Do You Favor Belief Over Knowledge and Curiosity?

[Subduction Zone]

*smiles* You are afforded the same amount of courtesy you offer your peers in this forum.

Either support your claim or don't. It's of no consequence to me.

I always try to be polite to my peers. Unfortunately when they get rude I sometimes respond in the same manner.

 

[Audie]

When Bible speaks of Tyre that should be ruins, it speaks about the island city that is ruins.

The city that is on the continent, is not same thing and Bible is not speaking same thing about the daughter city(ies).

They shall destroy the walls of Tyre, and break down her towers: I will also scrape her dust from her, and make her a bare rock. She shall be a place for the spreading of nets in the midst of the sea (<= island); for I have spoken it, says the Lord Yahweh; and she shall become a spoil to the nations. Her daughters who are in the field shall be slain with the sword: and they shall know that I am Yahweh.
Eze. 26:4-6

There was a fortified city of Tyre, that was destroyed
twice, and has not since been rebuilt.

The island was only far enough offshore as to provide
a moat, but now it is peninsula fully connected to
the mainland.

"in the midst of the sea" is not fulfilled, it is solidly
connected to the land, has been since before the
fell.

"bare rock" is clearly nor fulfilled, as any fool can
see looking at a photo.

Considerable wall is still standing, too, yet another
not correct.

Whether Tyre has been rebuilt, you can argue.
No city is now present on top of the old ruins.
(not scraped bare rock)

But then, modern Athens does not occupy the
ruins of ancient Athens. Nor Rome, theirs.

Her daughters who are in the field shall be slain with the sword: and they shall know that I am Yahweh.

And again your "god" is portrayed as quite the charmer.

 

[Audie]

I always try to be polite to my peers. Unfortunately when they get rude I sometimes respond in the same manner.

you know they say that you'll reap what you're sowing.

 

[Avoice1C]

Continually reinterpreting is not an honest approach to the Bible. Sooner or later you need to be honest and admit that it is full of flaws. It may still have a valid message but if you waste so much time defending the obvious flaws in the Bible you will probably miss that.

As I pointed out before we know that the Noah's Ark story is pretty much pure fantasy. There may have been a real flood that inspired it but that is as far as it goes. And there there are the amazing number of failed prophecies in the Bible. The worst of the Old Testament's being the Tyre prophesy. If you can't admit that is a failed prophesy then you lose the ability to call yourself an honest Christian.

As I pointed out before we know that the Noah's Ark story is pretty much pure fantasy. There may have been a real flood that inspired it but that is as far as it goes. And there there are the amazing number of failed prophecies in the Bible. The worst of the Old Testament's being the Tyre prophesy. If you can't admit that is a failed prophesy then you lose the ability to call yourself an honest Christian.

The prophesy you speak of is in Isaiah 24 and has not happened yet. But then neither has the sun become unbearably hot and bright in the sky. The end times; The Day of YHWH has not occurred yet. Though we are on the way. The Bible is pretty specific about what will happen and It has not happened yet. Tyre will undergo some tribulation for 70 years after that her wares will be Jehovah’s.

The Bible is not as full of flaws as you think. I’ve been testing it for 50 years or so. The flood is one I cannot explain … yet!

 

[Avoice1C]

Oh honestly, you "know" that. IF there is a "He"
he'd know what it says, but would scarcely need to
read it.

I gathered from your writing that you wanted to know more about God, not that God wanted to know more about "Himself".

 

[Audie]

I gathered from your writing that you wanted to know more about God, not that God wanted to know more about "Himself".

Uh...maybe don't, like try to interpret the bible?


Not till you get better at plain talk, I cant even guess how you came up with that! (those)

 

[Subduction Zone]

As I pointed out before we know that the Noah's Ark story is pretty much pure fantasy. There may have been a real flood that inspired it but that is as far as it goes. And there there are the amazing number of failed prophecies in the Bible. The worst of the Old Testament's being the Tyre prophesy. If you can't admit that is a failed prophesy then you lose the ability to call yourself an honest Christian.

The prophesy you speak of is in Isaiah 24 and has not happened yet. But then neither has the sun become unbearably hot and bright in the sky. The end times; The Day of YHWH has not occurred yet. Though we are on the way. The Bible is pretty specific about what will happen and It has not happened yet. Tyre will undergo some tribulation for 70 years after that her wares will be Jehovah’s.

The Bible is not as full of flaws as you think. I’ve been testing it for 50 years or so. The flood is one I cannot explain … yet!

How do you deal with the Tyre prophecy, that was not the one that you linked to. It was to a specific person and it failed. In fact that is a two fer. And there are some reasonable rules for a "Biblical prophesy". For example I can predict that they next time you drive on the road you will see a red car. When that prophecy is fulfilled it would not qualify as a "Biblical" prophesy since it is expected. You would expect to see a red car when you go out since it is one of the most popular car colors out there.

 

[Avoice1C]

How do you deal with the Tyre prophecy, that was not the one that you linked to. It was to a specific person and it failed. In fact that is a two fer. And there are some reasonable rules for a "Biblical prophesy". For example I can predict that they next time you drive on the road you will see a red car. When that prophecy is fulfilled it would not qualify as a "Biblical" prophesy since it is expected. You would expect to see a red car when you go out since it is one of the most popular car colors out there.

