Do the gospels report that Jesus liked his food and wine with nasty people, sometimes to excess?

[Lain]

Hello Lain.
Tell me, if Jesus had eaten and drank with you, would he have been eating with a sinner?


Yes there is, Lain. I personally don't mind the idea at all.

People said they thought John was a bit weird (had a devil) either when out in the wastes or after being caged by Antipas. I think mostly every person on this forum could have thought that..... who here would have known that he was sent from God, Lain? You?

What would you think of folks today who have left the world behind to live out in the wilds, hair grown, home made clothes, eating from nature's providence? A bit weird, maybe? You see those folks were not enemies of Baptist of Jesus, it's just what they thought, and the folks who saw Jesus eating and drinking with his friends maybe to excess were not enemies like Christians would tell, later. They were just people.

Jesus was alright, in every way, it's just folks who need to manipulate his memory who are sad, imo.

If He ate and drank with me He would have been eating with a sinner, yes.

With St. John if I were not in the Church I am perhaps I would've thought it to be weird and not from God, but as people are living like that even now in the wilderness it's not that strange to me (people as in Saints of ours, living ones).

I am not sure how you can say they were not His enemies when they conspired to kill Him, got false witnesses to accuse Him, and it all ended up in His murder. Then following this they murdered His brother and His followers. Then later they cast them out of their communities in persecution, handing them over to the Romans for murder as they did with Jesus. If that is not an enemy I have no idea what is.

 

[oldbadger]

Matthew 26 has Jesus asking the question for them arresting him like a bandit. Exact verse I cannot remember. So does Mark 14 of course.

Jesus was arrested after the riot and picketing in the Temple. That really happened.

There are no accounts of Jesus being accused of banditry.

 

[firedragon]

Jesus was arrested after the riot and picketing in the Temple. That really happened.

There are no accounts of Jesus being accused of banditry.

Did you get the verse I am referring to? I cant understand what you are saying. This is very well known. They came with swords to arrest him like a bandit and this is in Mark, Matthew, and Luke, which means all three synoptics, and goes back to M. Listwn means bandit.

 

[oldbadger]

If He ate and drank with me He would have been eating with a sinner, yes.

Me too!

With St. John if I were not in the Church I am perhaps I would've thought it to be weird and not from God, but as people are living like that even now in the wilderness it's not that strange to me (people as in Saints of ours, living ones).

But whether people thought him weird or not, that did not make them enemies.

I am not sure how you can say they were not His enemies when they conspired to kill Him, got false witnesses to accuse Him, and it all ended up in His murder.

The Priests arrested and got him condemned, for sure, but it was just people who saw him eating drinking with sinners who reported that, not enemies.
Did they tell the truth at all? Was Jesus eating with sinners? True. Was he eating and drinking to excess....? Who cares! I don't mind that at all, but to Christians this could not be true. That's strange.

Then following this they murdered His brother and His followers. Then later they cast them out of their communities in persecution, handing them over to the Romans for murder as they did with Jesus. If that is not an enemy I have no idea what is.

Who did they hand over to the Romans? Paul? He went to Rome on his own wishes.
Cephas? He lived until twenty years+ after Jesus.

Do you think that the same folks followed him around doing nasty things, and it was they who reckoned he ate too much etc? I don't think so.

 

[oldbadger]

Did you get the verse I am referring to? I cant understand what you are saying. This is very well known. They came with swords to arrest him like a bandit and this is in Mark, Matthew, and Luke, which means all three synoptics, and goes back to M. Listwn means bandit.

Just copy paste your verses, like other members, and then we'll see.
Smashing up Ana's Bazaar and picketing the Temple Courts was a pretty severe offence or two, but that really happened.... not a lie, firedragon. Go ask some Christians.

 

[firedragon]

Just copy paste your verses, like other members, and then we'll see.
Smashing up Ana's Bazaar and picketing the Temple Courts was a pretty severe offence or two, but that really happened.... not a lie, firedragon. Go ask some Christians.

You think I go ask some alien? Lol. Mate. Learn to discuss as a decent human being and dont take people or things for granted like that.

I gave you the chapter, I gave you the greek word, I gave you the source as M which is one source in the Synoptic problem we call Mathean, so go look at the chapter I gave you, find that verse, and check the meaning of the Greek word I gave you, and "ask some christians" like Gunkel if you want.

Pretty simple. Just put some effort. I cant copy paste anything because at the moment I am using my phone.

 

[oldbadger]

You think I go ask some alien? Lol. Mate. Learn to discuss as a decent human being and dont take people or things for granted like that.

