Do you agree with what the Book of Mormon Teaches?

[Pegg]

But hey, like I said if you are ready to quit, I will with sadness accept your decision to quit highlighting your disagreements with the Book of Mormon. Maybe one of the other Jehovah's Witnesses on here will be up for the job....

yep, perhaps. But this subject is closed for me.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

yep, perhaps. But this subject is closed for me.

Okay.... Thank you for participating as long as you did...
I will miss your comments...

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Looking for a replacement for Pegg, anyone up for it????

 

[JayJayDee]

Looking for a replacement for Pegg, anyone up for it????

Sorry I can't actually access the site except on my andriod so I am a little hamstrung at the moment. Admin is working on finding the source of the problem but even when I come back I am not sure that I will have anything more to say. I have already compared Mormon notes with Katzpur in a one on one debate, and there was not really anything achieved except for a presentation of our very opposing views. I am hoping that readers can see the huge holes in Mormon teachings.

The BOM is in contradiction to the Bible as are other Smith inspired writings proffered as scripture. The scriptures are complete, there was no need for additions, especially those that are in conflict with the original.

Don't know if there is anything to add really.

 

[Domenic]

No I am not a Catholic. I am of no religion. I believe in God, his son our Lord Jesus, and the Bible.
　
Section 1-5
The man is telling his son the story of Adam to his son. How Adam disobeyed God, and ate of the tree of knowledge of God and bad. Adam was put out of the garden, and an angel was put on guard to keep Adam out.
The story is from Genesis.
The section of salvation is when God is speaking to Satan, and saying he, Satan would burse Jesus in the heel, and Jesus would burse Satan in the head.
The only part I do not agree with is Number 4. That is not in the Bible.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

No I am not a Catholic. I am of no religion. I believe in God, his son our Lord Jesus, and the Bible.
　
Section 1-5
The man is telling his son the story of Adam to his son. How Adam disobeyed God, and ate of the tree of knowledge of God and bad. Adam was put out of the garden, and an angel was put on guard to keep Adam out.
The story is from Genesis.
The section of salvation is when God is speaking to Satan, and saying he, Satan would burse Jesus in the heel, and Jesus would burse Satan in the head.
The only part I do not agree with is Number 4. That is not in the Bible.

Thank you for participating
If you don't mind, what part of number 4 do you disagree with?

"4 And thus we see, that there was a time granted unto man to repent, yea, a probationary time, a time to repent and serve God."

Do you not believe that God permitted Adam and Eve, as well as all mankind time to repent and choose to serve God?
If not why do you believe God did not kill them on the spot the moment Adam and Eve partook of the forbidden fruit? What was the point of keeping them alive?

It may not be in the Bible, but that does not mean that it isn't true. Many things are not in the Bible that are true. I really don't remember studying much math, microbiology, or computer science in the Bible, but that does not mean that such teachings are false.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Sorry I can't actually access the site except on my andriod so I am a little hamstrung at the moment. Admin is working on finding the source of the problem but even when I come back I am not sure that I will have anything more to say. I have already compared Mormon notes with Katzpur in a one on one debate, and there was not really anything achieved except for a presentation of our very opposing views. I am hoping that readers can see the huge holes in Mormon teachings.

The BOM is in contradiction to the Bible as are other Smith inspired writings proffered as scripture. The scriptures are complete, there was no need for additions, especially those that are in conflict with the original.

Don't know if there is anything to add really.

If you really believe what you say then you should have no problem in pointing out all sorts of false teachings in the passage of my opening post. Something you are very much invited to try and do whenever you can get this site working again.

 

[Domenic]

Thank you for participating
If you don't mind, what part of number 4 do you disagree with?



Do you not believe that God permitted Adam and Eve, as well as all mankind time to repent and choose to serve God?
If not why do you believe God did not kill them on the spot the moment Adam and Eve partook of the forbidden fruit? What was the point of keeping them alive?

It may not be in the Bible, but that does not mean that it isn't true. Many things are not in the Bible that are true. I really don't remember studying much math, microbiology, or computer science in the Bible, but that does not mean that such teachings are false.

I disagree with all of #4. It is not a part of the Bible. The Mormon’s say, “The book of Mormon is the back half of the Bible. Put the two together, and they make one book.
Read Rev 22: 18-20
It was not a repent issue. Adam and Eve injected into the unborn human race, a seed from Satan. I will tell you what that seed was later. This is why we die.
Before they sinned, God warned them, they would die in that day. A day with God is 1,000 years. Adam lived for 930 years.
The reason God did not kill them on the spot, the human family (unborn) would never have been.
All things of God are in the Bible. The Bible is the book of Life. Not math, ships, or trains.

