Do you believe in reincarnation or rebirth?

[Koldo]

The atoms that form our bodies are continuously being exchanged as cells are replaced,....,perhaps in a relative sense, they too, at that elemental level, offer opportunity for some sort of evolutionary unfoldment? Actually this is Theosophical understanding....consciousness evolves and flows through the elemental kingdoms, to the mineral, plant, animal, human, angelic, etc...

And apparently the Sufis, though Rumi started with the mineral instead of the elements....

I died as a mineral and became a plant;
I died as a plant and rose to animal;
I died as an animal and I was a man.
Why should I fear?
When was I less by dying?
Yet once more I shall die as man to soar...
With angels blest.
But even from an angel I must pass on:
All except God must perish.
When I have sacrificed my angel soul,
I shall become what no mind ever conceived. -Jalaluddin Rumi

So all the kingdoms of nature are permanent, in principle someways like the classes in the school system, but as the consciousness/student awareness unfolds, it seamlessly passes through all the grades until graduation....

A rather odd quote if I may say so. There are way too many 'I' on it. I was under the assumption the personal identity is gone upon death as you said so. How did he retain it?

 

[Twilight Hue]

What do you understand the difference to be?

I look at when the "lights came on" and considered what was responsible for making life possible and so far it's biology by way of cells and the makeup of cells themselves of which it's arrangements are possible by it's atoms. So far as to what's known and by my understanding, atoms are constantly rearranging, falling apart, and reforming and tends to give way to new arrangements including the rising and falling of life phenomena.

The difference as I see things lies with the process or recycling hence rebirth as opposed to anything identifibly static and transient in itself of which retains form and identity as with reincarnation.

Its a fine line there, yet rebirth wins out with me because of the dynamics and nature of things.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

A rather odd quote if I may say so. There are way too many 'I' on it. I was under the assumption the personal identity is gone upon death as you said so. How did he retain it?

The personal I is merely a reflection in the mirror of matter of THAT which is real.

There is in truth only one real I in all eternity...,.that's the real purpose of religion, to find out what and who you really are?

Hope you understand....

 

[George-ananda]

I look at when the "lights came on" and considered what was responsible for making life possible and so far it's biology by way of cells and the makeup of cells themselves of which it's arrangements are possible by it's atoms. So far as to what's known and by my understanding, atoms are constantly rearranging, falling apart, and reforming and tends to give way to new arrangements including the rising and falling of life phenomena.

The difference as I see things lies with the process or recycling hence rebirth as opposed to anything identifibly static and transient in itself of which retains form and identity as with reincarnation.

Its a fine line there, yet rebirth wins out with me because of the dynamics and nature of things.

Nothing there sounds like rebirth or reincarnation as they are generally understood. If you are just saying matter is constantly reforming then that is something everyone believes.

 

[Nakosis]

I believe in the continuation of existence in some form.
I have memories of other lives however these are essentially the lives of individuals I don't identify with.

Personality and identity seem to die with the person.

 

[George-ananda]

Personality and identity seem to die with the person.

I think they continue for a time on the astral and mental planes and then merge into the soul. So the loss is not immediate at death.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I've personally seen people change so much from purely physical causes that I couldn't rightly say that they were the same person they started as. If I can't say for sure that the "self" persists through life, why would I presume that it can survive death? In every measurable way, everything we see suggests that we're purely physical... no?

I have had way too many experiences with the spiritual realm to believe in materialism. I've had contact with deceased relatives, shadow people and some rude entity trying to possess me during a ritual. I have had friends relate to me extremely vivid past life experiences, too. No, I'm way too "far gone" for believing that we're our brains.

Our brains are simply interfaces between our "souls" (units of pure awareness) and this realm. When the receiver is damaged, of course the information that is filtered through it will be changed. You make the mistake of thinking that our identities and personalities during this life are grounded completely in our "souls" and thus are unchangable. I think that's incorrect and that our identities and personalities in this realm are just roles that we play or masks that we wear in order to experience various scenarios. We're all actors on a grand stage. The greatest magicians, such as Crowley, were able to switch their identities at will. I am not really Frank and all that identity entails or what my physical body communicates. I'm a spiritual being experiencing a lifetime through this body and through the lens of my current personality. When I die, I'll drop the shell of the body, review my experiences in the just-ended time in this realm and, hopefully, move on to something bigger in the journey of spiritual Ascension.

 

[Tarheeler]

Do you believe in reincarnation or rebirth?

I believe something that I'd probably describe as being closer to recycling than reincarnation.

 

[Angel1]

You can perhaps agree that we who are here now, today, are a bit more advanced than any who have lived in the past, excepting Christ and the avatars sent by God to guide us.

Owing to our more advanced development, the old irrational explanations given to the ancients, to us, no longer satisfy. The more thoughtful among us have begun to question the old absurd divine teachings premised purely on blind faith. So to these, new explanations and new teachings are provided to guide them forward.

With the coming of the New Age, Theosophy, Tibetan Buddhism and the writings of Lobsang Rampa have provided new insights into the Divine Principle of Reincarnation to the followers of Eastern religions. To the Christians, Spiritism confirms this teaching. Edgar Cayce through his life readings aptly provides justification and explains the inter-relationship between our past and present lives. So do many Spiritualist mediums and mystics concur. Other scientists and writers -- Dr. Ian Stevenson, Raymond Moody and Helen Wambach -- expound on other supplementary aspects of this teaching.

The evidences are everywhere to be found by the determined seeker.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Nothing there sounds like rebirth or reincarnation as they are generally understood. If you are just saying matter is constantly reforming then that is something everyone believes.

