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Do you believe the Bible is God's word?

siti

Well-Known Member
@Starlight ...like I said, you are not alone in overlooking the vengeful and violent God of the Bible...obviously the Catholic Bible Study thing you are quoting from is doing exactly that - or rather excusing it by appealing to some linguistic gymnastics (using an English translation mind you, not even original language) to suggest that when God clearly said "kill 'em all" s/he didn't really mean "kill 'em all"! If that is indicative of professed Catholic's beliefs (which it probably isn't) then you've already got about a quarter of the world's population on your side.

Note, though, that they have also conveniently left out (cherry-picking again) examples of scripture that offer a completely opposite view of the matter - e.g. what happened when Saul failed to kill the animals of the Amalekites? (1 Samuel 15) Didn't God denounce Saul for failing to "kill 'em all" as instructed? If when God says "kill 'em all" s/he doesn't really mean "kill 'em all", why was Saul censured for saving the sheep?

But the crux really is not that...the crux is how do you reconcile the central doctrine of Christianity - the idea that the most innocent of all men had to die, with God's approval, as a propitiatory offering in place of all non-innocent humans to satisfy God's perfect standard of justice - with the omnibenevolence of God?

How can God's approval of the ultimate injustice be squared with the idea of an all-loving, all-just God?
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member

Do you believe the Bible is God's word?


Did Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah say/claim that the NT-Bible is Gd's word, please, right?/
If yes, then pleas quote from him, please, right?
Else, isn't it an accusation...?

Regards
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't really have any strong thoughts about the Bible since it isn't part of my traditions. As far as written texts being authored by the gods, from what little I know about the history of the Bible's writing it seems unlikely to me or impossible to verify in this era. Certainly, humans channel the gods on a routine basis whether they're aware of it or not. It can be argued that we're always channeling the gods. But the particularly inspired moments are something else. Words and songs and dances seeming to appear out of their own accord. And when you have had that experience (I have, often) it feels like it is not coming from you, but through you from something other. Was that happening with the writers of the Bible? Again, not really possible to know for anyone but them, and they've been dead for ages and ages.
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member

Do you believe the Bible is God's word?


Did Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah say/claim that the NT-Bible is Gd's word, please, right?/
If yes, then pleas quote from him, please, right?
Else, isn't it an accusation...?

Regards
If Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah say/claim that the NT-Bible is Gd's word, why anybody else believe as such, right?

Regards
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Interesting scope.

Few people even know that moses by command of god had 3000+ murdered at mt sinai for making the golden calf

""“This is what the Lord, the God of Israel, says: ‘Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.’” 28 The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of the people died. """
Why should anyone believe that was commanded by God?
 

Sand Dancer

Currently catless
I believe the whole Bible is not from God. Some people wrote parts that is wrong about God. God has never asked us humans to kill each other. God is against killing innocent people
Many parts of the Bible is from God, but some parts of the Bible is not from God
The parts that is loving and just is from God.

What do you believe about the Bible?
The Bible is like other scriptures, being man's idea of god and how we respond to it. So much in it is just not nice, and contradictory, so we get the agendas of the authors.
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
Why should anyone believe that was commanded by God?
Frodo is supposed to throw the ring into the fires from which it was created: Lord of the Rings, BK 3, Return of the king.

I dont know the page but as it happened, per the story, Gollum bit the finger that it was on and fell into the flames.

Story telling is still just story telling and I have read the material to learn the stories.
 

danieldemol

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I believe the whole Bible is not from God. Some people wrote parts that is wrong about God. God has never asked us humans to kill each other. God is against killing innocent people
Many parts of the Bible is from God, but some parts of the Bible is not from God
The parts that is loving and just is from God.

What do you believe about the Bible?
I believe the Bible is a human product.

As far as God being just and/or loving I hold the (irrational) belief that God is only just/loving in the afterlife, because i don't see it as just and/or loving to subject creatures to misery in this life.
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
I believe the Bible is a human product.
Great scope. As mankind created every religion said to be by god.
As far as God being just and/or loving I hold the (irrational) belief that God is only just/loving in the afterlife,
Nice, That is how LOVE works.
because i don't see it as just and/or loving to subject creatures to misery in this life.
Great perspective. Do what is right no matter how people claim. If you feel your conscious expressing what is right and just, follow it!
 

Dao Hao Now

Active Member
God is not vengeful or violent

Just read this:

This is a question that participants of The Great Adventure Bible studies frequently ask us, and it’s a tough one to answer. We know that God is all good and all loving. In fact, “God is love” (1 John 4:8). And yet, in the Old Testament, we find various scenes in which God’s people are called to “destroy” other nations. Here’s one example:


Yikes! These do not sound like the words of a God who “is love.” Troublesome passages like this remind us why it is so important to understand how to interpret Scripture “in accordance with the Spirit who inspired it” (see Catechism of the Catholic Church 111-114). Based on this text alone, without proper context, it’s easy to see why someone might think that God commands evil. If we are to understand what is happening here, then we need to keep in mind the following criteria for biblical interpretation:

  1. Pay attention to the “content and unity of the whole of Scripture” (CCC 112). In other words, the rest of Scripture should help to make sense of this passage. So we can turn to similar passages of the Bible to help shed light on this question.
  2. Read the Bible in light of the “living Tradition” of the Church (CCC 113). We have to take into account what God has revealed to us not only in the written words of Scripture, but also in Sacred Tradition. The Church’s teaching on the command, “Thou shalt not kill,” is that “no one can under any circumstance claim for himself the right directly to destroy an innocent human being” (CCC 2258).
  3. We need to remember that there is a “coherence of truths of the faith” (CCC 113). This means that our faith is not self-contradicting. We cannot say it was morally acceptable for the Israelites to kill innocent people then, but that it is no longer acceptable in our day.
So if God is good, and it’s never morally acceptable to intentionally destroy an innocent person, how are we to understand this? Consider what St. Augustine said about difficult passages of Scripture:


We know it’s never morally acceptable to intentionally kill innocent persons. We also know that God is all good. So what was God asking Israel to do in this passage? Was he calling them to act in an evil way by killing innocent persons? Two other stories in Scripture should help to answer this question.

