Do you agree with what the Book of Mormon Teaches?

[Flat Earth Kyle]

that day has yet to arrive.

So Elijah has already come in the meridian of time WAY before the Great and Dreadful day of the Lord, because if John the Baptist didn't come in the meridian of time, the Earth would be smitten with a curse in the last days, am I following you correctly?

 

[Pegg]

So Elijah has already come in the meridian of time WAY before the Great and Dreadful day of the Lord, because if John the Baptist didn't come in the meridian of time, the Earth would be smitten with a curse in the last days, am I following you correctly?

the scripture in Malachi says God will send Elijah ( who was John the baptist) before the great and fear inspiring day of Jehovah.

John came in the first century.... the great day has not yet arrived, so John did come before that day, yes?

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

So why was it essential for John the Baptist to come a couple thousand years before the last days? What did he do that effected the last days so much?

 

[Pegg]

So why was it essential for John the Baptist to come a couple thousand years before the last days? What did he do that effected the last days so much?

why was it that Jesus as the messiah came 4,000 years after the fall of man?

time is not the issue here...Gods timetable is not something we have the right to question as if he is running late for an appointment. Let me just say that if the Great day of God did come in the first century, then neither you nor I would be alive today...so we should be thankful that God has 'permitted time' to pass before he acts.


What did John the Baptist do? He prepared the people to accept the messiah...thats what he did. He called the people to repentance...many heeded that call and came to acknowledge their sins and they became disciples of the Messiah.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

why was it that Jesus as the messiah came 4,000 years after the fall of man?

time is not the issue here...Gods timetable is not something we have the right to question as if he is running late for an appointment. Let me just say that if the Great day of God did come in the first century, then neither you nor I would be alive today...so we should be thankful that God has 'permitted time' to pass before he acts.


What did John the Baptist do? He prepared the people to accept the messiah...thats what he did. He called the people to repentance...many heeded that call and came to acknowledge their sins and they became disciples of the Messiah.

Yeah, I can see how John the Baptist made a big impact on the people of his day, but how has he made a big impact on our day? We barely have a few sentences of what he said in his day and the most important thing I can recall him doing was baptizing the savior, which made an impact on all of history, what did he do that was important particularly for the last days? How did John the Baptist turn the hearts of the children to their fathers and the hearts of the fathers to their children?

 

[Pegg]

Yeah, I can see how John the Baptist made a big impact on the people of his day, but how has he made a big impact on our day? We barely have a few sentences of what he said in his day and the most important thing I can recall him doing was baptizing the savior, which made an impact on all of history, what did he do that was important particularly for the last days? How did John the Baptist turn the hearts of the children to their fathers and the hearts of the fathers to their children?

How many people have become christians since the time of John the Baptizer?

John the baptist was the one who would announce the arrival of the Messiah. His record of that announcement is recorded in the scriptures and billions of people know of him and of that announcement.

Thats no small task he was assigned with.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

How many people have become christians since the time of John the Baptizer?

John the baptist was the one who would announce the arrival of the Messiah. His record of that announcement is recorded in the scriptures and billions of people know of him and of that announcement.

Thats no small task he was assigned with.

Yes I understand John the Baptist's role was a big task important and that it equally effected all of history, but what made it particularly important to the people in our day, and how did he turn the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers?

 

[Pegg]

Yes I understand John the Baptist's role was a big task important and that it equally effected all of history, but what made it particularly important to the people in our day, and how did he turn the hearts of the fathers to their children and the hearts of the children to their fathers?

you dont think that those who choose to follow Christ have not had their hearts turned in some way?

 

[Pegg]

When a person becomes a christian, it is imperative that they 'repent' over their former sinful way of life and make a concerted effort to live by Gods righteousness.

how do we know that a christian must repent before they are baptized? We know this from Johns baptisms.
Acts 19:3 And he said: “In what, then, were YOU baptized?” They said: “In John’s baptism.” 4 Paul said: “John baptized with the baptism [in symbol] of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”

Johns baptism had a profound effect on the heart of people in his day, and still in our own day because repentance is what we do when our heart turns away from a sinful course.

 

[muziko]

In response to the title: Yes, I believe most if not all of what the Book of Mormon teaches. The Book of Mormon is actually one of my favorite books.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

When a person becomes a christian, it is imperative that they 'repent' over their former sinful way of life and make a concerted effort to live by Gods righteousness.

how do we know that a christian must repent before they are baptized? We know this from Johns baptisms.
Acts 19:3 And he said: “In what, then, were YOU baptized?” They said: “In John’s baptism.” 4 Paul said: “John baptized with the baptism [in symbol] of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one coming after him, that is, in Jesus.”