 

[Domenic]

You are Mormon...what is the purpose of this thread?

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

You are Mormon...what is the purpose of this thread?

The purpose of this thread is for me to learn more about my own beliefs and to learn about the beliefs of others. I just recently finished another thread like this one with Pegg on a different Chapter in the Book of Mormon and found it very enlightening and entertaining.

I found 6 major disagreements with her on that Chapter and learned quite a few things in discussing these disagreements both about what I believe myself and what Pegg believed. It was fun.

"Major Disagreements

- 1) Pegg believed God will one day cause Satan to cease to exist
- My reply, How can someone cease to exist and still be tormented day and night for ever and ever as Revelation 21:10 states
2) Pegg believed, If Satan will one day cease to exist then all opposition will cease to exist.
- My replyIf all opposition will cease to exist does God plan on taking away the agency of man?
3) Pegg believed, the tree of life in the garden of Eden was a figure of speech
- My reply, If the tree of life was a figure of speech signifying living in God’s presence, why did God put cheribims in the east of Eden instead of surrounding Eden. Were they guarding a single spot in Eden or were they guarding all of Eden?
4) Pegg believed, Adam and Eve already knew good and evil before they fell, this is why Eve recited the commandment to Satan.
My reply, Can someone recite a commandment and yet not have an active conscience? My 2 year old daughter knows not to draw on her hands and feet, and dogs know it is bad to pee on the carpet and bad to bark at other dogs.
5) Pegg believed, If Adam and Eve could have remained in the garden they could have had children.
6) Pegg believed It was never a part God’s intent for Adam and Eve to fall.
My reply, God knows all things from beginning to end. If he knew long before Christ’s birth that the people would sin and crucify Christ, with that I. know that he knew Adam and Eve were going to partake of the forbidden fruit. God could have chosen someone else, even Christ and someone else to be the first man and woman on earth, but he didn’t he chose Adam and Eve. God does not make mistakes and he is impossible to surprise."

If someone happens to convert in the analysis process, it is just an added perk.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

I disagree with all of #4.
It was not a repent issue. Adam and Eve injected into the unborn human race, a seed from Satan. I will tell you what that seed was later. This is why we die.

So you believe God did not intend for Adam and Eve and all of their children to repent?

Before they sinned, God warned them, they would die in that day. A day with God is 1,000 years. Adam lived for 930 years.
The reason God did not kill them on the spot, the human family (unborn) would never have been.

I agree they lived almost 1,000 years, A.K.A. a day to God.
But what do you believe kept God from killing them on the spot and creating another couple (Anna and Steve) to take the place of Adam and Eve?

I also think back to my conversation with Pegg where I mentioned, "God knows all things from beginning to end. If he knew long before Christ’s birth that the people would sin and crucify Christ, with that I. know that he knew Adam and Eve were going to partake of the forbidden fruit. God could have chosen someone else, even Christ and someone else to be the first man and woman on earth, but he didn’t he chose Adam and Eve. God does not make mistakes and he is impossible to surprise."

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

I disagree with all of #4. It is not a part of the Bible. The Mormon’s say, “The book of Mormon is the back half of the Bible. Put the two together, and they make one book.
Read Rev 22: 18-20
It was not a repent issue. Adam and Eve injected into the unborn human race, a seed from Satan. I will tell you what that seed was later. This is why we die.
Before they sinned, God warned them, they would die in that day. A day with God is 1,000 years. Adam lived for 930 years.
The reason God did not kill them on the spot, the human family (unborn) would never have been.
All things of God are in the Bible. The Bible is the book of Life. Not math, ships, or trains.

It is interesting how the Bible was not written in chronological order. John actually wrote the Book of Revelation before he wrote the Book John, so technically John was adding to the Bible.

It is also interesting to note that the Bible was complied a couple hundred years after the writers had written their accounts. The belief that the Bible is all there is is certainly putting an awful lot of trust in the Nicean Creed (The council set up by Constantine to determine what is and isn't scripture).

There are actually quite a few books of missing scripture that Christ and many other Biblical prophets quoted.