I gave you the chapter, I gave you the greek word, I gave you the source as M which is one source in the Synoptic problem we call Mathean, so go look at the chapter I gave you, find that verse, and check the meaning of the Greek word I gave you, and "ask some christians" like Gunkel if you want.

Pretty simple. Just put some effort. I cant copy paste anything because at the moment I am using my phone.

Jesus really did beat up the Temple money bazaar and picket the Temple Courts, firedragon. By any definition that's naughty. No lies there.

 

[firedragon]

Jesus really did beat up the Temple money bazaar and picket the Temple Courts, firedragon. By any definition that's naughty. No lies there.

So? Who said "lies"?

 

[Dropship]

..They said he did eat and drink to excess....... it's just what they saw. No enemies there.
They said that the Baptist was, say, weird, either before arrest or afterwards when caged. I expect that wild men living out in the wastes far from communities could look a weird. Why is this such a problem for Christians?

Of course the snooty priests would say Jesus was a glutton and a drunk, so don't get suckered in by their propaganda..
As for John, what problem, where?
Sure he hung in the wilderness chilling and recharging his spiritual batteries, but sometimes went in town to yell insults at the corrupt authorities like in the bottom pic where he's in action tearing into Herod and his floozy-

Jesus said "John is the greatest man ever to be born" (Matt 11:11)

 

[Lain]

Me too!


But whether people thought him weird or not, that did not make them enemies.


The Priests arrested and got him condemned, for sure, but it was just people who saw him eating drinking with sinners who reported that, not enemies.
Did they tell the truth at all? Was Jesus eating with sinners? True. Was he eating and drinking to excess....? Who cares! I don't mind that at all, but to Christians this could not be true. That's strange.


Who did they hand over to the Romans? Paul? He went to Rome on his own wishes.
Cephas? He lived until twenty years+ after Jesus.

Do you think that the same folks followed him around doing nasty things, and it was they who reckoned he ate too much etc? I don't think so.

The reason it matters to us and could not be true is because gluttony and drunkenness are both sins, and St. Paul speaks truth of the Lord saying "He was like us in all things but sin." Moreover it is impossible that God could do wrong so it is impossible that a Divine Person, even Incarnate, could do wrong. It would make Him false in every way as Lord and "Lamb without spot."

And I mean just the community of those people in general as enemies, the Pharisees and those who followed them, persecuting Jesus and those who followed Him, not necessarily the same people.

 

[oldbadger]

So? Who said "lies"?

In your first post you asked....
According to the NT, other people called him a bandit. Do you believe he was a bandit according to the NT?
..... and I am answering........ No lies there that he got arrested for beating up the Temple bazaar and picketing the Temple Courts. Which part of that is difficult for you?

 

[oldbadger]

The reason it matters to us and could not be true is because gluttony and drunkenness are both sins, and St. Paul speaks truth of the Lord saying "He was like us in all things but sin." Moreover it is impossible that God could do wrong so it is impossible that a Divine Person, even Incarnate, could do wrong. It would make Him false in every way as Lord and "Lamb without spot."

I think that's where Christianity has gone so wrong, imo...... eating and drinking too much are not in themselves even criminal offences. And those people who just spoke about what they had seen about the Baptist and Jesus, they HAD to be made enemies by the church. It begins to look like manipulation to me.

And I mean just the community of those people in general as enemies, the Pharisees and those who followed them, persecuting Jesus and those who followed Him, not necessarily the same people.

Why 'The Pharisees'? The Baptist and Jesus were both set against the corruption and greed of the Priesthood and the very wicked Temple scams which blede the working people of their hard earned money. A bit of a Progressive, I think?

And then Apostle John confused the whole thing by making the enemies of Jesus 'The Jews'! How bad is that?

 

[oldbadger]

Of course the snooty priests would say Jesus was a glutton and a drunk, so don't get suckered in by their propaganda..

Huh? Who said that it was the priests who were speaking about Jesus?
Have you read the accounts in the gospels?
Look: Let me show you..... it was THE PEOPLE who had made these observations.
Matthew {11:16} But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, {11:17} And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented. {11:18} For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. {11:19} The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans
and sinners.

Luke {7:32} They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept. {7:33} For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil. {7:34} The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

As for John, what problem, where?
Sure he hung in the wilderness chilling and recharging his spiritual batteries, but sometimes went in town to yell insults at the corrupt authorities like in the bottom pic where he's in action tearing into Herod and his floozy-

Ha ha! None at all....... what you have written explains why the people thought what they did. You've cracked it! But they were no enemies.
{11:18} For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil.

