Do Voters Share the Blame for Trump?

[Cooky]

I wonder if Obamaphones secured a second term. If so, it would show just how dumb people really are.

...Probably not though, since we have electoral colleges. But it might have gained him the popular vote.

 

[Shad]

Personally when I matured some more and became a believer that America had certain global responsibilities to our friends. And in the case of the terrorists, they attacked us directly. They started it. That crossed a line to me but apparently not to Trump.

Just another Vietnam where the political leadership and public do not have the resolve to use tactics required to end ISIS and the like.

And apparently many on the right who were pro-intervention have now swapped sides as well.

Or people are sick of twenty years of failure

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

If you want a moral leadership, go to Church.

right. The same church that systematically hides abuse of children? And no, it's not just confined to the catholic church.

Worse: the bible, which most churches use, is an immoral book.

So no. Your advice is poor.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I think you just want a president who helps force left wing "values" into law.

...And you want to try and make sure that happens next time.

As opposed to the current self-admitted rapist? Who only wants to lower taxes for the very richest of the rich? Who is a known criminal.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Do you see no successes?
Even his big tax increase on wealthier homeowners?

You misspelled "tax decrease" here.

 

[Father Heathen]

If you want a moral leadership, go to Church.

Churches are hardly examples of actual morality..you know; honor, honesty, integrity, ethics...things that are also essential leadership qualities?
And it's not just ethical leadership that's important, but also competent leadership. Trump isn't fit to operate a fry vat, much less serve as POTUS. It's astounding how so many have taken such pride in having extremely low standards, and it's dragging this nation down. It's pathetic.

 

[Revoltingest]

You misspelled "tax decrease" here.

Oh, really?
You haven't noticed blue state Dems complaining about their
much higher income taxes due to loss of deductions, eh.
So....
How do you think taxation relative to real estate has changed?

 

[Father Heathen]

With Obama having served two years and HRC a candidate for POTUS, though she isn't able to pass the background for highest security clearance in order to enter the office, one wonders where the bar was in the first place.

Voters share in the success of over 2 years of Trump keeping his promises. The biggest surprise was Trump did what other presidents promised solely for the votes; moved the U.S embassy in Israel to Jerusalem.
After U.S embassy move to Jerusalem more countries follow its lead - May 2018

I think what we Republican Trump voters may not realize is when we read the ravenous broken record, beating dead horses, whine Liberals make over two years after a free election put the peoples choice in office is, those critics are telling us they prefer the other one.

Think back to what HRC was at the time she hoped to get your country. When she had betrayed it to the fullest , and our people, when she was entrusted to lesser offices of power.
And for women voters, you can't really want HRC if you are truly a feminist. Because HRC is not one. She's a fake feminist because claiming to be feminist gets her Liberal Feminist's votes.

She's a capitalist, a narcissist, a wino, as she admits in her book where she blames everyone but herself for losing the election, and interestingly doesn't blame Trump either. And she's a misanthrope.

What exactly does Hillary have to do with Trump's character, conduct, and performance?

 

[Father Heathen]

I want a president who is a slave for America. Not someone who lectures me and passes laws on what I need to do.

How is that not what republicans do when it comes to LGBT rights, reproductive rights, cannabis legalization, 'blue laws', etc? The right has a terrible record when it comes to liberty.

 

[Father Heathen]

I don't want some yahoo pushing his/her/its sense of fricken morality, period.

Yet you cheerlead for the party that pushes the evangelical agenda...

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Oh, really?
You haven't noticed blue state Dems complaining about their
much higher income taxes due to loss of deductions, eh.
So....
How do you think taxation relative to real estate has changed?

It's gone down for the wealthiest of the wealthy, whereas it's gone up for the middle class and lower class.

Also, due to the careful manipulations of the RePugs' "tax reform"? Most middle and lower income have had to pay considerably higher state taxes, too.

Only tЯump's wealthy owners have seen any benefit from his draconian policies. And, seeing as how, by a huge majority, all the RePug/CONservatives politicos are among the top wealthiest class?

This was all according to their plan...

 

[Father Heathen]

At what point did anti-war liberals become pro -war interventionists?

Around the same time pro-war conservatives became non-interventionists. Both sides tend to flip-flop on an issue depending on who's at the helm. Liberal and conservative alike are guilty of such hypocrisy.

 

[Revoltingest]

It's gone down for the wealthiest of the wealthy, whereas it's gone up for the middle class and lower class.

Also, due to the careful manipulations of the RePugs' "tax reform"? Most middle and lower income have had to pay considerably higher state taxes, too.

