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Do We Need a Better Definitive Words For Soul Vs Self?

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
That's correct. But nothing I am saying is vague or meaningless. It has very clear meaning. When I hear someone say these sorts of things about what I am saying, I hear someone who is probably too lazy or afraid to apply themselves to penetrate what is being said and blaming me for it to avoid in their own minds looking stupid either to themselves or others. :)

Let me share a little true story of many years ago, way back when I was working at a convenience store while putting myself through school. This one girl I was working with complained to me, "Why do you always have to use such big words to say things." I paused a bit confused by the complaint as I talked like I talked with her the same way I did all of my friends and none of them had any problem following me. I answered her, "Because some words covey more subtle and nuanced meaning than simply pointing and grunting, 'mmmm, good!.... mmmmm, want'!... mmmm, happy!' Having a vocabulary of more than 500 words is a good thing." She got angry at me and punched me hard in the arm. :) Ditto here.
Hehe. I get that a lot too. It's difficult hiding the fact that you have a larger vocabulary than the average garden gnome. I have to laugh though because one of my bosses nicknamed me "Cereb". Puzzled and not getting the joke, he explained that so much of what I said was so "cerebral" in that the listener had to actually think to understand what I was babbling on about. And yes, I'm now quite used to folks suddenly laughing as their brains distill some previous comment during a chat. It's all very entertaining.

Part of the problem for the listener is that I usually wrap an underlying idea in humorous packaging that cloaks my real intent until one digests what I'm getting at. I remember one time, one of my technicians was not having a good day and I chirped something to him as he walked by my desk. He stopped, looked over and said, "I don't have time to figure out what that is supposed to mean." and stomped off. I just giggled. Awhile later he came back with a big smile and said something like, "That was very funny and true." (It was some quip about what he was going through that day.) Then we went outside for a quick smoke.

When we learn to speak additional languages, we realize how longer words make things harder to translate... “If you can't explain it to a six year old, you don't understand it yourself.” ― Albert Einstein :innocent:
That is one of the things that I am actually quite proud of, in that I can take fairly complex ideas and make them intelligible to a given target audience. I will note that RF has been quite beneficial in honing this skill as I don't get too much feedback from the squirrels, passing dear and roving raccoons.
 

wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
But when they respond like a six year old calling me a big stupid, or something.... why should I?
Because an evolved soul recognizes that everyone is a child at different stages of development.... It is only the ego speaking, when we've got to throw something back; other than unconditional love. :innocent:
Didn't we already have clearer and more detailed concepts for the soul from ancient Egyptian religion?
Maybe, and it is possible we had this advanced knowledge globally; then after the flood, much of it has been lost, with ancient religions recapturing parts of what we already knew. ;)
recognize the subtle uses of words.
What do you think to this analysis of Our Dynamics? o_O
 

EtuMalku

Abn Iblis ابن إبليس
Maybe, and it is possible we had this advanced knowledge globally; then after the flood, much of it has been lost, with ancient religions recapturing parts of what we already knew. ;)
What flood was that, the fake biblical one or the actual Mesopotamian one?
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Because an evolved soul recognizes that everyone is a child at different stages of development.... It is only the ego speaking, when we've got to throw something back; other than unconditional love. :innocent:
To throw something back, yes. To not waste your time on those who are not willing to play nice, be they mature or immature, well, that can be understood both as not enabling them, and self-preservation for your energies to be more wisely spent, etc. Indeed recognizing everyone is a different stages, and to have patience with them, tailor how you speak to them in order to communicate, etc, is a sign of maturity and wisdom. But being a doormat for abuse, is not.

There is what I would term the "near enemy" of this unconditional love, and it's called being a doormat. People imagine it is unconditional love to never say no, whereas in reality it is the sign of an underdeveloped ego; more specifically a problem that happens in healthy ego-development. I've seen it in others many times. People who praise those who "never think of themselves and constantly do for others". It's instead the near enemy for them because it masquerades as mature love, whereas in reality it's an act of trying to have others love you because of a lack of true self-love and self-acceptance. Unconditional love can only come from a healthy ego, which first unconditionally loves, and accepts one's own self.

It's ironic that the way to this sort of love comes through loving yourself first. The way "beyond the ego" is through the ego. The way to genuine love of others, is love of self. Don't you feel the need to defend those you love against violations of respect to them? Why exclude yourself then from the list of those you should protect and preserve? Again, there is a difference between acting out of self-respect and self-preservation, and acting out of retaliation for a bruised ego, calling the other offensive names, and the like. The insightful soul, can see itself and know the difference.

What do you think to this analysis of Our Dynamics? o_O
I'm not sure I follow your map in its uses of => and ^. It's not clear to me the linkages.
 
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wizanda

One Accepts All Religious Texts
Premium Member
I'm not sure I follow your map in its uses of => and ^
The => means it interlinks within, and the ^ means it comes from the previous level, the brackets mean it is contained within layers. ;)
Unconditional love can only come from a healthy ego, which first unconditionally loves, and accepts one's own self.
This is why posted our dynamic's, as not sure the ego is only our inner/outer reflection with the outside world... It's a projection created by our self image.

