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Do you believe in the trinity?

allfoak

Alchemist
To be made without sin and in God's likeness.To possess God's attributes.Gods qualities are Love,Wisdom,Justice and Power.

Please look over what you just wrote.
I was under the impression that we are all made in the image of God?

I am sinless?

God's likeness?

I have what attributes?

I have those qualities?
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Jesus is a spokesman,a representative,not God the Almighty.Men,who were called
god or Gods,were called this to describe human judges or people in powerful positions.Moses was told that he was to serve as “God” to Aaron and to Pharaoh.Moses was Gods spokesman.So was Jesus.Notice Jesus says,36 "what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, ‘I am God’s Son’?" So we can see here Jesus is not calling himself God the Almighty or an equal to Him at all.

Yes agreed. I just take ye are gods a little more seriously maybe. Of course he always gave credit to the father but rather an impersonal force. By removing the trinity you make it all one and the same and therefore god is only personal through the son.
 

Harikrish

Active Member
Does Mohammad prove Jesus was just another prophet in heaven.

During Mohammad's ascension to Heaven he met all the prophets including Jesus.


Greeting the Prophets

Prophet Muhammad tells us that he saw his father Adam, the father of all of mankind. He greeted him with the greeting of all Muslims, - Assalamu alaikum (may peace be upon you). Adam returned the greeting and expressed his faith in Muhammad’s prophethood. He called him his pure son, the pure prophet. Imagine the pleasure that this meeting must have given to both men. After thousands of years, Adam was able to see his son Muhammad, the greatest of his descendents. Muhammad was able to look into the eyes of the father of mankind. The wonders however were only just beginning. Angel Gabriel and Prophet Muhammad then ascended to the second heaven.

At the gate, Angel Gabriel again sought permission to enter. When the gatekeepers learned Prophet Muhammad had been given his mission and was trying to enter, they welcomed him and opened the gate. There Prophet Muhammad saw the two cousins, Prophet John (known in Christian traditions as the Baptist) and the Messenger of God, Prophet Jesus; Prophet Muhammad exchanged greetings with them.

Prophet Muhammad and Angel Gabriel ascended once more to the gates of the third heaven. At each gate, the same exchange took place. When the gatekeepers had established that it was Angel Gabriel in the company of Prophet Muhammad, who had indeed been given his mission, they gave permission to enter. Here, in the third heaven, Prophet Muhammad met Joseph and described him as an embodiment of half of all beauty.

As Prophet Muhammad met the Prophets in each heaven, he exchanged greetings with them, and this was always Assalamu alaikum, the greeting of peace used by all those in submission to the One True God. In the fourth heaven, Prophet Muhammad met Prophet Idris, whom God described in Quran (19:57) as being elevated to a very high level. In the fifth heaven, he met Prophet Aaron, the brother of Moses. At each meeting, the Prophets expressed their faith in Muhammad’s prophethood. In the sixth heaven, Prophet Muhammad met Moses.

Whenever Prophet Moses is mentioned in the Quran or in the narrations of Prophet Muhammad, we know that something important is about to be described. After the two Prophets had exchanged greetings and Prophet Moses had expressed his faith in Muhammad’s prophethood, Moses started to weep. When he was asked why, he replied: “A young man has come after me, and more of his followers will enter paradise then my followers”.

Until the advent of Islam, Prophet Moses had had the largest following of any Prophet. Moses cried, and from this, we can understand that there was a type of rivalry between the Prophets; but it was not a competition filled with jealousy or envy. Rather, it was filled with compassion. As we move further into the journey, we will see the love and compassion Prophet Moses had for Muhammad and his followers. Prophet Muhammad and Angel Gabriel then ascended into the seventh heaven.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Does Mohammad prove Jesus was just another prophet in heaven.

During Mohammad's ascension to Heaven he met all the prophets including Jesus.

No they also think jesus is a messiah.
Isa Ibn Maryam, known as Jesus in the New Testament, is considered to be a Messenger of God and al-Masih (the Messiah) in Islam who was sent to guide the Children of Israel (banī isrā'īl) with a new scripture, al-Injīl (the Gospel).
Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
Please look over what you just wrote.
I was under the impression that we are all made in the image of God?

I am sinless?

God's likeness?

I have what attributes?

I have those qualities?
Many think that we are made to literally look like God.This is impossible.God is a spirit.He is called the invisible God.Things that are invisible cannot be seen.Therefore we are not made to look like God.Image in this sense means in His likeness.

Man was originally made without sin.Man did not sin until the fall in the Garden of Eden.Man was made to possess Gods attributes.To be godlike.To love.To have a sense of justice.To be wise.To be powerful.We all have these attributes,but to an extent.God is all powerful and all wise.God is love.He distributes justice.

You can love right?
You have a sense of justice do you not?
You can be wise right"
You can display power can you not?

These are all attributes we share with our creator.
 
Yes agreed. I just take ye are gods a little more seriously maybe. Of course he always gave credit to the father but rather an impersonal force. By removing the trinity you make it all one and the same and therefore god is only personal through the son.
Well if you notice, when ever Jesus mentions being one with the father,the holy spirit is never mentioned.Jesus always says I and the father are one.He does not say I,the Father and the holy spirit are one.In all of those scriptures you will never find three being mentioned as in each other.it is always Jesus and God.
 