By the way, John did not go in to town to shout at Antipas. He got arrested by Antipas for causing such losses to TEmple takings and was taken to Perea Province, and it was there in prison that he spoke with Antipas and criticised his adultery.

 

[oldbadger]

View attachment 56332

View attachment 56333

Do you think that John the Baptist looked like that?
Those pics look like a White European who needs a haircut and bath.

 

[PruePhillip]

Are you telling me that Jesus ate with people he did not like, Pru? Just doing his job?

Pru, if Jesus had eaten and drunk with you, would he have been reported as sitting with a sinner? How do you make out these folks to have been enemies or bad people? The folks who saw Jesus eating and drinking, sometimes to excess, they were not enemies, they just said what they saw, and does it really matter?

As for moderation in all things, there are some ridiculously rich Christians about (as well as others) and some very needy ones, so moderation is a rare attribute, you know.

Those who thought the Baprist was, say, weird, were not his enemies, either.

Says somewhere in Psalms that the Messiah's friends will only be those who love and
obey him. There were plenty of times Jesus sat with his enemies, even washing the feet
of one who would betray him. In one place at a meal the Pharisees were 'vehement' in
trying to provoke him.

 

[Dropship]

Huh? Who said that it was the priests who were speaking about Jesus?.
...it was THE PEOPLE who had made these observations.

Of course the priests and their lackeys would badmouth JC..
If he was a glutton and a drunk, he'd never have pulled big audiences at his gigs-
"Large crowds from Galilee, the Ten Cities, Jerusalem, Judea and the region across the Jordan followed him" (Matt 4:25)
"And the common people heard him gladly" (Mark 12:37)

 

[Fallen Prophet]

This isn't intended as a dig at Jesus, by the way.
The thought that he enjoyed his food and drink makes me feel good for him.
That he ate and drank with unpopular folks I don't mind at all.
But some Christians can be infuriated by the idea that their God might have got inebriated sometimes.

Here are some references for your scrutiny and comments:-

Mark {2:15} And it came to pass, that, as Jesus sat at meat in his house, many publicans and sinners sat also together with Jesus and his disciples: for there were many, and they followed him. {2:16} And when the scribes and Pharisees saw him eat with publicans and sinners, they said unto his disciples, How is it that he eateth and drinketh with publicans and sinners?

Mark {7:15} There is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which
come out of him, those are they that defile the man.


Matthew {11:16} But whereunto shall I liken this generation? It is like unto children sitting in the markets, and calling unto their fellows, {11:17} And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented. {11:18} For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, He hath a devil. {11:19} The Son of man came eating and drinking, and they say, Behold a man gluttonous, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners.

Luke {7:32} They are like unto children sitting in the marketplace, and calling one to another, and saying, We
have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned to you, and ye have not wept. {7:33} For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil. {7:34} The Son of man is come eating and drinking; and ye say, Behold a gluttonous man, and a winebibber, a friend of publicans and sinners!

John {2:7} Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim. {2:8} And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare [it. ]{2:9} When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and knew not whence it was: (but the servants which drew the water knew ....

I don't believe that the Lord Jesus Christ ever drank until He was inebriated - that practice was condemned by the prophets.

However - drinking alcohol was not prohibited by the Law of Moses and I believe the Lord often ate and drank with His disciples and others.

Breaking bread is one of the best ways to meet new people, grow closer to your friends and honor special occasion.

 

[firedragon]

In your first post you asked....
According to the NT, other people called him a bandit. Do you believe he was a bandit according to the NT?
..... and I am answering........ No lies there that he got arrested for beating up the Temple bazaar and picketing the Temple Courts. Which part of that is difficult for you?

Ah. You didnt do the simple research.

 

[oldbadger]

Ah. You didnt do the simple research.

Now you have a nice day, firedragon. Don't overdo anything.

 

[oldbadger]

I don't believe that the Lord Jesus Christ ever drank until He was inebriated - that practice was condemned by the prophets.

However - drinking alcohol was not prohibited by the Law of Moses and I believe the Lord often ate and drank with His disciples and others.

Breaking bread is one of the best ways to meet new people, grow closer to your friends and honor special occasion.

I acknowledge your belief about the Lord Jesus Christ, FP.
I believe that Jesus didn't pay much attention to all those previous prophets, and I think he really enjoyed eating and drinking with his friends those taxmen and sinners all. If he was a winebbibber as claimed by witnesses then I personally wouldn't think any the worse of him.

And I believe that the Baptist may well have seemed strange to folks who lived within the community..... I think that is exactly what would happen today. So I will believe what the bible says about all this. If any people want to pick and choose from the verses then that is their right.