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Do you believe in the trinity?

No, I'm not sure Catholics believe this. When people believe that the Godhead is all one Deity, (like my religious understanding), the trinity becomes more of a descriptive term that either isn't really used, or used in a different way, it is only describing the different manifestations. Often they don't even consider themselves Trinitarians in any sense, hence the Oneness Doctrine Christians etc.
Example 'trinitarian' doesn't mean anything to me, it's the same Deity in Spirit or Deific form, the only 'diference' is the man form Jesus, who is only different in the sense that He is part man.
"But in the one true God and Trinity it is naturally true not only that God is one but also that he is a Trinity, for the reason that the true God himself is a Trinity of Persons and one in nature. Through this natural unity the whole Father is in the Son and in the Holy Spirit, and the whole Holy Spirit, too, is in the Father and in the Son. None of these is outside any of the others; because no one of them precedes any other of them in eternity or exceeds any other in greatness, or is superior to any other in power" (The Rule of Faith 4 [c. A.D. 523).


The Trinity | Catholic Answers
 
No 'threes' in my religious understanding of Xianity. nada, zip, silch. :D
There is no Trinity.That passage, from Catholicism,teaches that All three are equal in greatness.This is incorrect.There is only one God Almighty.Not three.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
"But in the one true God and Trinity it is naturally true not only that God is one but also that he is a Trinity, for the reason that the true God himself is a Trinity of Persons and one in nature. Through this natural unity the whole Father is in the Son and in the Holy Spirit, and the whole Holy Spirit, too, is in the Father and in the Son. None of these is outside any of the others; because no one of them precedes any other of them in eternity or exceeds any other in greatness, or is superior to any other in power" (The Rule of Faith 4 [c. A.D. 523).


The Trinity | Catholic Answers

Good reference, I would encourage you to ask Catholics how they view the trinity in further detail, 'same nature' is not completely descriptive here.

'Trinity of persons' for instance, that is not how non-trini's view G-d, for non-trinis G-d is one "person".
 
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Good reference, I would encourage you to ask Catholics how they view the trinity in further detail, 'same nature' is not completely descriptive here.

'Trinity of persons' for instance, that is not how non-trini's view G-d, for non-trinis G-d is one "person".
I see how you are saying the nature part but totally not mentioning the persons part.
Here it is again but just the first sentence."But in the one true God and Trinity it is naturally true not only that God is one but also that he is a Trinity, for the reason that the true God himself is a Trinity of Persons and one in nature.

It says "of persons and one in nature".So they believe God is literally three in one, physically speaking, and also one in nature.


The Trinity | Catholic Answers
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
I see how you are saying the nature part but totally not mentioning the persons part.
Here it is again but just the first sentence."But in the one true God and Trinity it is naturally true not only that God is one but also that he is a Trinity, for the reason that the true God himself is a Trinity of Persons and one in nature.

It says "of persons and one in nature".So they believe God is literally three in one, physically speaking, and also one in nature.


The Trinity | Catholic Answers

Great, but if I say 'Jesus is G-d', it doesn't mean three different persons who are one in nature, it means that, literally "Jesus=JHVH", the same deity, no distinct persons, no separation. That's all I'm saying.
I see from what you presented that we do seem to understand the 'trinity' idea in the same way, but I'm saying that 'trinity' as a term is not inherently declarative of three distinct persons, you have to ask the individual. Most times you won't have to, as 'trinitarian' tends to be something people label themselves, there's a good chance if someone doesn't state they are Trinitarian right off the bat, they don't have this concept of the Godhead.
 
In this next passage they try to say that the Trinity is all three in one but they are all distinctive from each other.Yet,later,it says they are all omnipotent.According to the word omnipotent,this means all powerful,Almighty.We know that only God is the Almighty.So to say that all three are omnipotent goes against what the holy scriptures actually teaches about God.

The Trinity is the term employed to signify the central doctrine of the Christian religion — the truth that in the unity of the Godhead there are Three Persons, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these Three Persons being truly distinct one from another.

Thus, in the words of the Athanasian Creed: "the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, and yet there are not three Gods but one God." In this Trinity of Persons the Son is begotten of the Father by an eternal generation, and the Holy Spirit proceeds by an eternal procession from the Father and the Son. Yet, notwithstanding this difference as to origin, the Persons are co-eternal and co-equal: all alike are uncreated and omnipotent. This, the Church teaches, is the revelation regarding God's nature which Jesus Christ, the Son of God, came upon earth to deliver to the world: and which she proposes to man as the foundation of her whole dogmatic system.



CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: The Blessed Trinity

om·nip·o·tent
ˌämˈnipəd(ə)nt/
adjective
1.
(of a deity) having unlimited power; able to do anything.
synonyms: all-powerful, almighty, supreme, preeminent, most high; invincible, unconquerable

Jesus is not the Almighty.He is Mighty,but not Almighty.The holy spirit is God's active force.It is not a person.

There is only one Almighty God and He is not three people.
 
Great, but if I say 'Jesus is G-d', it doesn't mean three different persons who are one in nature, it means that, literally "Jesus=JHVH", the same deity, no distinct persons, no separation. That's all I'm saying.
I see from what you presented that we do seem to understand the 'trinity' idea in the same way, but I'm saying that 'trinity' as a term is not inherently declarative of three distinct persons, you have to ask the individual. Most times you won't have to, as 'trinitarian' tends to be something people label themselves, there's a good chance if someone doesn't state they are Trinitarian right off the bat, they don't have this concept of the Godhead.
It actually matters not what a person thinks.:yoda:What matters is what the holy scriptures tells us.It says Jehovah God is the Almighty.Jesus is His Son who is a Mighty God.Jesus is never referred to as the Almighty.Only Jehovah God is Omnipotent.Jesus gets his power from Jehovah God by way of holy spirit.This is God's active force.This is the same power that was used to create the universe and inspire the Word of God to be written.
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
It actually matters not what a person thinks.:yoda:What matters is what the holy scriptures tells us.It says Jehovah God is the Almighty.Jesus is His Son who is a Mighty God.Jesus is never referred to as the Almighty.Only Jehovah God is Omnipotent.Jesus gets his power from Jehovah God by way of holy spirit.This is God's active force.This is the same power that was used to create the universe and inspire the Word of God to be written.

I don't think Jesus is a separate 'mighty G-d' from JHVH, that's encouraging worship of more than one deity. There are just so many issues with that imo, like, what if they disagree with each other etc.
 

Harikrish

Active Member
The trinity doctrine.

The word Trinity describes the belief in Christian theology that the one God of the universe is comprised of three persons: the Father, the Son, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. It has been the conviction of Christians throughout the centuries that this is what the Bible teaches.
The doctrine of the Trinity was first thoroughly and formally articulated in the fourth century in response to perceived distortions of biblical teaching on the subject, but the fundamental beliefs of the doctrine can be seen from the first century. And while no systematic presentation of the doctrine can be found in the New Testament, Christians argue that it can be shown that the Bible teaches that the Father is God, the Son, Jesus Christ, is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, all the while affirming that there is but one God.

The word “Trinity” is not in the Bible. Church father Tertullian coined it in 192 C.E. M

Historical Development
No matter who you listen to, the doctrine of the Trinity has proven to be the most technical and complex teaching in the history of church dogma. To assess it, we need to review briefly its historical development, which occurred in the following stages:
• 1st century: Advocating a strict Jewish monotheism, that God is “one” (Person or Being), so that only the Father is God. Thus, Jesus Christ is not identified as God.
• 2nd century: God is two un-equal Persons—the Father and His inferior Logos-Son. Jesus Christ temporally preexisted as the Logos-Son prior to His incarnation as man.
• 3rd century: God is two un-equal Persons—the Father and His inferior Logos-Son. But the Father generates the Logos-Son to become an eternally preexisting Peron.
• Early 4th century: God is two co-equal and co-eternal Persons: the Father and the Son. So far, nothing has been decided about the constitution of the Holy Spirit.
• Late 4th century: God is three co-equal and co-eternal Persons—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit—and all three members of this Trinity share the same substance.
So, the final formula of the doctrine of the Trinity did not obtain until the late 4th century. (For a semantic discussion of words of Church authorities used to identify the one God and distinguish the three members of the Trinity from this Godhead.
see subheads The Nicene Creed and The Council of Constantinople in Chapter Two of The Restitution of Jesus Christ.)

Constantine the Great called the First Council of Nicaea(325), composed of 300 religious leaders. Three centuries after Jesus lived, this council was given the task of separating divinely inspired writings from those of questionable origin.