Abraham, God, and Sodom (Genesis 18-19)

In this story, Abraham is like a defense attorney pleading for clemency on behalf of Sodom (a city with some serious problems, as we learn in Genesis 19). Abraham asks God,


Abraham affirms that God is just, and it’s unjust to kill righteous persons. So Abraham asks God if he would spare Sodom if there were fifty, forty, thirty, or ten righteous people in Sodom. In each instance God says that he “will spare the whole place for their sake.” From this we learn that God is indeed just, and he will not kill the innocent. As the Catechism says, “God is infinitely good and all his works are good” (CCC 385). “God is in no way, directly or indirectly, the cause of moral evil” (CCC 311). The interesting thing is that God does end up destroying Sodom in Genesis 19. Does that mean there wasn’t a single righteous person among them? Were there no innocent children? Or is there something more to this scene? Let’s look at our next story and see how it can help explain what might be happening.

The Battle of Jericho (Joshua 6)

Jericho was a city within the Promised Land spoken of in Deuteronomy 7; part of a nation that was to be “utterly destroyed.” In the book of Joshua we see Israel besiege and attack Jericho “putting to the sword all living creatures in the city: men and women, young and old, as well as oxen, sheep and donkeys” (Joshua 6:21). What is happening here? A literalistic interpretation of this passage brings us back to where we started: It would seem God was commanding the death of the innocent, including the young. But is this the only possible way to interpret this text? When we read Scripture, it’s important to distinguish between a literal and a literalistic interpretation of a text. The literalist interprets every word of Scripture as literal, historical truth; and does not distinguish among the various types of writing found in Scripture—including poetry and metaphor.

Poussin_Nicolas_-_The_Victory_of_Joshua_over_the_Amalekites_copy


A literal understanding of Scripture recognizes that “truth is differently presented and expressed in the various types of historical writing” (CCC 110). Is the author of Joshua really intending to say that every single living creature in Jericho was utterly destroyed, including innocent children? The problem with this view is that the story itself has an exception to Jericho’s utter destruction. Rahab and her family are spared (see Joshua 6:25). Is it possible that in these examples the sense of utter destruction was not meant to be understood literally, but was used as an expression? Could this refer to a great—but not total—devastation? We use similar expressions frequently. For example, if I described a comedy I really enjoyed and said “I was dying of laughter,” you wouldn’t begin thinking that I was literally dying. You know that’s just an expression for how funny something was. So too, the idea that “every living creature” in Jericho was killed is quite possibly just an expression.

What’s Deuteronomy Calling Israel to Do?

We know from Abraham’s conversation with God that God does not punish the innocent. So it’s not likely Deuteronomy intended to say that God was commanding the death of everyone. In fact, Deuteronomy goes on to say, “You shall not make marriages with them, giving your daughters to their sons or taking their daughters for your sons” (Deuteronomy 7:3). Why would Deuteronomy need to forbid intermarriage with these nations if they were to be utterly destroyed? There would be no one left to marry among them. It’s more likely that the phrase “utterly destroy” was used as an expression.

Perhaps it was intended to describe a complete victory for Israel; a victory that meant separating themselves from anything that might get in the way of their relationship with God. Actually, that’s the reason Deuteronomy gives for this command, “For [the nations] would turn your sons from following me to serving other gods, and then the anger of the LORD would flare up against you and he would quickly destroy you” (Deuteronomy 7:4). This interpretation would mean that God did not command evil. Rather he commanded Israel to avoid evil by removing those temptations that might lead them astray. Christ uses a similar expression in the New Testament to describe avoiding sin:


Christ is not speaking literally. He’s using an expression to illustrate the severity of what he is saying. So the lesson here is, don’t literally cut off your hand, pluck out your eye, or lay waste to a nation. Instead, remove those things in your life that draw you away from the Lord. It’s better to separate yourself from those things than to find yourself separated from God.
This is classic confirmation bias.

Are you at all familiar with Cognitive Bias?

I find it to be fascinating and often illuminating.

 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
This is classic confirmation bias.
Can you explain why you think it is confirmation bias?

Confirmation bias, also called confirmatory bias or myside bias,[Note 1] is the tendency to search for, interpret, favor, and recall information in a way that confirms one's preexisting beliefs or hypotheses, while giving disproportionately less consideration to alternative possibilities.[1] It is a type of cognitive bias and a systematic error of inductive reasoning. People display this bias when they gather or remember information selectively, or when they interpret it in a biased way.

Confirmation bias - Wikipedia
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
“God is love”
It smells crafty, did Jesus/Yeshua-the truthful Israelite Messiah ever say these words exactly, please, right??
If yes, then anybody kindly quote from Yeshua in first person, please, right?
If not, then, isn't it yet another accusation against Yeshua-the truthful Israelite Messiah, please, right??

Regards
 
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