Do the Jews, Christians and Muslims worship the same God....?

[J2hapydna]

In the text, the term Yehudi is used 76 times to refer to someone from the tribe or nation of Yehudah. Are you trying to combine it with the idea of conversion?
Yisr'eili appears 5 times, 4 in Leviticus to refer to a woman who was part of the Children of Israel and once in Sam. 2 to refer to a man who is of the children of Israel.

Yes in reference to the Kenites. In your opinion, is this term Yehudi ever specifically used to describe a person of non Israelite patrilineal ancestry in the Bible? Thanks

 

[rosends]

Yes in reference to the Kenites. In your opinion, is this term Yehudi ever specifically used to describe a person of non Israelite patrilineal ancestry in the Bible? Thanks

When you say "non-patrilineal ancestry" it seems that you are using that as the sole determiner of membership in the nation and the people, ignoring conversion and matrilineal descent. Is that your position? If so, I'm not sure what to discuss as you are looking for something which is not exhaustive in understanding the composition of the nation.

In terms of the uses of the word, I don't know. I would have to go through each of the 76 instances and see what is being referred to in the text. Do you have a case with which I should start?

 

[J2hapydna]

When you say "non-patrilineal ancestry" it seems that you are using that as the sole determiner of membership in the nation and the people, ignoring conversion and matrilineal descent. Is that your position?

If Yehudi had meant a nationality then what do you think was the term used to describe someone who belonged to the tribe of Judah before the kingdom was formed? For example there were terms such as Israelite, Levite, Arronite and Benjaminite to describe those who descended from those tribes. Thanks

 

[J2hapydna]

When you say "non-patrilineal ancestry" it seems that you are using that as the sole determiner of membership in the nation and the people, ignoring conversion and matrilineal descent. Is that your position?

If Yehudi had meant a nationality only then what do you think was the term used to describe someone who belonged to the tribe of Judah before the kingdom was formed? For example there were terms such as Israelite, Levite, Aaronite and Benjaminite to describe those who descended from those tribes. Thanks

 

[rosends]

If Yehudi had meant a nationality only then what do you think was the term used to describe someone who belonged to the tribe of Judah before the kingdom was formed? For example there were terms such as Israelite, Levite, Aaronite and Benjaminite to describe those who descended from those tribes. Thanks

The term Levite is usually used to refer to members of a subset of the tribe, not members of the tribe as a whole -- it distinguished between the Levi and the Kohen families, both from the overall tribe. Specific families were known by the name of the man (Kehati, Merari). The word "Aharoni" (my best guess as to your "Aaronite") never appears. Other similar constructions (Yemini, Reuveini...) are all about tribal membership as defined by family lineage (in the same way Kehati means "from the family of Kehat", Reuveini means "from the family of Reuven"). Zecharia uses "Yehudi" to mean a member of the nation but wrote in Babylon, later on. There is no reference that I can find which uses "Yehudi" to mean a member of the tribe of Judah (earlier uses refer to a specific person).

So I'm not exactly sure what you are looking for or if it actually exists.

 

[J2hapydna]

The term Levite is usually used to refer to members of a subset of the tribe, not members of the tribe as a whole -- it distinguished between the Levi and the Kohen families, both from the overall tribe. Specific families were known by the name of the man (Kehati, Merari). The word "Aharoni" (my best guess as to your "Aaronite") never appears. Other similar constructions (Yemini, Reuveini...) are all about tribal membership as defined by family lineage (in the same way Kehati means "from the family of Kehat", Reuveini means "from the family of Reuven"). Zecharia uses "Yehudi" to mean a member of the nation but wrote in Babylon, later on. There is no reference that I can find which uses "Yehudi" to mean a member of the tribe of Judah (earlier uses refer to a specific person).

So I'm not exactly sure what you are looking for or if it actually exists.