Harikrish

Active Member
No they also think jesus is a messiah.

But their interpretation of Messiah is quite different.

Another title frequently mentioned is al-Masīḥ, which translates to "the Messiah". This does not correspond to the Christian concept of Messiah, as Islam regards all prophets, including Jesus, to be mortal and without any share in divinity. Muslim exegetes explain the use of the word masīh in the Quran as referring to Jesus' status as the one anointed by means of blessings and honors; or as the one who helped cure the sick, by anointing the eyes of the blind, for example
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
'Trinity' means different things in a very technical sense to different people. When someone says 'Jesus is G-d', this doesn't mean they think the trinity idea is incorrect necessarily, they just view the terms differently. Same as people who say 'Jesus isn't G-d', they will sometimes use the trinity idea to mean that the 'man' (non-Deific Jesus) is part of the trinity.
Basically what I'm saying is that 'trinity' is not descriptive enough as a term to be a specific question.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
But their interpretation of Messiah is quite different.

Yes but thats the similar to the interpretation of non-trinitarian christians who insist Jesus cannot be the Father. Though they do deny god having a son. I tend to think any creation is a child of the creator but thats largely semantics. Not sharing in divinity is a big concept from the quran, still in the bible Jesus was explicit to give all credit to the father.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Well if you notice, when ever Jesus mentions being one with the father,the holy spirit is never mentioned.Jesus always says I and the father are one.He does not say I,the Father and the holy spirit are one.In all of those scriptures you will never find three being mentioned as in each other.it is always Jesus and God.

Yes the third persona of the trinity is easiest to debunk and largely unnecessary.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Many Christians although believing in the 'trinity', do not actually think Jesus is literally the father, they think that the Jesus aspect in the trinity is a different personality, just sharing the same purpose as the father.

For clarity my background is of 'Jesus is G-d', as in literally is the same Deity, however this is in Spirit form, in 'man form' Jesus would be partially separated (Seems like it) from the 'father'.
 
Many Christians although believing in the 'trinity', do not actually think Jesus is literally the father, they think that the Jesus aspect in the trinity is a different personality, just sharing the same purpose as the father.

For clarity my background is of 'Jesus is G-d', as in literally is the same Deity, however this is in Spirit form, in 'man form' Jesus would be partially separated (Seems like it) from the 'father'.
The majority of so called Christians,mainly Catholics,literally believe that Jesus is God the Almighty in the flesh.That means 1.3 Billion believe this.
 

Harikrish

Active Member
Yes but thats the similar to the interpretation of non-trinitarian christians who insist Jesus cannot be the Father. Though they do deny god having a son. I tend to think any creation is a child of the creator but thats largely semantics. Not sharing in divinity is a big concept from the quran, still in the bible Jesus was explicit to give all credit to the father.

Mohammad showed it was not that difficult to go to haven and return to earth riding a Buraq an Arabian unicorn. He even saw Jesus in Heaven. So what is holding back Jesus's second coming? Did Mohammad use the last Buraq.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Mohammad showed it was not that difficult to go to haven and return to earth riding a Buraq an Arabian unicorn. He even saw Jesus in Heaven. So what is holding back Jesus's second coming? Did Mohammad use the last Buraq.

Lol, me personally, I'm am through waiting for some savior from the skies, honestly.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
The majority of so called Christians,mainly Catholics,literally believe that Jesus is God the Almighty in the flesh.

Why would they come up with the 'trinity' explanation then. I have read more than one opinion from non-protestants that Jesus has a different 'personality' in some sense, so not really sure you're correct here.
 
Why would they come up with the 'trinity' explanation then. I have read more than one opinion from non-protestants that Jesus has a different 'personality' in some sense, so not really sure you're correct here.
Because they believe that God the Father,Jesus the Son and the holy spirit are all one literally.They believe that God can be all.This is not what the holy scriptures teaches.This is a pagan belief.A false doctrine of men.The Trinity doctrine is never spoken of or mentioned in the holy scriptures.It is something that came about way after Jesus and his true disciples were all gone already.It derived from Christendom,which is counterfeit Christianity.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Why would they come up with the 'trinity' explanation then. I have read more than one opinion from non-protestants that Jesus has a different 'personality' in some sense, so not really sure you're correct here.

There were/are a large number of Christology theories. It just so happens that one group gained state backing and the power to persecute the other groups almost completely out of existence. Granted, dissenting groups weren't always persecuted. Sometimes there were just schisms when some churches didn't accept certain Councils.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Because they believe that God the Father,Jesus the Son and the holy spirit are all one literally.They believe that God can be all.This is not what the holy scriptures teaches.This is a pagan belief.A false doctrine of men.The Trinity doctrine is never spoken of or mentioned in the holy scriptures.It is something that came about way after Jesus and his true disciples were all gone already.It derived from Christendom,which is counterfeit Christianity.

No, I'm not sure Catholics believe this. When people believe that the Godhead is all one Deity, (like my religious understanding), the trinity becomes more of a descriptive term that either isn't really used, or used in a different way, it is only describing the different manifestations. Often they don't even consider themselves Trinitarians in any sense, hence the Oneness Doctrine Christians etc.
Example 'trinitarian' doesn't mean anything to me, it's the same Deity in Spirit or Deific form, the only 'diference' is the man form Jesus, who is only different in the sense that He is part man.
 
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