Johns baptism had a profound effect on the heart of people in his day, and still in our own day because repentance is what we do when our heart turns away from a sinful course.

Okay,
so do you agree with this?

"11 And now remember, my son, if it were not for the plan of redemption, (laying it aside) as soon as they were dead their souls were miserable, being cut off from the presence of the Lord.
12 And now, there was no means to reclaim men from this fallen state, which man had brought upon himself because of his own disobedience;
13 Therefore, according to justice, the plan of redemption could not be brought about, only on conditions of repentance of men in this probationary state, yea, this preparatory state; for except it were for these conditions, mercy could not take effect except it should destroy the work of justice. Now the work of justice could not be destroyed; if so, God would cease to be God.
14 And thus we see that all mankind were fallen, and they were in the grasp of justice; yea, the justice of God, which consigned them forever to be cut off from his presence.
15 And now, the plan of mercy could not be brought about except an atonement should be made; therefore God himself atoneth for the sins of the world, to bring about the plan of mercy, to appease the demands of justice, that God might be a perfect, just God, and a merciful God also.'

 

[Pegg]

Okay,
so do you agree with this?

you know what Yaddo, just because an entire dialogue contains a few lines of truth, doesnt make the dialogue worthy of being viewed as inspired.

As soon as just 1 line runs contrary to revealed truth from Gods word the bible, the entire thing becomes negated.

 

[savagewind]

you know what Yaddo, just because an entire dialogue contains a few lines of truth, doesnt make the dialogue worthy of being viewed as inspired.

As soon as just 1 line runs contrary to revealed truth from Gods word the bible, the entire thing becomes negated.

Contrary according to whom?

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

you know what Yaddo, just because an entire dialogue contains a few lines of truth, doesnt make the dialogue worthy of being viewed as inspired.

As soon as just 1 line runs contrary to revealed truth from Gods word the bible, the entire thing becomes negated.

Unfortunately for you, you have yet to prove one line is false, which is why I think you are avoiding the question.

Shall I remind you of our results from the 2 Nephi 2 chapter?
Major Disagreements

- 1) You claim God will one day cause Satan to cease to exist
- How can someone cease to exist and still be tormented day and night for ever and ever as Revelation 21:10 states
2) You claim if Satan will one day cease to exist then all opposition will cease to exist.
- If all opposition will cease to exist does God plan on taking away the agency of man?
3) You claim the tree of life in the garden of Eden was a figure of speech
- If the tree of life was a figure of speech signifying living in God’s presence, why did God put cheribims in the east of Eden instead of surrounding Eden. Were they guarding a single spot in Eden or were they guarding all of Eden?
4) You claim Adam and Eve already knew good and evil before they fell, this is why Eve recited the commandment to Satan.
Can someone recite a commandment and yet not have an active conscience? My 2 year old daughter knows not to draw on her hands and feet, and dogs know it is bad to pee on the carpet and bad to bark at other dogs.
5) You claim if Adam and Eve could have remained in the garden they could have had children.
6) You claim it was never a part God’s intent for Adam and Eve to fall.
God knows all things from beginning to end. If he knew long before Christ’s birth that the people would sin and crucify Christ, with that I. know that he knew Adam and Eve were going to partake of the forbidden fruit. God could have chosen someone else, even Christ and someone else to be the first man and woman on earth, but he didn’t he chose Adam and Eve. God does not make mistakes and he is impossible to surprise.

 

[Pegg]

Unfortunately for you, you have yet to prove one line is false, which is why I think you are avoiding the question.

Shall I remind you of our results from the 2 Nephi 2 chapter?
Major Disagreements

you know i've answered each of your questions, but you refuse every single one because they are different to the teachings in the book of mormon.

It doesnt matter what answer i give, you dont believe them anyway. So its not because i havnt answered them, its just that you dont accept the answer...to you it is not an answer until it lines up with the book of mormon.

Well for me its not an answer until it lines up with Gods Word the Bible.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

However doing this with you has helped me to learn a lot about you and it has helped me to look at everything here with new eyes and different perspectives. I am super curious how this chapter will turn out and what major disagreements it will boil down to.

 

[Pegg]

However doing this with you has helped me to learn a lot about you and it has helped me to look at everything here with new eyes and different perspectives. I am super curious how this chapter will turn out and what major disagreements it will boil down to.

why do you want to compare? Whats the point of comparing??