Within my own NDE realized that the outer levels of Heaven (Oneness), had all encompassed unconditional love...

That unconditional love is a dimension of reality, that can transcend any level of consciousness, and is interwoven into reality.

Though i agree with what you've said more or less, think the wording can be refined...

When we accept our soul is universal, and thus become one with all, then we're open to unconditional love.

Agree we shouldn't be used as a doormat; yet in a world full of hubris ego, it solves nothing to make more of it. :heart:
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The => means it interlinks within, and the ^ means it comes from the previous level, the brackets mean it is contained within layers. ;)
I'll have to process that a little more, but off the top of my head the model I tend to prefer which seems counter-intuitive to most, is than rather than following the great chain of being in a hierarchical structure, I tend to view these things as parallel to each other in greater and lesser degrees of depth and sophistication. For instance, Spirit is not the top, but rather runs alongside, all the way up, and all the way down. I think I tend to go more with the bodies or sheaths as well. Rather than being a ladder, it's more of a nested hierarchy with Spirit equally present at each stage. The only thing that changes is the level of conscious awareness we have of Consciousness itself, which is equally present at all levels. Now, lest I start getting really vague here, I stop there. :)

This is why posted our dynamic's, as not sure the ego is only our inner/outer reflection with the outside world... It's a projection created by our self image.
Of course the ego is not the only set of eyes we perceive the world. That's why our subconscious and unconscious mind is always sending information up to us, which we scarcely are able to understand while we're so busy indulging in our active thoughts and ideas as if they truly can figure out reality. When we shut up long enough to listen, we hear what our mind's perceptions are picking up all the time, from gross to subtle to causal. I'd love to go into some depth here, but again will refrain.

But I like what you say about the ego is a projection. What it is is simply a model of ourselves we construct and look at when we ask the question "who am I?". It's a metaphor, actually. It is an "as if" this is me statement, a representation, a pointing seeing truth hidden in patterns. When we strip away that mask we wear, the question of "Who am I?", becomes one which leads you down the path of Enlightenment. It begins by saying, "If I'm looking at all of that, then who is it looking?". And back you go, striping away layer, after layer, after layer of these projections. And what you are left with is just the one seeing, the Seer. Just simple Formless Awareness.

Within my own NDE realized that the outer levels of Heaven (Oneness), had all encompassed unconditional love...

That unconditional love is a dimension of reality, that can transcend any level of consciousness, and is interwoven into reality.
It is the Source of reality. It is that Emptiness, that is not "other" to reality. It's the paper which all reality is drawn upon, the seamless cloth which all patterns that constitute our reality are embroidered upon, and so forth. A long list of metaphors could be used to attempt to describe it.

Though i agree with what you've said more or less, think the wording can be refined...
A word about NDEs. I would advise a certain degree of caution in literalizing what is experienced as if what you experience, how it manifested itself to you, defines what it is. An NDE, in most descriptions of them are subtle-level experiences. Seeing a deity, seeing light, tasting unconditional love embracing you, etc. All of that is valid, however, the subtle level is really "form", manifesting, or expressing 'formlessness" beyond them. How these things manifest are a combination of the truly Transcendent, coupled with our own symbolisms from our psyche conditioned by many contributing factors, certainly including culture. It "manifests" in ways the what is above and before the subtle can be represented in our minds. The Christian will see the Christ, the Buddhist a thousand-armed Avalokiteshvara, the Hindu Krishna or some other form. It is not that those forms are the actuality itself. They "represent" the Infinite, which has no form itself, that Emptiness, Godhead, Brahman, and so forth.

So I'd be careful in imagining, "I saw this, therefore this is what is real". It's actually not. It goes far beyond that form, even if that form is one of the highest forms we can touch before the Infinite itself. I often say "God is the Face of the Infinite". Any subtle level manifestation is what our mind's see before they drop away and there is that Infinite Ocean that is within all that arises, the subtle, the gross, waking, dreaming, deep sleep, and so forth. There is a saying from Meister Eckhart I think captures this perfectly. "I pray God to make me free of God, for [His] unconditioned Being is above God and all distinctions." There is truth in the subtle, but to make it literal is to miss the point, mistaking the finger pointing at the moon with the Moon itself.

When we accept our soul is universal, and thus become one with all, then we're open to unconditional love.
To me, when we move beyond the soul, then we are everything. We are Emptiness. Soul to me, is subtle-level reality.

Agree we shouldn't be used as a doormat; yet in a world full of hubris ego, it solves nothing to make more of it. :heart:
The funny thing is, being a doormat is actually the ego trying to find love through not having people upset with you for calling out their bad behaviors. It's the terribly weak and unhealthy ego. And that's the other thing, for someone to say the ego is "bad", is dead wrong. That's why I dislike how we in our culture hear "We must get rid of the ego". It suggests it's a bad thing, whereas in reality it is a healthy and necessary thing. But we have to nurture and mature it. We have to grown beyond the self-centered ego, to the cosmic-centered ego.
 
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