Give me chapter and verse and I'll get back with you.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Give me chapter and verse and I'll get back with you.

It is a long and detailed one that starts in Ezekiel 26 and goes through Ezekiel 28:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+26&version=NIV

I am surprised that you have not heard of it. Supposedly the island of Tyre was to be totally destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar. Never to be found or inhabited again. It is a prophecy that can be refuted with Google Maps. Here it is:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/T...f0e3fc6fb997408!8m2!3d33.2704888!4d35.2037641

 

[Avoice1C]

Uh...maybe don't, like try to interpret the bible?


Not till you get better at plain talk, I cant even guess how you came up with that! (those)

Audie wrote the following quote: "Of course, if there were a book by / about the Creator,
it would behoove to study it, i suppose- if that is what it
wanted. Or who knows, something important might
be learned."
This is where I got that you might be interested in a book written by/about the Creator. That would be the Bible IMO.

 

[Audie]

Audie wrote the following quote: "Of course, if there were a book by / about the Creator,
it would behoove to study it, i suppose- if that is what it
wanted. Or who knows, something important might
be learned."
This is where I got that you might be interested in a book written by/about the Creator. That would be the Bible IMO.

Ahh, that. Hey, I was being kinda snarky which
was uncalled for and I apologize.

You are still some off, tho-

The topic was if a creator of the universe was somehow
detected, what might be an appropriate (if anything)
response to that knowledge?

Then, I said, that if there were a book about it,
that might be important to read.

That was two "ifs",

The bible is about God, in your opinion;
in mine, it is not. Or, at least, not one
that actually exists.

I have read it, often know it better than
some Christians I have spoken to.

But to me, the god in there is just
a character in a semi-historical novel,
not something real.

Thanks for looking up the quote, and
asking.

 

[1213]

"in the midst of the sea" is not fulfilled, it is solidly connected to the land, has been since before the fell.

Could you please give some source for that information? If the place you are talking has always been connected to continent, then it is not the same Tyre Bible is talking about.

"bare rock" is clearly nor fulfilled, as any fool can

I don’t think Bible tells that it will always be “bare rock” and dust never comes back.

Considerable wall is still standing, too, yet another not correct.

I think Bible is talking about city wall/barrier. Can you show picture of the old city wall?

And again your "god" is portrayed as quite the charmer.

Yeah, and you still have no fear. So, clearly it is not so bad, because God ends only evilness.

 

[1213]

Wrong, for you it might be a belief because you do not understand it. For me and countless others it is knowledge. Knowledge is demonstrable, mere belief is not. And it has been confirmed by the scientific method. Where did you get the crazy idea from that I could not be confirmed?

If evolution would be true and real property of species, it could be repeated. We could choose animal that reproduces fast and then try to make it to evolve to something different. For example, mouse in to small whale. You probably think it is ridiculous idea and say, evolution don’t work that way. And I agree with you, it doesn’t work.

It was to be bare rock and only a place for the spreading of nets. And yes, the ruins that you posted is proof positive that it was not scraped clean. Once again, only a small part of Tyre is ruins. Just as part of Rome is ruins.

And the part that is ruins, is the part that existed in that time Bible is talking about. If later people have built new things near the old town, it is not the same thing.

 

[1213]

↑
...
I notice you cleverly omitted the rest of the line
"make her a bare rock." That is cheating.

You do know the difference between a bare rock,
and one like this?
https://www.google.com/search?q=cit...5#imgdii=KhrOkUcC0BpykM:&imgrc=LAOdbMKrG6xpaM:
...

Does the Bible tells that there will never grow any plant, after it was bare rock?

 

[Audie]

Does the Bible tells that there will never grow any plant, after it was bare rock?

I am not going to just "ghost" you, and not reply.
However, I find your responses to be so unreasonable
and ill informed that I've no further patience.
I wish you well.

 

[Avoice1C]

It is a long and detailed one that starts in Ezekiel 26 and goes through Ezekiel 28:

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Ezekiel+26&version=NIV

I am surprised that you have not heard of it. Supposedly the island of Tyre was to be totally destroyed by Nebuchadnezzar. Never to be found or inhabited again. It is a prophecy that can be refuted with Google Maps. Here it is:

https://www.google.com/maps/place/T...f0e3fc6fb997408!8m2!3d33.2704888!4d35.2037641

https://www.britannica.com/place/Tyre

Unless you have other sources than I do, there is no way to tell what happened to the king of Tyre during the Nebuchadnezzar II attack or Alexander the Great’s

As you can see from the picture of Tyre’s pillars, its wall was never rebuilt. The remains of the Phoenician culture were never rebuilt and as Britannica.com says Sur has not recovered the prominence of the original Tyre.

While it was not Nebuchadnezzar II that destroyed it, Alexander the Great did and used the block to build a causeway to the Island portion of the City. I figured that the Island was used for drying fish for a while after Alexander’s conquest of the City.