Only tЯump's wealthy owners have seen any benefit from his draconian policies. And, seeing as how, by a huge majority, all the RePug/CONservatives politicos are among the top wealthiest class?

This was all according to their plan...

The loss of primary residence deductions over $10K/yr is
a tax increase for the wealthier ones, & only for them.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

The loss of primary residence deductions over $10K/yr is
a tax increase for the wealthier ones, & only for them.

Chicken feed to that crowd. Less than the cost of the salary of the guy who buffs out their limos...

Less than what they pay their security people that monitor their properties. Less than they pay for the upkeep on their vehicle fleets....

Less than the fees they pay to their various club memberships..

But 10k a year? Is 1/2 the income of the lowest income brackets... and would have been a significant benefit...

 

[Revoltingest]

Chicken feed to that crowd. Less than the cost of the salary of the guy who buffs out their limos...

Less than what they pay their security people that monitor their properties. Less than they pay for the upkeep on their vehicle fleets....

Less than the fees they pay to their various club memberships..

But 10k a year? Is 1/2 the income of the lowest income brackets... and would have been a significant benefit...

I don't think you're looking at this the way I am.
Let's say you have a house with $50K/year property taxes.
And your mortgage loan has $50K/year in interest.
$50K -$10K + $50K -$10K = $80K of deductions lost.
This would mean a tax increase on the order of $25K/yr.
And there are other deductions lost which affect only
the landed gentry.

 

[Rough Beast Sloucher]

I don't think you're looking at this the way I am.
Let's say you have a house with $50K/year property taxes.
And your mortgage loan has $50K/year in interest.
$50K -$10K + $50K -$10K = $80K of deductions lost.
This would mean a tax increase on the order of $25K/yr.
And there are other deductions lost which affect only
the landed gentry.

There were already limits to allowable Federal deductions in the higher income brackets. Anyone with $50K/year in mortgage payments and the same sum in property taxes probably did not get to use much of that as deductions to begin with. That is, the tax changes concerning deductions meant little or nothing to them. The real killer was not allowing state and local income taxes as deductions. It is exactly the more liberal states that have the higher state and local taxes, and the increased federal standard deduction would often not make up for that. The biggest impact would typically be on the young professional who has not yet established strong roots in the state and is able to move elsewhere to end up with more money. Whether this was intentional or not, it would amount to the liberal states having less tax revenue to support their liberal policies. Things are often not what they seem.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I don't think you're looking at this the way I am.
Let's say you have a house with $50K/year property taxes.
And your mortgage loan has $50K/year in interest.
$50K -$10K + $50K -$10K = $80K of deductions lost.
This would mean a tax increase on the order of $25K/yr.
And there are other deductions lost which affect only
the landed gentry.

Chicken feed. Less than the fees they pay to their various "clubs".

 

[Revoltingest]

There were already limits to allowable Federal deductions in the higher income brackets. Anyone with $50K/year in mortgage payments and the same sum in property taxes probably did not get to use much of that as deductions to begin with. That is, the tax changes concerning deductions meant little or nothing to them. The real killer was not allowing state and local income taxes as deductions. It is exactly the more liberal states that have the higher state and local taxes, and the increased federal standard deduction would often not make up for that. The biggest impact would typically be on the young professional who has not yet established strong roots in the state and is able to move elsewhere to end up with more money. Whether this was intentional or not, it would amount to the liberal states having less tax revenue to support their liberal policies. Things are often not what they seem.

If the changes I cited didn't mean much, then I wonder why Democrats
are so noisily carping about the injustice of their tax increases?
Ref....
How Republicans are punishing blue states
They wanted taxes raised on the wealthy...but some other wealthy, eh.

What's really going on here is that it serves Democrats to portray tax reform
solely as "tax cuts for the wealthy". But the reality is something else.
Btw, what's happened to federal tax revenue since the changes in Dec 2017?

 

[Revoltingest]

Chicken feed. Less than the fees they pay to their various "clubs".

I've no argument against such a quantified rebuttal.

 

[Cooky]

How is that not what republicans do when it comes to LGBT rights, reproductive rights, cannabis legalization, 'blue laws', etc? The right has a terrible record when it comes to liberty.

Same with the left.
They Want To Use 'Hate Speech Laws' To Destroy Freedom Of Speech In America

But it's not actually left vs. right... It's those who are either unaware or don't care that they're imposing their own morals or "values" onto others.

We need to make a conscious effort as Americans to stop doing this IMO.