This was the setting in which the doctrine of the Trinity emerged. In those early decades after Jesus Christ's ministry, death and resurrection, and spanning the next few centuries, various ideas sprang up as to His exact nature. Was He man? Was He God? Was He God appearing as a man? Was He an illusion? Was He a mere man who became God? Was He created by God the Father, or did He exist eternally with the Father?

A classic example of this was the dispute over the nature of Christ that led the Roman emperor Constantine the Great to convene the Council of Nicaea (in modern-day western Turkey) in A.D. 325.
Arius, a priest from Alexandria, Egypt, taught that Christ, because He was the Son of God, must have had a beginning and therefore was a special creation of God. Further, if Jesus was the Son, the Father of necessity must be older.
Opposing the teachings of Arius was Athanasius, a deacon also from Alexandria. His view was an early form of Trinitarianism wherein the Father, Son and Holy Spirit were one but at the same time distinct from each other.

With the emperor's approval, the Council rejected the minority view of Arius and, having nothing definitive with which to replace it, approved the view of Athanasius—also a minority view. The church was left in the odd position of officially supporting, from that point forward, the decision made at Nicaea to endorse a belief held by only a minority of those attending.
The groundwork for official acceptance of the Trinity was now laid—but it took more than three centuries after Jesus Christ's death and resurrection for this unbiblical teaching to emerge!
 

Gnostic Seeker

Spiritual
Did Jesus ever claim to be a deity? I would contend he did not. He always at most said he was God's son, which the NT says we also are. Jesus said he spoke on God's behalf and even went as far to say that if he testifies of himself, his testimony is not true (John 5:31-32).
 

Harikrish

Active Member
1 John 5:6 This is the one who came by water and blood--Jesus Christ. He did not come by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit who testifies, because the Spirit is the truth. 7 For there are three that testify: 8 the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement.

1. Jesus came by water and blood...which make him 1 (because he is both water and blood)
2. The spirit counts as 1.
So Jesus and the Spirit makes 2 not three.

Now in John 10:30 My Father and I are one.

So you now have.

1. The Spirit counts as 1
2. The Father and Jesus being one counts as 1
Add the two and we get a count of 2.

We still only get two from either verses.

Jesus saying The father and him are one destroys the triune. Just as claiming he is both water and blood together make him one. If we have to separate Jesus as two in 1 John 5:7 then the Father (1) + Jesus (2) + the Spirit (1) = 4.
 

allfoak

Alchemist
Many think that we are made to literally look like God.This is impossible.God is a spirit.He is called the invisible God.Things that are invisible cannot be seen.Therefore we are not made to look like God.Image in this sense means in His likeness.

Man was originally made without sin.Man did not sin until the fall in the Garden of Eden.Man was made to possess Gods attributes.To be godlike.To love.To have a sense of justice.To be wise.To be powerful.We all have these attributes,but to an extent.God is all powerful and all wise.God is love.He distributes justice.

You can love right?
You have a sense of justice do you not?
You can be wise right"
You can display power can you not?

These are all attributes we share with our creator.
I was made in the image of God (sinless) but now i am not? i just have love justice wisdom and power?
Some of us got left out on the image thing.
I see many without any of those things in their life.

I'm sorry but this is a very lame argument.
 

allfoak

Alchemist
Did Jesus ever claim to be a deity? I would contend he did not. He always at most said he was God's son, which the NT says we also are. Jesus said he spoke on God's behalf and even went as far to say that if he testifies of himself, his testimony is not true (John 5:31-32).

The name Jesus actually has very little to do with the historical Jesus.
The name represents the highest vibration of mind that we can achieve, which is oneness with God.
The whole story is about how to achieve that end.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
I don't think Jesus is a separate 'mighty G-d' from JHVH, that's encouraging worship of more than one deity. There are just so many issues with that imo, like, what if they disagree with each other etc.

Pretty much I see the very same thing.
 
I was made in the image of God (sinless) but now i am not? i just have love justice wisdom and power?
Some of us got left out on the image thing.
I see many without any of those things in their life.

I'm sorry but this is a very lame argument.
Yes.You are sinful now because of the disobeying done by Adam and Eve.They were once sinless.They sinned and now mankind has inherited death through sin.Just because you see many without those things in their life does not mean they do not possess the means to do so.Im sorry you feel this is lame.Well the good thing about that is you do not have to stay and talk.Carry on if you wish.I will.Sorry to here that.Goodbye......................
 
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