"The so-called lost books of the Bible are those documents that are mentioned in the Bible in such a way that it is evident they were considered authentic and valuable but that are not found in the Bible today. Sometimes called missing scripture, they consist of at least the following: book of the Wars of the Lord (Num. 21:14); book of Jasher (Josh. 10:13; 2 Sam. 1:18); book of the acts of Solomon (1 Kgs. 11:41); book of Samuel the seer (1 Chr. 29:29); book of Gad the seer (1 Chr. 29:29); book of Nathan the prophet (1 Chr. 29:29; 2 Chr. 9:29); prophecy of Ahijah (2 Chr. 9:29); visions of Iddo the seer (2 Chr. 9:29; 12:15; 13:22); book of Shemaiah (2 Chr. 12:15); book of Jehu (2 Chr. 20:34); sayings of the seers (2 Chr. 33:19); an epistle of Paul to the Corinthians, earlier than our present 1 Corinthians (1 Cor. 5:9); possibly an earlier epistle to the Ephesians (Eph. 3:3); an epistle to the Church at Laodicea (Col. 4:16); and some prophecies of Enoch, known to Jude (Jude 1:14). To these rather clear references to inspired writings other than our current Bible may be added another list that has allusions to writings that may or may not be contained within our present text but may perhaps be known by a different title; for example, the book of the covenant (Ex. 24:7), which may or may not be included in the current book of Exodus; the manner of the kingdom, written by Samuel (1 Sam. 10:25); the rest of the acts of Uzziah written by Isaiah (2 Chr. 26:22).

The foregoing items attest to the fact that our present Bible does not contain all of the word of the Lord that He gave to His people in former times and remind us that the Bible, in its present form, is rather incomplete.

Matthew’s reference to a prophecy that Jesus would be a Nazarene (2:23) is interesting when it is considered that our present Old Testament seems to have no statement as such. There is a possibility, however, that Matthew alluded to Isa. 11:1, which prophesies of the Messiah as a Branch from the root of Jesse, the father of David. The Hebrew word for branch in this case is netzer, the source word of Nazarene and Nazareth. Additional references to the Branch as the Savior and Messiah are found in Jer. 23:5; 33:15; Zech. 3:8; 6:12; these use a synonymous Hebrew word for branch, tzemakh."

I believe anytime God speaks it is scripture. And so if God were to speak to me and tell me that I need to get my family out of town because a tornado is going to hit, that is my personal scripture and I will be able to share my experience how God saved me and my family with my descendants for generations.

 

[Domenic]

As to rule 8 this is my poinion


Yaddoe, what you are doing, most men fear to even think about. You are seeking the truth, whatever it be.
There are really very few things in the Bible a person need know to have a good standing with God. The difficult part of learning the truth, is finding what is not from God, and throwing those teachings into the fire.
As a boy I nine, I would skip school so I could go and sit alone in a church, and feel close to God. I have a certain feeling toward your writing on this forum. I feel truth is in you.
Stepping across the line, facing God solo is the biggest step a person can take.
That one move is filled with fear, and doubt. It is a normal human feeling to be joined with other humans in a belief of God. A sense of support. We do not want to be wrong. What will God think? All the warnings religions gives. “This is the true religion. If you leave us, where will you go?” etc, etc.
Go to God, beg him to tell you the truth. Ask him to guide your steps. He knows when those seeking his truth are truly seeking the right path to him.
Here is a list I have used for many years. With an open heart I tell you, I have always wanted to find a religion that was from God. Below is a list of false doctrines I have proved out using the Bible.
Below are nine things on my list. If a religion has one or more of these, I believe them to be false.
Going to Heaven………………………………......False.
Going to a Hell of fire………………………….….False.
God, and Jesus are the same person…………….…False.
The tree in the Garden was not symbolic…….……False.
Cain, and Able are Adams children………………..False.
Jesus died on the cross……………………………..False.
Why Jesus had to die…………………………….…False.
Jesus died for all of our sins………………………..False.
The soul leave the body when the soul dies………..False.
Our God does not have one lie in his mouth. If a religion is teaching one, or more things on the above list, that religion is not from our God.
I am willing to spend as long as you want proving these things are false.
If one thing on this list is true, I will join any religion you pick for me in a heart beat.
You may use comments from other members. I will only reply to your comments.
Domenic.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

