sound science and then the unanswered questions will give you, "such and such are "THOUGHT" to have ........" "Such and such "COULD HAVE." Therein enters the opinion.

Take for instances with dinosaurs attempting to explain away some of their sheer size... one of the most prominent is that "gravity" was "thought" to have been not consistent, yet again a contradiction to an assumption.

A contradiction, assumption, and opinion all noted in just trying to "explain" how dinosaurs "could have" been that large.

Disagree completely. Links? Need citations. You will have to cite scientific journals that use this wording as 'opinion.' I read scientific journals all the time and the answer is no. Layman publication may use this type of conjecture, but that is not science.

Actually the evidence show that size of herbivores was most likely the result of survival against predators, and predators increased size was to take down the herbivores, This related to evidence in the fossil evidence over time that show an increase in size. An increase in body armor shows a similar trend over time.
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
I read, or maybe watched, somewhere, and it speculated that to the Greeks, the bones of mammoths and dinosaurs might have been known, but rearranged to become their titans (or other giants of other cultures). No hard evidence to confirm it, but interesting I thought.
The Chinese dragon was likely modeled after the pig and larger dinosaur bones.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
I know that many not dare go against the status quo of the scientific church community,

Sounds like you are referring to Church of Scientology. Can you give a reference to this institution you are referring to as the 'Scientific Church.'


but for those free in mind and free from conforming to anything... these are some decent ideas:

Top Ten Scientific Flaws In The Theory of Prehistoric Dinosaurs[/QUOTE]

John Watson is not a scientist. His ideas are not decent. They are embarrassing. This all so hooky.

Please cite scientific journals.
 

Profound Realization

Active Member
Disagree completely. Links? Need citations. You will have to cite scientific journals that use this wording as 'opinion.' I read scientific journals all the time and the answer is no. Layman publication may use this type of conjecture, but that is not science.

Actually the evidence show that size of herbivores was most likely the result of survival against predators, and predators increased size was to take down the herbivores, This related to evidence in the fossil evidence over time that show an increase in size. An increase in body armor shows a similar trend over time.

Which link(s) did you get your information from? "Most likely" is a "philosophical" opinion. There are also other opinions as well. Of course giant dinosaurs would have benefited from their size, because otherwise they wouldn't have been that large in the first place, a classic example of an evolutionary tautology. The end of the day that explains nothing.

Great example. First, we have the sound evidence of a few large bones, if this is sound in the first place... due to condition/shattering/etc. The rest is philosophical guesswork and opinions. Their size, age, appearance, characteristics, complexion, genetics, biochemistry, identification, etc. are all guesswork. Then, after this philosophical guesswork is complete, more philosophical guesswork pursues.
 
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Profound Realization

Active Member
Sounds like you are referring to Church of Scientology. Can you give a reference to this institution you are referring to as the 'Scientific Church.'


but for those free in mind and free from conforming to anything... these are some decent ideas:

Top Ten Scientific Flaws In The Theory of Prehistoric Dinosaurs


In this case, a body/community of believers in Dinosaur Orthodoxy.

If their philosophical opinions are questioned with other philosophical opinions, ego's don't take kindly in many cases. As you've just done with John Watson's philosophical ideas.
You gave your philosophical opinion, that they are embarrassing in your opinion. Someone in the Dinosaur Orthodox Church would respond precisely as you have done. Any idea that disagrees with or questions their own fundamental, philosophical ideas tends to be lashed out at.

And then you ask for scientific journals, from the Dinosaur Orthodox Church which only cite their philosophical opinions as well.

But, I get it and understand. I once had a grizzled ego too, where I believed my philosophical opinions were superior to others philosophical opinions, attempting to indirectly take their freedom of mind away to question. I once was fearful of what my family, friends, the world would think of me if I left/didn't share their same opinions/beliefs in the orthodoxies they did or dared questioned the self-perceived superior reputations.
 
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shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
In this case, a body/community of believers in Dinosaur Orthodoxy.

Sounds like your into the 'Flintstones.'

If their philosophical opinions are questioned with other philosophical opinions, ego's don't take kindly in many cases. As you've just done with John Watson's philosophical ideas.
You gave your philosophical opinion, that they are embarrassing in your opinion. Someone in the Dinosaur Orthodox Church would respond precisely as you have done. Any idea that disagrees with or questions their own fundamental, philosophical ideas tends to be lashed out at.

Bottom line John Watson is not scientist.

And then you ask for scientific journals, from the Dinosaur Orthodox Church which only cite their philosophical opinions as well.

The church attended by the 'Flintstones.'
 

McBell

Unbound
Actually that fish was not an ordinary fish as we see or know a fish or whale to be.

It had a precise agenda to accomplish, that no ordinary fish or whale could not do.

In the book of Jonah you will find the Lord prepared a great fish to swallow up Jonah.
Jonah 1:17

Therefore this great fish, was not a fish as what we know a fish or whale to be.

This great fish was designed ( created ) for certain purpose by the Lord. And will not be found no where on Earth since the time of Jonah.