Thanks for sharing your insight and view

 

[RESOLUTION]

The twelve tribes of Israel are the descendants of the 12 sons of Jacob. To be an Israelite you had to be a descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Most importantly God chose Sarah to bear the Son of his Covenant hence Isaac and his descendants are the descendants of Gods promises;. Elizabeth were descendants of Aaron and Moses.
Jesus was born of the tribe of Judah and a descendant of David,
The line of the Jews comes down through the woman. A Jew must be born of a Jewess to be a Jew. The fathers line does not count. Just for info.

 

[J2hapydna]

The twelve tribes of Israel are the descendants of the 12 sons of Jacob. To be an Israelite you had to be a descendant of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Most importantly God chose Sarah to bear the Son of his Covenant hence Isaac and his descendants are the descendants of Gods promises;. Elizabeth were descendants of Aaron and Moses.
Jesus was born of the tribe of Judah and a descendant of David,
The line of the Jews comes down through the woman. A Jew must be born of a Jewess to be a Jew. The fathers line does not count. Just for info.

You may want to check. As far as I know, Jewish religious identity passes thru the mother for four generations. However the Israelite tribal identity is only carried thru the father. Consequently, even if Mary had the required lineage thru king Solomon and subsequent kings, Jesus wouldn't be acceptable to conservative and Orthodox Jews as the genetic son of God

As far as Muhammad the prophet (MP) is concerned, Jews don't have a problem with gentiles having prophets. What they care about is how this prophet behaves. In that context, they find the prophet described in the Orthodox Sharia problematic. Would they find the one fo llowed by Najashi described in 3:199, 28:48-50 and 5:48 equally unacceptable? I don't think so

 

[Flankerl]

You may want to check. As far as I know, Jewish religious identity passes thru the mother for four generations. However the Israelite tribal identity is only carried thru the father. Consequently, even if Mary had the required lineage thru king Solomon and subsequent kings, Jesus wouldn't be acceptable to conservative and Orthodox Jews as the genetic son of God

lol

 

[rosends]

You may want to check. As far as I know, Jewish religious identity passes thru the mother for four generations.

What? YOU may want to check...

In that context, they find the prophet described in the Orthodox Sharia.

actually, we have nothing to do with Islamic law so we don't find anything, or anyone in it.

 

[J2hapydna]

What? YOU may want to check...

Can you please elaborate?

 

[J2hapydna]

actually, we have nothing to do with Islamic law so we don't find anything, or anyone in it.

Quite right, it has nothing to do with Jews and Christians

 

[J2hapydna]

Can you please comment on why some rabbis thought it was okay for Jews to say their prayers in a masjid but not a church ?

 

[rosends]

Can you please comment on why some rabbis thought it was okay for Jews to say their prayers in a masjid but not a church ?

According to certain authorities, there is nothing inherently idolatrous about Islam so a building dedicated to Muslim prayer is not contraindicated by Jewish law according to those people. In the absence of a proper synagogue, an Islamic equivalent could suffice.

 

[rosends]

Can you please elaborate?

Judaism is matrilineal. Where did you get the 4 generations thing?

 

[SethZaddik]

And is theologically speaking Christianity and Islam sects of Judaism?

I hope I am posting this in the correct forum. Recently, during the course of a debate elsewhere these two propositions have been asserted as factual statements:

1. Jews, Christians and Muslims worship the same God
2. Theologically, Christianity and Islam are sects of Judaism

​

I am interested in the views of others, especially Jews, Christians and Muslims on whether they agree with either one or both of the propositions, and if not why not?

Everyone knows that these three religions have the same God, sure, you might find a fundies saying that Allah is a moon god because some idiot wrote a 15 page book of lies and misinformation, but most people are smarter than that.

If Abraham is the theological founder of the three religions that also share similar stories and the exact same Prophets PBUT, only two kinds of people deny the fact that Allah is God, Elohim/Yahweh.

1. Religous biggoted who don't want to admit the facts and are biased against other religions. Typically it is from the fundamental camp you will hear the most absurd lies.

