Do You Favor Belief Over Knowledge and Curiosity?

[nPeace]

The dictionary can only tell you how people generally use the word. Why do you think I compared knowledge to perfection? Just because people have a definition of perfection doesn't mean its achievable. I understand what people mean when they say knowledge. I understand that its a word.

Now try to hand me an actual response. How do you tell the difference between something you know and something you believe you know? Good luck with that.

Imo, they can be both the same, but one can also be reality.
For example, if while hammering a nail into wood, I accidentally hit my thumb, I believe I missed the nail, and hit my thumb.
The fact that I dropped the hammer, grab my thumb, and yell, tells me that is true, because I know I am experiencing pain... or something terrible - whatever that is in reality.

 

[1213]

But you appear to have blinded yourself. And when have atheists ever claimed the truth to be falsehood?

Many atheists, maybe all of them, claim Bible is false. But they have nothing to back up that claim. And I see it is correct in all things I can check.

 

[Audie]

Many atheists, maybe all of them, claim Bible is false. But they have nothing to back up that claim. And I see it is correct in all things I can check.

Nope. NOBODY except a total lunatic says that
the whole bible is false.

Of course there were Hebrews. And Egypt.
Babylon, Locusts. Lots of stuff.

YOU have nothing to back up your claim against
atheists.

And of courrse, we've nothing to back a claim that
"the bible is false", because parts are true and parts
false.

Now, if you want to discuss the false parts, we can do
that. There is far more to back up the true statement
that parts of the bible are false than you could
possibly ever want to try to deal with.

 

[Sir Doom]

Imo, they can be both the same, but one can also be reality.
For example, if while hammering a nail into wood, I accidentally hit my thumb, I believe I missed the nail, and hit my thumb.
The fact that I dropped the hammer, grab my thumb, and yell, tells me that is true, because I know I am experiencing pain... or something terrible - whatever that is in reality.

And I bet you would still assert that you 'know how to use a hammer' despite clear evidence to the contrary.

So, if you don't drop the hammer, or grab your thumb or yell... are you still in pain?
Or, conversely, if you don't hit your thumb at all and still drop the hammer, grab your thumb and yell... are you still in pain?

Its all internal. You can assert what you know based on a hypothetical if you like, but that doesn't do anything for me. You're just making up a scenario and deciding how it will turn out. That's not knowledge that's imagination.

 

[nPeace]

And I bet you would still assert that you 'know how to use a hammer' despite clear evidence to the contrary.

So, if you don't drop the hammer, or grab your thumb or yell... are you still in pain?
Or, conversely, if you don't hit your thumb at all and still drop the hammer, grab your thumb and yell... are you still in pain?

Its all internal. You can assert what you know based on a hypothetical if you like, but that doesn't do anything for me. You're just making up a scenario and deciding how it will turn out. That's not knowledge that's imagination.

Man, it was a joke.
We all know when we are in pain.
We all know when a liquid spurts out our body - we call it blood.
I don't think we need to complicate life any more than it is complicated.

Let's keep things simple, for the children's sake... me included.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Many atheists, maybe all of them, claim Bible is false. But they have nothing to back up that claim. And I see it is correct in all things I can check.

Then you have never checked.

 

[Sir Doom]

Man, it was a joke.
We all know when we are in pain.
We all know when a liquid spurts out our body - we call it blood.
I don't think we need to complicate life any more than it is complicated.

Let's keep things simple, for the children's sake... me included.

Yes, but its clear you don't know what I'm saying or you wouldn't have responded with this.

Consider how knowledge has betrayed you in this instance and compare it to the statements above.

Do you know? Or do you just think its true? Pain is totally confined to your brain. It exists nowhere else. It is an experience you have. You use the word effectively, I'm sure. Its designed to communicate what you mean to someone else. Do they feel your pain when you tell them you had pain? Do you re-feel it yourself? You can't remember what its like to feel the pain you felt 10 minutes ago, I'd wager. Not accurately anyway. The further from the event you get, the more surreal the memory becomes. How could it be knowledge if it just dissipates with time like that?

Do I believe my eyes? Yes. Does that mean I know they don't betray me? No. In fact, they frequently do betray me. Ever seen a 3 as an 8? That means everything my eyes show me is suspect. I can combine my various senses and get a better picture, of course but each one has the same failings. Getting lots of imperfect answers is still an imperfect answer. If I can mistrust my own senses imagine how the words of others fair?

As I said, knowledge is like perfection. Something to strive for despite never being able to attain it.

 

[Avoice1C]

Those are some thoughts. What do you think?

(Other than that I've a habit of going for the jugular
vein)

I think you need to read the New Testament again if you want to know God through the Saviour He sent. OT is written through prophets trying to make sense, within the time that they lived, of what they were told by God and their ancestors. I apologize for being less informed than I should be.

 

[Audie]

I think you need to read the New Testament again if you want to know God through the Saviour He sent. OT is written through prophets trying to make sense, within the time that they lived, of what they were told by God and their ancestors. I apologize for being less informed than I should be.

I think you need to read the New Testament again if you want to know God through the Saviour He sent. OT is written through prophets trying to make sense, within the time that they lived, of what they were told by God and their ancestors. I apologize for being less informed than I should be.

If you dont care to think about what I said, that is your deal.

As for me and the N T, I dont care to resd it once again. Or
the OT. Dont make the mistake of assuning I dont
know scripture.