As to rule 8 this is my poinion


Yaddoe, what you are doing, most men fear to even think about. You are seeking the truth, whatever it be.
There are really very few things in the Bible a person need know to have a good standing with God. The difficult part of learning the truth, is finding what is not from God, and throwing those teachings into the fire.
As a boy I nine, I would skip school so I could go and sit alone in a church, and feel close to God. I have a certain feeling toward your writing on this forum. I feel truth is in you.
Stepping across the line, facing God solo is the biggest step a person can take.
That one move is filled with fear, and doubt. It is a normal human feeling to be joined with other humans in a belief of God. A sense of support. We do not want to be wrong. What will God think? All the warnings religions gives. “This is the true religion. If you leave us, where will you go?” etc, etc.
Go to God, beg him to tell you the truth. Ask him to guide your steps. He knows when those seeking his truth are truly seeking the right path to him.
Here is a list I have used for many years. With an open heart I tell you, I have always wanted to find a religion that was from God. Below is a list of false doctrines I have proved out using the Bible.
Below are nine things on my list. If a religion has one or more of these, I believe them to be false.
Going to Heaven………………………………......False.
Going to a Hell of fire………………………….….False.
God, and Jesus are the same person…………….…False.
The tree in the Garden was not symbolic…….……False.
Cain, and Able are Adams children………………..False.
Jesus died on the cross……………………………..False.
Why Jesus had to die…………………………….…False.
Jesus died for all of our sins………………………..False.
The soul leave the body when the soul dies………..False.
Our God does not have one lie in his mouth. If a religion is teaching one, or more things on the above list, that religion is not from our God.
I am willing to spend as long as you want proving these things are false.
If one thing on this list is true, I will join any religion you pick for me in a heart beat.
You may use comments from other members. I will only reply to your comments.
Domenic.

Wow, to have your own, articles of faith if I might call them that, shows me you have spent some time really diving into your scriptures. That is excellent. Thank you for sharing them with me. I feel we could have and hopefully will get to have quite a few great conversations on each of your points.

I have noticed that 6 of your nine points are really strong Jehovah's Witness beliefs, the other 3 might be but I am unsure. Pretty strong similarities for "being of no religion."

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Okay, so looking over the first 5 verses in question.

"1 And now, my son, I perceive there is somewhat more which doth worry your mind, which ye cannot understand—which is concerning the justice of God in the punishment of the sinner; for ye do try to suppose that it is injustice that the sinner should be consigned to a state of misery.
2 Now behold, my son, I will explain this thing unto thee. For behold, after the Lord God sent our first parents forth from the garden of Eden, to till the ground, from whence they were taken—yea, he drew out the man, and he placed at the east end of the garden of Eden, cherubim, and a flaming sword which turned every way, to keep the tree of life—
3 Now, we see that the man had become as God, knowing good and evil; and lest he should put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat and live forever, the Lord God placed cherubim and the flaming sword, that he should not partake of the fruit—

You said you agree with 1-3 because it basically quoting the Bible.

4 And thus we see, that there was a time granted unto man to repent, yea, a probationary time, a time to repent and serve God.

And as far as we have gotten on 4

I asked you if it was not granted unto Adam and Eve to repent why do you believe God did not kill them on the spot the moment Adam and Eve partook of the forbidden fruit? What was the point of keeping them alive?

You said God kept them alive so they could have children.

I then asked, "what do you believe kept God from killing them on the spot and creating another couple (Anna and Steve) to replace Adam and Eve?

To that I am awaiting your answer...

 

[Watchmen]

The Mormon’s say, “The book of Mormon is the back half of the Bible."

Mormons say no such thing.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

Mormons say no such thing.

He gets this notion from the quad. I had no idea what he was talking about at first either.

I have tried to explain that the Book of Mormon and the Bible are 2 separate books and that the Book of Mormon is not called the Bible at all, but this idea hasn't quite gotten through to him yet.

Right now I am just trying to focus on verse 4 with him.

 

[Domenic]

You know, Las Vegas was farm land of Mormons, and is still a strong Morman town. I lived there for over ten years. I have had Mormon young men, and their Elders at my door many, many times. I have been told over, and over,,,their book was the back part of the Bible? Do Mormons in different areas have different ideas?

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

You know, Las Vegas was farm land of Mormons, and is still a strong Morman town. I lived there for over ten years. I have had Mormon young men, and their Elders at my door many, many times. I have been told over, and over,,,their book was the back part of the Bible? Do Mormons in different areas have different ideas?

Not everyone has the same level of understanding and not everyone explains things the same way.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

You know, Las Vegas was farm land of Mormons, and is still a strong Morman town. I lived there for over ten years. I have had Mormon young men, and their Elders at my door many, many times. I have been told over, and over,,,their book was the back part of the Bible? Do Mormons in different areas have different ideas?

Are you avoiding my question, "what do you believe kept God from killing them on the spot and creating another couple (Anna and Steve) to replace Adam and Eve?"

If you don't have an answer that is perfectly fine, we can move on to verse 5 which is another one I am pretty sure you disagree with.

"5 For behold, if Adam had put forth his hand immediately, and partaken of the tree of life, he would have lived forever, according to the word of God, having no space for repentance; yea, and also the word of God would have been void, and the great plan of salvation would have been frustrated.”

Would you like to talk about the tree of life that needed to be guarded?