Are you looking to see if the BOM lines up with the bible?

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

you know i've answered each of your questions, but you refuse every single one because they are different to the teachings in the book of mormon.

It doesnt matter what answer i give, you dont believe them anyway. So its not because i havnt answered them, its just that you dont accept the answer...to you it is not an answer until it lines up with the book of mormon.

Well for me its not an answer until it lines up with Gods Word the Bible.

Notice how each claim is followed by a question that you have either failed to answer, or failed to come up with a stronger more rational counter statement.

- 1) You claim God will one day cause Satan to cease to exist
- How can someone cease to exist and still be tormented day and night for ever and ever as Revelation 21:10 states?
2) You claim if Satan will one day cease to exist then all opposition will cease to exist.
- If all opposition will cease to exist does God plan on taking away the agency of man?
3) You claim the tree of life in the garden of Eden was a figure of speech
- If the tree of life was a figure of speech signifying living in God’s presence, why did God put cheribims in the east of Eden instead of surrounding Eden. Were they guarding a single spot in Eden or were they guarding all of Eden?
4) You claim Adam and Eve already knew good and evil before they fell, this is why Eve recited the commandment to Satan.
Can someone recite a commandment and yet not have an active conscience? My 2 year old daughter knows not to draw on her hands and feet, and dogs know it is bad to pee on the carpet and bad to bark at other dogs.
5) You claim if Adam and Eve could have remained in the garden they could have had children.
6) You claim it was never a part God’s intent for Adam and Eve to fall.
God knows all things from beginning to end. If he knew long before Christ’s birth that the people would sin and crucify Christ, with that I. know that he knew Adam and Eve were going to partake of the forbidden fruit. God could have chosen someone else, even Christ if he wanted to and someone else to be the first woman on earth, but he didn’t he chose Adam and Eve. God does not make mistakes and he is impossible to surprise.

But if you do not wish to continue highlighting where you believe the Book of Mormon is wrong I won't hold it against you. We can be done, I will be sad, but we can be done.

 

[Pegg]

Notice how each claim is followed by a question that you have either failed to answer, or failed to come up with a stronger more rational counter statement.



But if you do not wish to continue highlighting where you believe the Book of Mormon is wrong I won't hold it against you. We can be done, I will be sad, but we can be done.

I have answered each of those points yaddo, you know that. Now you are saying you want an answer with a 'stronger' counter statement.

I've given you fairly sound reasons, but i suspect that where they fall short is that they are based on certain truths which you dont agree with...ie, there is no immortal soul, and the dead are unconscious hence are unable to live after death.

torment = destruction & torment forever = permanent destruction of life

that is how we view it and we view it that way because in the Hebrew scritpures there is no immortal soul teaching. Its as a simple and as difficult as that.

 

[Flat Earth Kyle]

I have answered each of those points yaddo, you know that. Now you are saying you want an answer with a 'stronger' counter statement.

I've given you fairly sound reasons, but i suspect that where they fall short is that they are based on certain truths which you dont agree with...ie, there is no immortal soul, and the dead are unconscious hence are unable to live after death.

torment = destruction & torment forever = permanent destruction of life

that is how we view it and we view it that way because in the Hebrew scritpures there is no immortal soul teaching. Its as a simple and as difficult as that.

Really? I don't remember you answering this question.

"Can someone recite a commandment and yet not have an active conscience? My 2 year old daughter knows not to draw on her hands and feet, and dogs know it is bad to pee on the carpet and bad to bark at other dogs. "

Or this question

"If all opposition will cease to exist does God plan on taking away the agency of man?"

Or refuting this statement

"God knows all things from beginning to end. If he knew long before Christ’s birth that the people would sin and crucify Christ, with that I. know that he knew Adam and Eve were going to partake of the forbidden fruit. God could have chosen someone else, even Christ if he wanted to and someone else to be the first woman on earth, but he didn’t he chose Adam and Eve. God does not make mistakes and he is impossible to surprise."

Or successfully refuting this question/statement

"why did God put cheribims in the east of Eden instead of surrounding Eden. Were they guarding a single spot in Eden or were they guarding all of Eden?

Then what you were saying about being tormented forever and how that meant that they would forever never exist, I personally didn't feel was a very convincing argument. I have given plenty of evidence stating that the Hebrews did believe that the spirit of man continued to exist after death.

But hey, like I said if you are ready to quit, I will with sadness accept your decision to quit highlighting your disagreements with the Book of Mormon. Maybe one of the other Jehovah's Witnesses on here will be up for the job....