Google Maps shows a smattering of Islands too small for any development off the coast of Sur. Eze 27:28 When they hear the cries of your pilots, the mainland coasts will tremble.

The city of Sur is on the mainland, is it not. The bits of Island I see in Google Earth could not sustain a ship let alone a fleet of them.

 

[Avoice1C]

Ahh, that. Hey, I was being kinda snarky which
was uncalled for and I apologize.

You are still some off, tho-

The topic was if a creator of the universe was somehow
detected, what might be an appropriate (if anything)
response to that knowledge?

Then, I said, that if there were a book about it,
that might be important to read.

That was two "ifs",

The bible is about God, in your opinion;
in mine, it is not. Or, at least, not one
that actually exists.

I have read it, often know it better than
some Christians I have spoken to.

But to me, the god in there is just
a character in a semi-historical novel,
not something real.

Thanks for looking up the quote, and
asking.

The Bible is quite historical and archaeologists are uncovering more and more evidence that the Bible is right about almost everything. The problem archaeologists have is the exact location and timeframe for some of the events. You are welcome to your opinion. I prefer to look up posts I question. It is better than trying to remember the quote and the meaning I get may not be what the writer meant as in this case.

 

[Subduction Zone]

https://www.britannica.com/place/Tyre

Unless you have other sources than I do, there is no way to tell what happened to the king of Tyre during the Nebuchadnezzar II attack or Alexander the Great’s

As you can see from the picture of Tyre’s pillars, its wall was never rebuilt. The remains of the Phoenician culture were never rebuilt and as Britannica.com says Sur has not recovered the prominence of the original Tyre.

While it was not Nebuchadnezzar II that destroyed it, Alexander the Great did and used the block to build a causeway to the Island portion of the City. I figured that the Island was used for drying fish for a while after Alexander’s conquest of the City.

Google Maps shows a smattering of Islands too small for any development off the coast of Sur. Eze 27:28 When they hear the cries of your pilots, the mainland coasts will tremble.

The city of Sur is on the mainland, is it not. The bits of Island I see in Google Earth could not sustain a ship let alone a fleet of them.

You misunderstood your own source. Sur is simply the Arabic name for Tyre. They are one and the same. Nebby never defeated Tyre, it even admits it later on in Zeke's book. Zeke himself admitted to a failed prophecy. So what did he do? He immediately made another prophecy that failed.

The walls of Tyre were taken down by Alexander the Great. He built a causeway out to the island and attacked from that. The causeway caused a change in the local current and filled in so that now Tyre is no longer an island but now a peninsula connected to land by an isthmus. The island itself is still there. It was rebuilt except for ruins, that were not "scraped clean" that are preserved for historical reasons.

The prophecy failed abysmally. The fact that another finally defeated Tyre was not a fulfillment. During Nebby's time Tyre had been attacked and defeated in the past and was expected to be attacked in the future. That someone eventually succeed was to be expected. You denigrate all prophecies to the point of being worthless is you lower the bar that far.

 

[Avoice1C]

You misunderstood your own source. Sur is simply the Arabic name for Tyre. They are one and the same. Nebby never defeated Tyre, it even admits it later on in Zeke's book. Zeke himself admitted to a failed prophecy. So what did he do? He immediately made another prophecy that failed.

The walls of Tyre were taken down by Alexander the Great. He built a causeway out to the island and attacked from that. The causeway caused a change in the local current and filled in so that now Tyre is no longer an island but now a peninsula connected to land by an isthmus. The island itself is still there. It was rebuilt except for ruins, that were not "scraped clean" that are preserved for historical reasons.

The prophecy failed abysmally. The fact that another finally defeated Tyre was not a fulfillment. During Nebby's time Tyre had been attacked and defeated in the past and was expected to be attacked in the future. That someone eventually succeed was to be expected. You denigrate all prophecies to the point of being worthless is you lower the bar that far.

I know sur is another name for Tyre. It is no longer a kingship. The isthmus is not evident in the pictures on Google Maps. What I don't know and cannot find is what happened to the king of Tyre in either case; what you call Nebby nor Alexander. I don't think Alexander was that concerned about historical reasons but I'm not that familiar with the history of either leader. I don't feel that I denigrate or devalue prophesy. I do seek to explain what Ezekiel might have misunderstood if just shown the ruins by God. Though Ezekiel does quote God.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I know sur is another name for Tyre. It is no longer a kingship. The isthmus is not evident in the pictures on Google Maps. What I don't know and cannot find is what happened to the king of Tyre in either case; what you call Nebby nor Alexander. I don't think Alexander was that concerned about historical reasons but I'm not that familiar with the history of either leader. I don't feel that I denigrate or devalue prophesy. I do seek to explain what Ezekiel might have misunderstood if just shown the ruins by God. Though Ezekiel does quote God.

The Bible tells you what happened when Nebby attacked. He failed. And you do not understand how prophecies fail. If you don't go in understanding that you will never understand how prophecies fail in the Bible.

And you really should read the entire Tyre prophesy. Zeke admits that he failed. And then to make matters worse he made another failed prophesy.