Do You Approve Of Destroying Confederate Monuments?

[lewisnotmiller]

I think each case should be determined on its merits by the people of the community.

I mostly agree.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

If you approve of destroying Confederate themed
monuments, do you also approve of the Taliban's
destruction of statues of Buddha? If not, why?

No. Because I respect the rights of people to hold Buddhist views. Confederate ones, not so much. Nazi ones, far less again.

These things aren't the same, although I understand the point you're trying to make around permitted beliefs/speech, and controlled.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Sure, as they should. But I'm sure it isn't going to eat them alive over the destruction of the statues.

Unless some don't exemplify detachment very well. ;0)

Buddhists run the full gamut. Just as not all Christians love their neighbours...or some do it a little too literally.

We're all people.

 

[Secret Chief]

Nazi ones, far less again.

I can't decide if I'm shocked or not that some people think it would be ok to have left any public monuments to Nazism standing in Germany. I would guess only neo-Nazis and crypto fascists would defend such an idea.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I can't decide if I'm shocked or not that some people think it would be ok to have left any public monuments to Nazism standing in Germany. I would guess only neo-Nazis and crypto fascists would defend such an idea.

I'm all for remembering Nazism, but the Berlin Holocaust Memorial or even little BIG city do that better than a life-size Hitler statue would.

 

[Secret Chief]

I'm all for remembering Nazism, but the Berlin Holocaust Memorial or even little BIG city do that better than a life-size Hitler statue would.

Oh yes, I agree. Auschwitz remains a powerful reminder of the horror that humans can perpetrate upon others.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Oh yes, I agree. Auschwitz remains a powerful reminder of the horror that humans can perpetrate upon others.

Yup. Took my girls there (9 and 11 at the time).
It's horrific and fascinating, but for me the most important lesson is to not dehumanise others, as we too commonly seem to. Both the Nazis and their victims were humans.

 

[Secret Chief]

Yup. Took my girls there (9 and 11 at the time).
It's horrific and fascinating, but for me the most important lesson is to not dehumanise others, as we too commonly seem to. Both the Nazis and their victims were humans.

Yes, a root of Nazism was obviously the treatment of Germany after the First World War.

 

[Heyo]

I can't decide if I'm shocked or not that some people think it would be ok to have left any public monuments to Nazism standing in Germany. I would guess only neo-Nazis and crypto fascists would defend such an idea.

We left a few standing as reminders. We got rid of most of them and of all symbols (swastikas) but that was right after the war. They weren't historic then.
We also have some statues and symbols of colonialism left and people want to get rid of them - which is as asinine as getting rid of confederate statues now. Too little, too late, better don't do it at all. Keep them as reminders of how not to do it.

 

[Secret Chief]

We left a few standing as reminders. We got rid of most of them and of all symbols (swastikas) but that was right after the war. They weren't historic then.
We also have some statues and symbols of colonialism left and people want to get rid of them - which is as asinine as getting rid of confederate statues now. Too little, too late, better don't do it at all. Keep them as reminders of how not to do it.

In my ignorance....what are the colonial statues/symbols?

 

[PureX]

Some monuments are paid for by rich people, but many are paid for by public subscriptions or out of tax revenues, and in those cases, I would say the reflect at least some of the general attitude of the public of the time.

It's still propaganda, not art.

That in itself can be read as a clue to history, and maybe even a useful one, since all too often, there's no other real historical evidence of the views of the commons.

Now days there is endless historical evidence. The monuments aren't teaching anyone anything they didn't know already or couldn't find out if they wanted to. Those monuments are basically the public graffiti of the leaders in society. Politicians, the church, the wealthy elites, put that stuff up to show everyone else who's in charge and what the 'party line' is. And lots of people even will agree with it at the time. But when the people get sick of it, and want it gone, I see no reason to leave it around. Sure, it's "historic", but so what. So is the plague but we aren't preserving that for posterity, are we?

 

[RestlessSoul]

Yet another knee jerk "False equivalency!" claim.
Find some difference, & then claim there's nothing in common.
Liberals...they need a new battle cry.

You're deliberately missing the point. It takes a very particular, not to say disfunctional, mindset to be offended by a Buddhist sculpture. Whereas most reasonable people would agree that monuments to slavers are at least problematic. If your whole argument hinges on equating slavery with Buddhism, then you really don't have an argument.

 

[Heyo]

In my ignorance....what are the colonial statues/symbols?

Liste von Kolonialdenkmalen – Wikipedia
Sorry, no English version. Most problematic are, like in the US, Statues of military people who are connected to colonial wars.

 

[Augustus]

I've been addressing historical (as in created long ago).

Most of them were created in the 20th c, some as late as the 1960s, and were often mass produced.

Many are not remotely "historical"

 

[Heyo]

Most of them were created in the 20th c, some as late as the 1960s, and were often mass produced.

Many are not remotely "historical"

So, get rid of the modern ones and leave the historical?

 

[Augustus]

So, get rid of the modern ones and leave the historical?

That would be reasonable. I only learned last time this story reared its head that most are from the early to mid 20th C

Actual civil war era monuments have historical value, generic mid-20th C kitsch does not.

I find it bizarre that people think it is Talibanesque, would be "erasing history" or would cause some unspecified cultural harm to remove modern statues of people not respected by the community and that have no aesthetic or historical value whatsoever.

 

[Stevicus]

We left a few standing as reminders. We got rid of most of them and of all symbols (swastikas) but that was right after the war. They weren't historic then.
We also have some statues and symbols of colonialism left and people want to get rid of them - which is as asinine as getting rid of confederate statues now. Too little, too late, better don't do it at all. Keep them as reminders of how not to do it.

What about statues or monuments for General Rommel? He was respected by the Allies and considered to be anti-Nazi (just as General Lee was respected by the Union and considered to be anti-slavery, although he probably wasn't).

I was reading about a marker in Berlin which shows where Hitler's bunker was, but that they resisted putting anything up as to discourage neo-Nazis from making it into some kind of shrine. Although it would be interesting if they restored it and had tours. Same for the Wolf's Lair complex which is in Poland. It might have had some historic value, but I can also see where they wouldn't want it to be a shrine for neo-Nazis.

 

[Ashoka]

In the news....
https://www.newsobserver.com/news/state/north-carolina/article264769574.html
Excerpted...
A North Carolina town watched live online as a bulldozer pushed down its Confederate monument. Mondale Robinson, the mayor of Enfield, North Carolina, took to Facebook to share a livestream as a Confederate monument in the town’s Randolph Park was demolished by a bulldozer on Sunday, Aug. 21. “Yes, sirs! Death to the Confederacy around here,” Robinson said in the video as a bulldozer knocked the monument over. “Not in my town. Not on my watch.”


If you approve of destroying Confederate themed
monuments, do you also approve of the Taliban's
destruction of statues of Buddha? If not, why?

I do, because they are a symbol of hate. Buddha isn't a symbol of hate. The Taliban is destroying those statues because they want a Muslim country without shirk, or polytheism/idol worship.

I think that replacing the confederate statues with a statue of my cat would be most excellent.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I think each case should be determined on its merits by the people of the community.

True. It's a community matter. No one else's business.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Oh yes, I agree. Auschwitz remains a powerful reminder of the horror that humans can perpetrate upon others.

Excellent case in point.