 

[nPeace]

Yes, but its clear you don't know what I'm saying or you wouldn't have responded with this.

Consider how knowledge has betrayed you in this instance and compare it to the statements above.

Do you know? Or do you just think its true? Pain is totally confined to your brain. It exists nowhere else. It is an experience you have. You use the word effectively, I'm sure. Its designed to communicate what you mean to someone else. Do they feel your pain when you tell them you had pain? Do you re-feel it yourself? You can't remember what its like to feel the pain you felt 10 minutes ago, I'd wager. Not accurately anyway. The further from the event you get, the more surreal the memory becomes. How could it be knowledge if it just dissipates with time like that?

Do I believe my eyes? Yes. Does that mean I know they don't betray me? No. In fact, they frequently do betray me. Ever seen a 3 as an 8? That means everything my eyes show me is suspect. I can combine my various senses and get a better picture, of course but each one has the same failings. Getting lots of imperfect answers is still an imperfect answer. If I can mistrust my own senses imagine how the words of others fair?

As I said, knowledge is like perfection. Something to strive for despite never being able to attain it.

Uh... I'll be in my playhouse for the next few years. I'll let you know when I'm old enough to understand what you just said.
In the meantime, carry on smartly.... Unless Ah ha! Unless you can prove to me that your idea is worthy of note. Is there a way you can prove this idea?

 

[Sir Doom]

Proof is even less realistic than knowledge, but if you mean scientific proof then I would submit that it is well known that our brain is capable of 'filling in the gaps' of our vision. This is why 3 sometimes seems to be 8. They look very similar and our brain regularly fudges the details in order to make a seamless picture. Consider various optical illusions that trick your brain into seeing lines or boxes that aren't really there (I'll post examples when I'm not on my phone) these all work on the same principle. Your eyes receive two separate pictures upside down and reversed and resolves them into one seamless 'vision'.

Your eyes need to trick you into seeing what is right in front if you. If that is true, then how can they really be trusted? And that's just vision.

 

[nPeace]

Proof is even less realistic than knowledge, but if you mean scientific proof then I would submit that it is well known that our brain is capable of 'filling in the gaps' of our vision. This is why 3 sometimes seems to be 8. They look very similar and our brain regularly fudges the details in order to make a seamless picture. Consider various optical illusions that trick your brain into seeing lines or boxes that aren't really there (I'll post examples when I'm not on my phone) these all work on the same principle. Your eyes receive two separate pictures upside down and reversed and resolves them into one seamless 'vision'.

Your eyes need to trick you into seeing what is right in front if you. If that is true, then how can they really be trusted? And that's just vision.

Why do you think this is true knowledge?

I would submit that it is well known that our brain is capable of 'filling in the gaps' of our vision.

Is it because scientist said it?
What if it change tomorrow, what would you say then?

This is why I know you are not able to prove your concept.
We can only accept what our limited minds are able to determine to be truth. Outside of that, we just have to wait...

 

[Sir Doom]

Why do you think this is true knowledge?

Because, as I've said, I'm convinced it's true. That is the difference between knowledge and belief. Conviction. As stated.

Is it because scientist said it?
What if it change tomorrow, what would you say then?

I would still stick by the principle that I never really knew it to begin with. Just like right now. Did you miss that part?

This is why I know you are not able to prove your concept.

As I said. Proof is even less realistic than knowledge. I am not trying to prove anything because that isn't possible. There is what we call scientific proof, which is a strategy for mitigating a vast array of human factors that can skew the interpretation of results. I find people who follow this method to be more convincing than those that don't. Simple as that.

We can only accept what our limited minds are able to determine to be truth. Outside of that, we just have to wait...

Dude, that IS my concept. You just agreed with me entirely.

 

[nPeace]

Because, as I've said, I'm convinced it's true. That is the difference between knowledge and belief. Conviction. As stated.



I would still stick by the principle that I never really knew it to begin with. Just like right now. Did you miss that part?



As I said. Proof is even less realistic than knowledge. I am not trying to prove anything because that isn't possible. There is what we call scientific proof, which is a strategy for mitigating a vast array of human factors that can skew the interpretation of results. I find people who follow this method to be more convincing than those that don't. Simple as that.



Dude, that IS my concept. You just agreed with me entirely.

Great! We are settled then.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Great! We are settled then.

So you realize that all you have is belief where your opponents have knowledge. We might be making progress.

 

[nPeace]

So you realize that all you have is belief where your opponents have knowledge. We might be making progress.

Conviction - a firmly held belief or opinion.

 

[Sir Doom]

So you realize that all you have is belief where your opponents have knowledge. We might be making progress.

Lol, I wouldn't start counting chickens just yet.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Conviction - a firmly held belief or opinion.

A firmly held belief is still merely a belief. That does not give it any authority. Knowledge trumps belief. Many children have a conviction when it comes to a belief in Santa Claus. Your beliefs are not that different from theirs.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Lol, I wouldn't start counting chickens just yet.

I am ever the optimist, but I usually only get to 1 or 2 before I have to start all over again. I don't think I even got to "1" this time around.

 

[nPeace]

A firmly held belief is still merely a belief. That does not give it any authority. Knowledge trumps belief. Many children have a conviction when it comes to a belief in Santa Claus. Your beliefs are not that different from theirs.

So what was your point here?