It's the matter by which we came about surely. As far as rebirth goes, if not the popular definition, then it's my personal rendition of what I percieve to be at least some kind of form of rebirth if you want to call it that. Otherwise simply my take on things. :0]

 

[BSM1]

From what you are saying we could completely consider reincarnation as false because we obviously don't have that kind of memory. But in Hinduish understanding, it is not the previous incarnation that reincarnates but the soul of that previous incarnation that reincarnates. The soul remembers all incarnations but each incarnation itself starts as a blank slate.

Had to read this a couple of times to get it, but, yeah, kinda. The blank slate, as I understand it is more like a blank wall. This wall occasionally has a very murky window stuck in it that some find and can peer into what lies behind the wall. Others, it seems, can raise the window for a much clearer view.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I have had way too many experiences with the spiritual realm to believe in materialism. I've had contact with deceased relatives, shadow people and some rude entity trying to possess me during a ritual. I have had friends relate to me extremely vivid past life experiences, too. No, I'm way too "far gone" for believing that we're our brains.

Our brains are simply interfaces between our "souls" (units of pure awareness) and this realm. When the receiver is damaged, of course the information that is filtered through it will be changed.

If you damage the antenna of a television, you get the same TV show with static; you don't get a whole different show.

You make the mistake of thinking that our identities and personalities during this life are grounded completely in our "souls" and thus are unchangable.

Why would you assume I think that? It's obvious that a person's personality changes throughout his life.

All I assume is that when someone says something like "I will be reincarnated" or "I will live in Heaven after I die", they're assuming that whatever non-physical "soul" or "spirit" they think exists, it retains enough of the person to be properly called "me". They're assuming that the essence of the person is contained within the soul... that if there is a soul and it persists after death, it's really the person surviving and not just an aspect of them.

I think that's incorrect and that our identities and personalities in this realm are just roles that we play or masks that we wear in order to experience various scenarios. We're all actors on a grand stage. The greatest magicians, such as Crowley, were able to switch their identities at will. I am not really Frank and all that identity entails or what my physical body communicates. I'm a spiritual being experiencing a lifetime through this body and through the lens of my current personality. When I die, I'll drop the shell of the body, review my experiences in the just-ended time in this realm and, hopefully, move on to something bigger in the journey of spiritual Ascension.

When you take away the stuff we know is rooted in the physical - the aspects of us that can be fundamentally altered by chemical or physical changes - what's left? Can it rightly be called "us"?

Set aside the question of whether we have some non-physical aspect that survives for a moment; when we take away all the physical, what's left to be in that non-physical aspect... if it exists at all?

 

[Nakosis]

I think they continue for a time on the astral and mental planes and then merge into the soul. So the loss is not immediate at death.

Based on?
You maybe right. I just rely on the limited certainty of my own apparent experiences.

I kind of like the Tibetan Book of the Dead. Just wishful thinking though. Always wonder where such information comes from.

 

[Goblin]

It's a poetic expression of how the collective unconscious bleeds into every Beings consciousness.
We remember memories of People similar to us. But that doesn't mean we are them in some sort of linear line of rebirth. But we can remember dead peoples memories floating out in the airwaves

 

[George-ananda]

Based on?
.

Based on my study of things 'paranormal'. NDE people describe this astral plane. Spirit communication occurs from occupants of this plane. Spiritual masters perceive these other planes. etc..

 

[Robert Landbeck]

Do you believe in reincarnation or rebirth?

Although not a 'Christian' by any traditional definition, I do find the idea of 'rebirth' of interest. But not in any conventional religious sense. It is clear, at least to myself, that the human condition, rooted in an evolutionary paradigm, is without the moral or spiritual potential to be characterized as a sustainable species. Or to address any of the most threatening possibilities facing both mankind and the earth itself. The existing status quo cannot hold much longer!

So if a 'rebirth' is ever offered by God, it will have to include a moral dimension that takes the human condition into a reality greater that what human nature or evolution is able to effect for itself. Such a direct intervention into the natural world by omnipotent power, a rebirth, might also be called a 'Resurrection' in the since that the Resurrection of Christ was of itself a demonstration of God's willingness intervene on behalf of one who conforms to His will.

So if we are ever to be the stewards of the natural world God intended, He will have to supply the necessary insights and values to do so. And Raise the heart of man to a newly Enlightened state. That would give the idea 'of being created in the image and likeness of God' some plausible foundation. The Final Freedoms

 

[Nakosis]

Based on my study of things 'paranormal'. NDE people describe this astral plane. Spirit communication occurs from occupants of this plane. Spiritual masters perceive these other planes. etc..

Any personal experience. I think I probably asked before.

I don't believe in alien abductions or ghosts cause I've never experienced such. Hinduism and Buddhism seems to support my experiences.

Christianity, I've never seen, experienced resurrection. I look to religions to explain my experiences.

 

[George-ananda]

Any personal experience. I think I probably asked before.

I don't believe in alien abductions or ghosts cause I've never experienced such. Hinduism and Buddhism seems to support my experiences.

Christianity, I've never seen, experienced resurrection. I look to religions to explain my experiences.

I believe I have had positive encounters with the spirit realm but there is of course no way to objectively prove it.

But we all believe in non-paranormal experiences that we have not personally experienced. As I enjoy studying the paranormal I look at the quantity and quality of experiences and look for patterns, consistency, etc. and form my best opinion. I would know very little about anything normal or paranormal from just my own experience.

 

[outhouse]

the collective unconscious

And just what is that?

Supply credible sources.

 

[outhouse]

I believe I have had positive encounters with the spirit realm but there is of course no way to objectively prove it.

Is this not another way to say, Im not sure if this exist outside my imagination?