2. The uneducated, gullible people who have been told a lie and believe it.

Al ilah is from where Allah comes.

The ilah in Al ilah is the Arabic form of the Hebrew El, Eloah, and it's myriad variants.

Prior to Islam Arabs still worshipped Al ilah, Allah, but believed like the ancient Canaanites that El/Illu had children.

They become united under Allah and the pagan Kaaba was purged of idols and dedicated to the God of Abraham.

And we all know who that is.

 

[SethZaddik]

According to certain authorities, there is nothing inherently idolatrous about Islam so a building dedicated to Muslim prayer is not contraindicated by Jewish law according to those people. In the absence of a proper synagogue, an Islamic equivalent could suffice.

You don't need authorities to tell you that. That is a fact, Idolatry is anathema to Islam.

There were many times when Jews and Muslims shared places of worship too, and the Jews flourished under Islam like never before since at least Hyrcanus.

And Muslims and Christians also at times worshipped together.

Many Jews and Christians converted to Islam also and there are Jewish Muslims today.

 

[SethZaddik]

Islam, Christianity (non-mainstream), and Judaism worship a creator.

They don't worship the same god because each religion's god characteristics that define god are different.

They are all abrahamic religions but the fact that each are different tells me that even though they all believe in a creator, their perspective of the creator are so different how can one say a Christian worships the Muslim Allah when Allah in Islam belief has X regulations and practices (say pray five times) when the god of Christianity doesn't have that. Jews don't recognize Christ yet the Christian god says he sent Christ to save the gentiles.

They don't. They all worship a creator, though.

They worship the SAME Creator, God, Allah or Elohim.

Al ilah is the God or God.

Ilah comes from the Semitic El, Eloha, and it's myriad variants and is the Arabic form.

Different religions yes, different God, no.

Jesus PBUH has the same God as Mohammed PBUH.

The only difference is Jesus is the Son of God in Christianity and nothing in Judaism.

Those minor differences don't change God or mean we have different God's.

That is a fact, not opinion. Anyone can think whatever they want, but it can easily be proven false if you think they are different God's.

And they don't have different characteristics either, many Torah stories are discussed in the Qur'an and it is the God of Moses, not a different God, the God of Abraham PBUT.

That doesn't make sense at all. How could the God of Abraham have three different personalities in three different religions and still be the God of Abraham?

Which is an undisputable fact that Abraham had the same God as all three religions have today.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

They worship the SAME Creator, God, Allah or Elohim.

Al ilah is the God or God.

Ilah comes from the Semitic El, Eloha, and it's myriad variants and is the Arabic form.

Different religions yes, different God, no.

Jesus PBUH has the same God as Mohammed PBUH.

The only difference is Jesus is the Son of God in Christianity and nothing in Judaism.

Those minor differences don't change God or mean we have different God's.

That is a fact, not opinion. Anyone can think whatever they want, but it can easily be proven false if you think they are different God's.

And they don't have different characteristics either, many Torah stories are discussed in the Qur'an and it is the God of Moses, not a different God, the God of Abraham PBUT.

That doesn't make sense at all. How could the God of Abraham have three different personalities in three different religions and still be the God of Abraham?

Which is an undisputable fact that Abraham had the same God as all three religions have today.

If they worshiped the same creator, that same creator would give the same rules to all people. He wouldn't tell Christians they have to get to him through christ, Muslims to pray five times a day, and then tell Jews they are his chosen people.

I know you all believe in a creator but the fact your creator tells you different ways to practice and different things about himself (say having a son) says each of these religions either believe in a different creator or the creator is giving each group of people conflicting teachings based on where you all live geographically.

 

[J2hapydna]

Judaism is matrilineal. Where did you get the 4 generations thing?

If it were originally matrilineal then wouldn't Jacob and Esau both be Jewish since Rebecca would have been Jewish?