This is why you can look the earth all over and will not find such a fish or whale like it.

It's use was for a one time event, and then afterwards it had no further use.

It's like the flood of Noah's, it too had a one time event, and then afterwards it too had no further use. This is why scientist will not find any trace of the flood of Noah's.

All we have is faith to believe what is Written That the flood of Noah's did in fact happen. There are those who choose to believe it did happen and there are those who choose it did not happen.

So the controversy continues.
Why did god lose interest in humans?
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Why did god lose interest in humans?


God did not lose interest in humans.

God is letting humans do their own thing. To see how far humans will go to destroy themselves.
God tried to get humans to do the right thing, but humans rebelled against God.

God will step in before humans
destroys themselves.

People Cry's why does God let these things happen. Because people even to day refuse God. People wants to do their own thing rather than listen to God.

Why do you suppose Christ Jesus said to do good to your neighbor. But yet people goes against their neighbors.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I read, or maybe watched, somewhere, and it speculated that to the Greeks, the bones of mammoths and dinosaurs might have been known, but rearranged to become their titans (or other giants of other cultures). No hard evidence to confirm it, but interesting I thought.
For some reason this reminds me of J.G. Ballard's short story The Drowned Giant, a remarkable piece of cold surrealism.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
A common enough criticism of various scientific explanations (especially the theory of evolution) is that it requires "as much or more faith" to accept them as it does to believe in a scriptural-based alternative to them (such as creationism).

This criticism is usually levied by Christians, and while "faith" in Christianity can mean more than one thing, it seems to me that the Christians who employ this particular criticism of the sciences generally tend to mean by "faith" "a staunchly held belief or trust in something in the absence of conclusive evidence for it". Hence, the notion that scientific explanations require as much or more faith to accept as religious explanations seems to boil down to a charge that scientific explanations require a staunchly held belief or trust in something in the absence of conclusive evidence for it.

As I see it, the problem with the criticism is at least three-fold. First, it utterly ignores the fact that most scientists do not "staunchly" believe in a scientific explanation (such as evolution), but rather only tentatively accept it as currently the best available explanation, and would be willing to discard it should a better explanation come about. Contrast this with the ideal of Christian faith as unshakeable. So, to equate the alleged "faith" of scientists with the faith of Christians would seem to be a mistake.

Second, the criticism again utterly ignores the fact that widely accepted scientific explanations tend to have an overwhelming weight of reasoning and evidence in favor of them. Contrast this with the generally underwhelming evidence for Christian scriptural-based explanations. To say that scientists have a Christian like faith in scientific explanations would be like saying that scientists blindly base their acceptance of such explanations on some kind of authoritative scripture -- which they do not, and which would actually contradict the very epistemic foundations of the sciences if they did.

Last, some people like to argue that the sciences are based on scientific axioms which are equivalent to "things taken on faith". Yet, scientists would most likely discard or modify axioms that conflicted with experimental observations, but people who take things on faith tend to value doing so steadfastly, even in the face of conflicting reasoning and evidence. Hence, there seems to be a distinction between how scientific axioms and things taken on faith are treated by their respective communities.

For those, and for other reasons, the criticism of some Christians that scientific explanations require as much or more faith as religious explanations seems to me shallow and simplistic.

Your thoughts?
Scientific predictions do better than religious prophecies. If science uses faith they are bettter at it.
 

McBell

Unbound
God did not lose interest in humans.

God is letting humans do their own thing. To see how far humans will go to destroy themselves.
God tried to get humans to do the right thing, but humans rebelled against God.

God will step in before humans
destroys themselves.

People Cry's why does God let these things happen. Because people even to day refuse God. People wants to do their own thing rather than listen to God.

Why do you suppose Christ Jesus said to do good to your neighbor. But yet people goes against their neighbors.
Ah, so the actual answer to my question is:
humans rebelled against God.​

Did not god know this before hand?
 

Faithofchristian

Well-Known Member
Ah, so god is not all knowing....


Look God can choose not to know things beforehand.

God gave free will to everyone.
Therefore free will came from God. That means that God also has free will to choose.
To know beforehand or not to know beforehand.

For some reason people thinks just because He's God, That God knows everything beforehand.

That takes away God's free will to choose also.

Just because he's God, does not mean that God can not choose. To know beforehand or not to know beforehand.
 
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McBell

Unbound
Look God can choose not to know things beforehand.

God gave free will to everyone.
Therefore free will came from God. That means that God also has free will to choose.
To know beforehand or not to know beforehand.
Sounds to me like you are making this up as you go
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
No God did not know this before hand, After God saw the wickedness of man, (Then) it grieved God that he made man.

Therefore God did not know beforehand.

In your concept of the Genesis God, God Created humanity with these faults. How could he not know if he is an Omnipotent God.
 

McBell

Unbound
So you believe just because he's God, that God automatically knows everything beforehand .

That's silly, God can choose not to know beforehand on things.
I believe no such thing.
Being in a predominately Christian area, I have heard more times than I can count that god is all knowing.
I find it interesting to hear from a theist that god is not all knowing.
 
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