Do the gospels report that Jesus liked his food and wine with nasty people, sometimes to excess?

[oldbadger]

What Jesus is saying is that when John the Baptist was preaching, people complained he was a crazy ascetic (locusts, wild honey, etc) but, now that Jesus is preaching, the self same people complain that he enjoys eating and drinking! Oy vey, you can't win, there's just no pleasing some folk.

How do you know that is what Jesus is saying?
Sure thing, that a man living out in the wastes, subsisting upon the sends of the seasons and the surges of the migrations could seem very strange to folks living in the regular community..... I think that you might think a loner's ways to be strange, you once mentioned that my long rowing trips in a boat painted light grey so that it would not attract any other vessels (thus sending them off course?) was in some way strange. Remember?
But John was not out in the wastes! He was in prison in goodness only knows what conditions, and a such a man as John, deprived of freedom and locked in a cage would 'go crazy'. So those people could have been right.

And they said that Jesus sat with sinners eating a drinking, sometimes to excess, and maybe they were right.

Jesus said himself that what goes in a person does not matter so much, and please don't tell me that he was only redacting oT food laws.

This is a light-hearted passage about the tittle-tattle associated with his ministry. There is nothing here to say, one way or the other, whether or not Jesus ever ate or drank to excess.

True! one way or the other,........ and so I'm interested in this, about Jesus.
I have a feeling that Jesus liked the people that he ate and drank with, he even took some of them close to him.
But Christians make a big point about how Jesus did eat/drink with 'sinners'. What so many of them don't remember is that every single person that Jesus ever ate or drank with..... was a sinner in Christian doctrine.

 

[oldbadger]

Dear oldbadger,

If you read above closely, what is said is that it does not matter that you act civil and only associate with civil-acting others, if you within yourself still plot and scheme and judge and use and con your fellow Man.

Humbly
Hermit

You might make mention of this to many Christians, HP. Those words by Jesus (and other things he said) are repeated by Christians to show that they don't have to obey the OT food restrictions.

I hope that Jesus enjoyed himself very much in the company of those people that he ate and drank with. I certainly would not become self righteous about alcohol or food because of folk's reports about him...... but some Christians have, it seems.

 

[Hermit Philosopher]

You might make mention of this to many Christians, HP. Those words by Jesus (and other things he said) are repeated by Christians to show that they don't have to obey the OT food restrictions.

I hope that Jesus enjoyed himself very much in the company of those people that he ate and drank with. I certainly would not become self righteous about alcohol or food because of folk's reports about him...... but some Christians have, it seems.

I do, when they ask …or when I witness people using scripture to injure others. It is a personal calling of mine to do so by clarifying meaning. But scripture is often misused …we could choose to see it as part of Man’s spiritual test.

Humbly
Hermit

 

[Dropship]

Whoa! Not all Christians think he was God, because he made it clear a number of times that he wasn't God.
For examp he said- “Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone" (Luke 18:19)

Jesus was and is good.
That passage is actually Jesus showing that His is God.

Sez you..
Here are some more verses where he says he's NOT God-
"Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)
"I say nothing of my own accord, I only say what my father tells me to say.." (John 12:49)
“Father, the hour has come....I am coming to you now" (John 17:13)

And God himself said - "This is my beloved son, listen to him" (Matt 17:5)

The ordinary people got it right..
"There is one mediator between God and men,- the man Jesus Christ" (1 Tim 2:5)

 

[firedragon]

Ha ha! If Jesus loved his meat and wine with 'bad' folks, then I like him a bit more for that.

According to the NT, other people called him a bandit. Do you believe he was a bandit according to the NT?

 

[Dropship]

Did you read my post?
Did you read where I wrote in my OP :-
But some Christians can be infuriated by the idea that their God might have got inebriated sometimes..

Do you think that Jesus did sit in bad company, eating and drinking to excess sometimes?

Depends what you mean by "bad company", for examp he told the snooty priests that prostitutes were entering the kingdom of God ahead of them..
He certainly associated with so-called "sinners" but never supped or drank with them to excess.
Here he rescues an adulteress from the mob-

 

[PruePhillip]

This isn't intended as a dig at Jesus, by the way.
The thought that he enjoyed his food and drink makes me feel good for him.
That he ate and drank with unpopular folks I don't mind at all.
But some Christians can be infuriated by the idea that their God might have got inebriated sometimes.

