Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
The order of a snowflake does not.
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Do You Believe In God, Why? Don't You Believe In God, Why?
- Thread starter frbnsn
- Start date
A mind would be required for the same reason that a drawing has a drawer who had a mind.
Where did the laws of nature come from that allow music to exist?
The order of laws requires lawmakers who made those laws. Where did the universe originate from that math is used to describe it?
janesix
Active Member
How do you know that? Why is the order of the universe an exception?
janesix
Active Member
It isn't. The things created by humans are the exception. The vast majority of the universe has no creator in evidence. Only those few things on Earth that were created by humans or other animals have any evidence of having a creator.
WE are the exception.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
I think that you have it backwards. There are all sorts of observations of order without an obvious creator. The items that require a creator are the exception and not the rule.
Music is just sound that is pleasing to humans. Sound exists because of the elasticity of the air which allows for pressure waves.
No, the universe did NOT originate from math. Humans use math to describe the universe.
And human law makers are required for human laws, which are geared to human purposes. Natural laws are descriptive of the properties of things in the universe and have no cause. In other words, no lawmaker is required.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Why would one assume that a creator is needed? We can see snowflakes form on their own all of the time. We even have a good understanding of the complex chemical and physical reactions that cause them to be formed. There is no god in the explanation.
janesix
Active Member
There is plenty of evidence. You choose to ignore it.
janesix
Active Member
I don't assume a creator is needed. I see that a creator is needed.
Believing in Jesus requires believing that one is a sinner who needs a Redeemer. It's not convenient. It's more to convenient to believe in chakras and the universe.
The water itself is an element that has origins in the creation of the universe.
Apart from showing that there is a Creator how does music help us understand how the universe works?
You are misrepresenting the atheist position. Believing that there is no god is not required.
Once again we have taste buds to detect foods that are not healthy to eat. That is why they exist. And "plants" existed for over a billion years before actual animals came along. I would suggest that you try to learn a little bit. Oxygen producing organisms were some of the first to exist. Oxygen was a waste product. The atmosphere did not have oxygen in the molecular form because it was too reactive. It took a long long time to even get the dissolved iron in sea water from the Fe+2 state to the Fe+3 state. Fe+2 is water soluble. Fe+3 is not. When life first began kicking out massive amounts of O2 there was a result that we can still see today:
That hole is man made. They are going after the byproduct of early life. Dissolved O2 in sea water reacted with Fe+2 for over a billion years. Today's open pit iron mines are the result. Animal life was not needed by plant life. The atmosphere used to have what would be a poisonous amount of CO2 in it for animal life.
But why are there thousands of taste buds that help us enjoy foods beyond what we need to detect safe and unsafe food?
The Quran's beliefs about doing good deeds to be forgiven are like someone bribing a judge to be forgiven of a crime. Sinful nature means no matter how hard we try we are still going to sin.
Jesus was like a lawyer who would take the place of a person convicted of a crime.
janesix
Active Member
I am just beginning to research and focus on this idea. So I don't really understand much yet. And I have no background in music, theory or practice. I have been shown over the past ten years (extremely slowly) and especially over the last two months. I am beginning to understand. There are musical ratios in DNA, in the platonic solids(among other geometry) in the solar system, in the human body. A real good place to start if you are really interested, is to Google "interference theory" there are many articles at the website, and a free ebook on pdf. It is truly the most fascinating thing I've ever read about.
How is the order of nature different from a car or a house having order?
The order of a snowflake comes from the element water in nature.
Give an example of such evidence and we can discuss it.