Here are some references for your scrutiny and comments:-

Mark {2:15} And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him. {2:16} And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?

Mark {7:15} There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which
come out of him, those are they that defile the man.


Matthew {11:16} But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, {11:17} And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented. {11:18} For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. {11:19} The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners.

Luke {7:32} They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We
have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept. {7:33} For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil. {7:34} The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

John {2:7} Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. {2:8} And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare [it. ]{2:9} When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew ....

There;s no excess. Christian doctine is to be 'moderate in all things.'

nb Jesus often ate with people who he did not consider to be his friends,
he ate with them because that was a part of his ministry.

 

[Brian2]

Hello..... the above was posted to another member.

But were they lying when they said that Jesus had his meat and wine in bad company, sometimes to excess? If God wants to eat (or drink) too much...does it matter?

I don't know how much Jesus drank or ate but believe that He did not sin.
Food and wine are gifts from God and Jesus respected His mother and made sure the guests at Canaan had plenty of wine.

 

[Lain]

I cannot see the connection to Deut, I just see what was being said.

So Jesus did NOT eat or drink to excess, and did NOT sit with very nasty people. Correct?

He sat with sinners for He Himself said "I have not come to call the righteous [that is those righteous in their own eyes] but sinners," and "those who are well have no need of a physician but those who are sick." Not to mention that practically all are sinners so by eating and drinking with any He would have done so from a theological perspective. But gluttony and drunkenness there is no reason to say that this was done.

 

[Brian2]

Sez you..

So Jesus was not good?

Here are some more verses where he says he's NOT God-
"Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)
"I say nothing of my own accord, I only say what my father tells me to say.." (John 12:49)
“Father, the hour has come....I am coming to you now" (John 17:13)

And God himself said - "This is my beloved son, listen to him" (Matt 17:5)

The ordinary people got it right..
"There is one mediator between God and men,- the man Jesus Christ" (1 Tim 2:5)

The Son became a man and left His Godly talents behind and lived as a man trusting in His Father. His Father became His God when Jesus became a man. (Ps 22:10) before that Jesus was not a servant of God but the Son who had and has the same nature/essence as His Father, as we have the same nature as our Father, a human nature.
So as a man Jesus did not know the day of Judgement.
The Son came as a servant and as the Son and servant of God Jesus obeyed His Father and God. So He waited to say what His Father told Him to say.
The Son came from God and went back to God. The Son and Father are not the same person, they however are one, meaning they are one thing, they are one God. The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father.
Jesus is the perfect mediator between God and man since His is both God and man.

 

[1213]

This isn't intended as a dig at Jesus, by the way.
The thought that he enjoyed his food and drink makes me feel good for him.
That he ate and drank with unpopular folks I don't mind at all.
But some Christians can be infuriated by the idea that their God might have got inebriated sometimes.

Here are some references for your scrutiny and comments:-

Mark {2:15} And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him. {2:16} And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?
....

I believe those people repented their wrong actions, were forgiven and didn't continue in the wrong path. That is why I think it is wrong to call them nasty people.

 

[oldbadger]

I do, when they ask …or when I witness people using scripture to injure others. It is a personal calling of mine to do so by clarifying meaning. But scripture is often misused …we could choose to see it as part of Man’s spiritual test.

Humbly
Hermit

Oh HP. Scripture, often misused?
And you are the one to clarify it's meaning?

The gospels have, hold and can hide their truths, HP. But you think you can see through it as clear as day?
It can get to the point where anybody who shows scripture in a new light could be injuring others, misusing scripture and being bad? Do you believe that?

On a different matter, are you a real hermit, living outside of the communities near you? Do you live separate from others? If so, what do those folks think of you?

 

[oldbadger]

I believe those people repented their wrong actions, were forgiven and didn't continue in the wrong path. That is why I think it is wrong to call them nasty people.

Well that's a start. I doubt that all those folks got up and followed Jesus 1213, maybe a few, and maybe one of two publicans (tax officers).

What do you think about those folks who said they thought the Baptist 'had a devil' ei a bit of a nut?

 

[oldbadger]

So Jesus was not good?

Here are some more verses where he says he's NOT God-
"Only God knows when Judgment Day will be, I don't know myself" (Mark 13:32)
"I say nothing of my own accord, I only say what my father tells me to say.." (John 12:49)
“Father, the hour has come....I am coming to you now" (John 17:13)

And God himself said - "This is my beloved son, listen to him" (Matt 17:5)

The ordinary people got it right..
"There is one mediator between God and men,- the man Jesus Christ" (1 Tim 2:5)

The Son became a man and left His Godly talents behind and lived as a man trusting in His Father. His Father became His God when Jesus became a man. (Ps 22:10) before that Jesus was not a servant of God but the Son who had and has the same nature/essence as His Father, as we have the same nature as our Father, a human nature.
So as a man Jesus did not know the day of Judgement.
The Son came as a servant and as the Son and servant of God Jesus obeyed His Father and God. So He waited to say what His Father told Him to say.
The Son came from God and went back to God. The Son and Father are not the same person, they however are one, meaning they are one thing, they are one God. The Father is in the Son and the Son is in the Father.
Jesus is the perfect mediator between God and man since His is both God and man.

Brian, you've misquoted me, friend. I didn't write that, or copy/paste it. It was written by another member.

I like the history about Jesus, very much, Brian.

 

[oldbadger]

He sat with sinners for He Himself said "I have not come to call the righteous [that is those righteous in their own eyes] but sinners," and "those who are well have no need of a physician but those who are sick." Not to mention that practically all are sinners so by eating and drinking with any He would have done so from a theological perspective.

Hello Lain.
Tell me, if Jesus had eaten and drank with you, would he have been eating with a sinner?

But gluttony and drunkenness there is no reason to say that this was done.

Yes there is, Lain. I personally don't mind the idea at all.

People said they thought John was a bit weird (had a devil) either when out in the wastes or after being caged by Antipas. I think mostly every person on this forum could have thought that..... who here would have known that he was sent from God, Lain? You?

What would you think of folks today who have left the world behind to live out in the wilds, hair grown, home made clothes, eating from nature's providence? A bit weird, maybe? You see those folks were not enemies of Baptist of Jesus, it's just what they thought, and the folks who saw Jesus eating and drinking with his friends maybe to excess were not enemies like Christians would tell, later. They were just people.

Jesus was alright, in every way, it's just folks who need to manipulate his memory who are sad, imo.

 

[oldbadger]

I don't know how much Jesus drank or ate but believe that He did not sin.
Food and wine are gifts from God and Jesus respected His mother and made sure the guests at Canaan had plenty of wine.

Exactly! Who cares how much Jesus ate or drank? Only self righteous folks who need to adjust his memory to taste.

Obviously, as a Deist and follower of the history of Jesus I don't think that he or any was 'sin free', after all he did do some violent and naughty things... I don't care.... I really like his memory.

 

[oldbadger]

There;s no excess. Christian doctine is to be 'moderate in all things.'

nb Jesus often ate with people who he did not consider to be his friends,
he ate with them because that was a part of his ministry.

Are you telling me that Jesus ate with people he did not like, Pru? Just doing his job?

Pru, if Jesus had eaten and drunk with you, would he have been reported as sitting with a sinner? How do you make out these folks to have been enemies or bad people? The folks who saw Jesus eating and drinking, sometimes to excess, they were not enemies, they just said what they saw, and does it really matter?

As for moderation in all things, there are some ridiculously rich Christians about (as well as others) and some very needy ones, so moderation is a rare attribute, you know.

Those who thought the Baprist was, say, weird, were not his enemies, either.

 

[oldbadger]

Depends what you mean by "bad company", for examp he told the snooty priests that prostitutes were entering the kingdom of God ahead of them..
He certainly associated with so-called "sinners" but never supped or drank with them to excess.
Here he rescues an adulteress from the mob-

Hello Dropship!
I didn't actually watch the film, but who is the White Eurasian guy in it? I hope that's not supposed to be Baptist or Jesus.

Of course he associated with sinners, Dropship. If he had taken food and drink with you would he have been eating/drinking with a sinner?

They said he did eat and drink to excess....... it's just what they saw. No enemies there.
They said that the Baptist was, say, weird, either before arrest or afterwards when caged. I expect that wild men living out in the wastes far from communities could look a weird. Why is this such a problem for Christians?

 

[oldbadger]

According to the NT, other people called him a bandit. Do you believe he was a bandit according to the NT?

Source, please?

 

[firedragon]

Source, please?

Matthew 26 has Jesus asking the question for them arresting him like a bandit. Exact verse I cannot remember. So does Mark 14 of course.